Fire Zimmer Now!!!

[Doomsday101]

Funny thing is....I am not a big Zimmer fan and nobody has shown me any reason why I should be.

Parcells took over the scheme and the personnel. And this is supposed to make me change my position on Zimmer ?

I suppose next someone will be telling me that 2+3 = 12

Bill trusted him to do the job and he has been doing the job. Bill oversee every aspect of this team as most head coaches do but the coordinators are the guys who are working with their group day in and day out.

 

[Yeagermeister]

My Madden team hasn't given up any td's.....hire me as DC

 

[Doomsday101]

My Madden team hasn't given up any td's.....hire me as DC

And I won the NASCAR Championship 3 years in a row in the same year. LOL

 

[Mike 1967]

Bill trusted him to do the job and he has been doing the job. Bill oversee every aspect of this team as most head coaches do but the coordinators are the guys who are working with their group day in and day out.

Yes...Bill obviously has faith in Zimmer organizational skills and work ethic. Zimmer is doing a good job of overseeing the defense that Bill is building. But Zimmer is in no way the catalyst behind the changes that we have seen. To say that is....well...simply ludicrous.

But...not every coach dictates the scheme or personnel on the defensive side of the ball.

In fact, most head coaches are either defensive leaning or offensive leaning. I would have to say that Big Bill is a defensive leaning coach.

Lovey Smith (Chicago) would be an example of a defensive minded coach. Mike Martz was an example of an offensive minded coach.

 

[Yeagermeister]

And I won the NASCAR Championship 3 years in a row in the same year. LOL

Does Jack Roush know about this? He could have saved himself the misery of doing a reality show :laugh2:

 

[Mike 1967]

The ironic and funny thing is that Zimmer was fired. He was fired at the end of last year.

If the defense was a department inside of a corporation...then the analogy would go like this.

- Zimmer was the manager of that department last year.
- But the CEO came in this year and took over the department because of lackluster performance.
- Zimmer still has the title...but the management of the department is being directly dictated by the CEO.
- Zimmer is now managing the day to day operations of the department per the direction of the CEO.

Hopefully Zimmer will become a better manager after gaining experience under the CEO's tutelage.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yes...Bill obviously has faith in Zimmer organizational skills and work ethic. Zimmer is doing a good job of overseeing the defense that Bill is building. But Zimmer is in no way the catalyst behind the changes that we have seen. To say that is....well...simply ludicrous.

But...not every coach dictates the scheme or personnel on the defensive side of the ball.

In fact, most head coaches are either defensive leaning or offensive leaning. I would have to say that Big Bill is a defensive leaning coach.

Lovey Smith (Chicago) would be an example of a defensive minded coach. Mike Martz was an example of an offensive minded coach.

Same could have been said about Erine Stautner when he was DC of the Cowboys. Tom as HC of course is going to run the style of defense he wants which was the flex but the Coordinator still has to get these guys ready to play each week. My point is Zimmer is doing the job he is paid to do and has been doing a very good job. Bill told Zimmer learn the 3-4 and Zimmer has done that

 

[Mike 1967]

Same could have been said about Erine Stautner when he was DC of the Cowboys. Tom as HC of course is going to run the style of defense he wants which was the flex but the Coordinator still has to get these guys ready to play each week. My point is Zimmer is doing the job he is paid to do and has been doing a very good job. Bill told Zimmer learn the 3-4 and Zimmer has done that

That is exacty why Tom's is a household name and Erine Stautners is not.

Zimmer appears to be a very good "worker". But Zimmer does not appear to be a very good "leader".

I believe that this defense would still be where it is without Zimmer. But I do not believe that this defense would be where it is without Parcells. Parcells is the Catalyst...not Zimmer.

Again.....the only reason that I bring this up is in response to the original point of this originator of this thread. "Fire Zimmer Now"....the context being that where are all those idiots that were calling for Zimmers head.

This is an assinine statement that I am simply rebuffing. I am not trying to slam Zimmer. I am simply making the obvious argument that it is Parcells that should get the credit for the turnaround....not Zimmer.

I am not saying that Zimmer is not a good fit for the current job. That job being the mid-level manager of Parcells defense.

 

[AdamJT13]

The ironic and funny thing is that Zimmer was fired. He was fired at the end of last year.

If the defense was a department inside of a corporation...then the analogy would go like this.

- Zimmer was the manager of that department last year.
- But the CEO came in this year and took over the department because of lackluster performance.
- Zimmer still has the title...but the management of the department is being directly dictated by the CEO.
- Zimmer is now managing the day to day operations of the department per the direction of the CEO.

Hopefully Zimmer will become a better manager after gaining experience under the CEO's tutelage.

I don't see it that way at all. All the CEO did was change the overall philosophy of the operation. He didn't take over any of the manager's duties. Zimmer still makes all of the defensive calls.

 

[Doomsday101]

That is exacty why Tom's is a household name and Erine Stautners is not.

Zimmer appears to be a very good "worker". But Zimmer does not appear to be a very good "leader".

I believe that this defense would still be where it is without Zimmer. But I do not believe that this defense would be where it is without Parcells. Parcells is the Catalyst...not Zimmer.

Again.....the only reason that I bring this up is in response to the original point of this originator of this thread. "Fire Zimmer Now"....the context being that where are all those idiots that were calling for Zimmers head.

This is an assinine statement that I am simply rebuffing. I am not trying to slam Zimmer. I am simply making the obvious argument that it is Parcells that should get the credit for the turnaround....not Zimmer.

