Fire Zimmer Now!!!

[Mike 1967]

So what exactly changed between last season and this season.

Is the change in defensive output because of Zimmers work ethic and organizational skills.

-or-

Is the change in defensive output because of Parcells implementation of his scheme and direct involvement in player personnel decisions to fit that scheme.

Based on the originators comments....It would appear that some here would choose number 1. Surely I am mistaken.

 

[Cbz40]

fire your calculator. mine says .8 TD/ game....

How in the heck do you score .8 TDs/ a game????..........

 

[Doomsday101]

This debate has zero to do with what Parcells thinks about Zimmer. Your getting off track...as usual.

I'm not getting off tract I'm saying Zimmer does share credit for the success of this defense.

 

[Vinnie2u]

That would be Zimmer

 

[Hostile]

What was the original point of the originator of this thread ?

Would be one thing if I just pulled my comments out of thin air. But...I did not. I was simply responding to an obvious attempt to slam those who questioned Zimmer's ability.

I question the logic of that position. Unless I am expected to give Zimmer credit for being under Parcells lead.

The original position of the thread was a sarcastic shot at the anti-Zimmer crowd.

I think you missed the obvious sarcasm of the author. Therefore, you really aren't questioning his position at all.

If the intent you have is to not give Zimmer any credit then I missed that intent myself.

 

[Doomsday101]

So what exactly changed between last season and this season.

Is the change in defensive output because of Zimmers work ethic and organizational skills.

-or-

Is the change in defensive output because of Parcells implementation of his scheme and direct involvement in player personnel decisions to fit that scheme.

Based on the originators comments....It would appear that some here would choose number 1. Surely I am mistaken.

Scheme means nothing if you can't get the players playing at a high level and understanding what their assignments are with in a game or making calls to put them in the best situation. That is the job of a coordinator and exactly what Zimmer does

 

[Hostile]

The ironic and funny thing is that Zimmer was fired. He was fired at the end of last year.

If the defense was a department inside of a corporation...then the analogy would go like this.

- Zimmer was the manager of that department last year.
- But the CEO came in this year and took over the department because of lackluster performance.
- Zimmer still has the title...but the management of the department is being directly dictated by the CEO.
- Zimmer is now managing the day to day operations of the department per the direction of the CEO.

Hopefully Zimmer will become a better manager after gaining experience under the CEO's tutelage.

Zimmer was not fired. He was given the specific task of re-shaping. You don't give a task like that to an incompetent. In other words, clearly the organization believes he is an asset.

 

[Mike 1967]

Mike who is calling the D plays?

That is a good question.

I thought it was the linebacker in the majority of cases. And I thought that was one of the reasons why Nguyen was such a valuable player...because he was good at reading the offense and making the correct call.

And the "correct call" is dictated by the situation. In certain situations, certain defensive schemes are deployed. And the schemes used in those certain situations are ultimately defined by Parcells. So ultimately, Parcells is making the calls...because he is the one that established the definitions. Everyone else, including Zimmer, is simply learning what Parcells has established.

As far as when to blitz. I cannot truly answer that question. But I would bet a large sum of money that Parcells is the primary controller of those reigns.

 

[Mike 1967]

Zimmer was not fired. He was given the specific task of re-shaping. You don't give a task like that to an incompetent. In other words, clearly the organization believes he is an asset.

BS.

Zimmer did not reshape.

Parcells reshaped. Zimmer is simply overseeing what Parcells is building.

Parcells is the architect....Zimmer is simply the contractor. You should understand that analogy from your business experience.

 

[Hostile]

Let me be more specific then.

As the manager of a department...I dictate my own departmental policies and procedures. I am simply given a list of responsibilities and expectations by the CEO....it is up to me how I structure my department.

In this analogy I failed to meet those expectations. I did not get fired...but...I no longer establish the processes and procedures of my department. They are dictated directly by the CEO.

The parallel here is obvious. The 3-4 scheme was instituted by Parcells. Zimmer is simply a pupil that is coordinating what Parcells is dictating.

If you want to see an example of a totally reverse situation...then I can offer up two right off the top of my head....Washington and Philadelphia.

Let's roll with this analogy.

You're the CEO of an organization. You're about to change your operating procedures.

Do you give that task to an incompetent Manager? Or do you give it to your best Manager?

 

[Mike 1967]

Zimmer was not fired. He was given the specific task of re-shaping. You don't give a task like that to an incompetent. In other words, clearly the organization believes he is an asset.

Again...I never said that Zimmer was not an asset.

He is obviously a good overseer. But that does not make him an architect.

I give the architect the praise for a beautiful building....not the contractor who oversee's the day labor.

 

[BigDFan5]

That is a good question.

I thought it was the linebacker in the majority of cases. And I thought that was one of the reasons why Nguyen was such a valuable player...because he was good at reading the offense and making the correct call.

And the "correct call" is dictated by the situation. In certain situations, certain defensive schemes are deployed. And the schemes used in those certain situations are ultimately defined by Parcells. So ultimately, Parcells is making the calls...because he is the one that established the definitions. Everyone else, including Zimmer, is simply learning what Parcells has established.

As far as when to blitz. I cannot truly answer that question. But I would bet a large sum of money that Parcells is the primary controller of those reigns.

So basically in your opinion Zimmer is just a prop and any of us could stand there and the D would be playing just as well.

 

[Mike 1967]

Let's roll with this analogy.

You're the CEO of an organization. You're about to change your operating procedures.

Do you give that task to an incompetent Manager? Or do you give it to your best Manager?

Your analogy does not work.

An accounting manager is not an expert in purchasing. Niether is a purchasing manager an expert in marketing. Niether is a sales manager an expert in materials.

My best manager may very well be my accounting manager. But that does not mean that he is the best choice in establishing purchasing procedures.

In order to establish the best operating procedures for a given department.....that person must be an expert in the disciplines of that department.

If the accounting manager is the best manager to establish operating procedures for the purchasing department...then I'm most probably in trouble.

But in this instance...the CEO has a purchasing background. So the CEO is an expert in the disciplines of purchasing....hence he is the best choice for establishing proceducers for this department.

If we were discussing Spurrier...then we would not be talking about and instance where the HC should be establishing procedures for the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Hostile]

BS.

Zimmer did not reshape.

Parcells reshaped. Zimmer is simply overseeing what Parcells is building.

Parcells is the architect....Zimmer is simply the contractor. You should understand that analogy from your