I am not saying that Zimmer is not a good fit for the current job. That job being the mid-level manager of Parcells defense.

I'll just say I disagree. This mid-level management? This is not an office the Coordinators carry out what the HC demands I give a lot of credit to Bill in all phases of the game after all you think the offense is Paytons offense or does Bill control that as well? If your asking who brought the 3-4 here I agree it was Bill but Zimmer is the man working this unit and is the one making the calls on game day. If the defense fails Zimmer is going to take the blame and if they have success he should and will get credit for the job.

 

[Mike 1967]

I don't see it that way at all. All the CEO did was change the overall philosophy of the operation. He didn't take over any of the manager's duties. Zimmer still makes all of the defensive calls.

Let me be more specific then.

As the manager of a department...I dictate my own departmental policies and procedures. I am simply given a list of responsibilities and expectations by the CEO....it is up to me how I structure my department.

In this analogy I failed to meet those expectations. I did not get fired...but...I no longer establish the processes and procedures of my department. They are dictated directly by the CEO.

The parallel here is obvious. The 3-4 scheme was instituted by Parcells. Zimmer is simply a pupil that is coordinating what Parcells is dictating.

If you want to see an example of a totally reverse situation...then I can offer up two right off the top of my head....Washington and Philadelphia.

 

[phdefense]

or you could say that his defense has given up 4 touchdowns in 5 games despite the fact that he is the DC

I criticise him when the defense is good
2001 top 5
2003 #1
and now in 2005

 

[Mike 1967]

I'll just say I disagree. This mid-level management? This is not an office the Coordinators carry out what the HC demands I give a lot of credit to Bill in all phases of the game after all you think the offense is Paytons offense or does Bill control that as well? If your asking who brought the 3-4 here I agree it was Bill but Zimmer is the man working this unit and is the one making the calls on game day. If the defense fails Zimmer is going to take the blame and if they have success he should and will get credit for the job.

I'll just say your wrong.

Zimmer knew absolutely nothing about the 3-4 scheme this time last year. The math is simple.

 

[Doomsday101]

I'll just say your wrong.

Zimmer knew absolutely nothing about the 3-4 scheme this time last year. The math is simple.

Zimmer never coached the 3-4 to say he know nothing of the 3-4 is stupid, these men in the NFL know and do understand the different schemes out there and the fact that Parcells entrusted him with the change of schemes say a hell of a lot of what Parcells thinks of Zimmer.

 

[Mike 1967]

As far as I'm concerned Zimmer is a non-catalyst in the entire equation.

He may be an excellent organizer and worker....but I do not see any evidence that his is a great defensive mind. And I mean that twofold....I see no evidence of great X's and O's...and I see no evidence of great talent evaluator.

It could be argued that he was simply holding the fort on Jimmy and Campo's defensive schemes.

There was an interesting comment yesterday by one of the announcers...I believe it was Aikman. The announcer stated that the DC for the Cards had worked for the Cowboys under Zimmer. But the DC said that he credited a lot of his success to Campo. There was no mention of Zimmer.

When Parcells came in he did not change the defense. He let the defense ride because of it's previous success...because it had a history of being a pretty good defense. Following last season he admitted this was a mistake and took over the reigns. He implemented his defense.

Now Zimmer is basically holding the fort on Parcells Defense.

 

[Mike 1967]

Zimmer never coached the 3-4 to say he know nothing of the 3-4 is stupid, these men in the NFL know and do understand the different schemes out there and the fact that Parcells entrusted him with the change of schemes say a hell of a lot of what Parcells thinks of Zimmer.

Then Zimmer must be stupid...because that is exactly what he said during the offseason when the change was made.

And Parcells obviously trusts Zimmer to implement the plan that Parcells puts in place. I'm not saying that Zimmer is not a good coach when it comes to organization and work ethic. What I am saying is that the primary factors behind the change in our defense is not Zimmers organization and work ethic. The primary factors are Parcells vision, experience and ability to evaluate talent.

 

[Doomsday101]

As far as I'm concerned Zimmer is a non-catalyst in the entire equation.

He may be an excellent organizer and worker....but I do not see any evidence that his is a great defensive mind. And I mean that twofold....I see no evidence of great X's and O's...and I see no evidence of great talent evaluator.

It could be argued that he was simply holding the fort on Jimmy and Campo's defensive schemes.

There was an interesting comment yesterday by one of the announcers...I believe it was Aikman. The announcer stated that the DC for the Cards had worked for the Cowboys under Zimmer. But the DC said that he credited a lot of his success to Campo. There was no mention of Zimmer.

When Parcells came in he did not change the defense. He let the defense ride because of it's previous success...because it had a history of being a pretty good defense. Following last season he admitted this was a mistake and took over the reigns. He implemented his defense.

Now Zimmer is basically holding the fort on Parcells Defense.

Aikman did not cover the game it was Baldinger and he also talked about the great job by Zimmer and the job he has done

 

[Mike 1967]

Aikman did not cover the game it was Baldinger and he also talked about the great job by Zimmer and the job he has done

That's right...Aikman did the Philly Bronco's game.

But announce aside...he credited Campo for teaching him what he knew. Which fits the picture I see.

 

[Mike 1967]

Zimmer never coached the 3-4 to say he know nothing of the 3-4 is stupid, these men in the NFL know and do understand the different schemes out there and the fact that Parcells entrusted him with the change of schemes say a hell of a lot of what Parcells thinks of Zimmer.

This debate has zero to do with what Parcells thinks about Zimmer. Your getting off track...as usual.

 

[BigDFan5]

Mike who is calling the D plays?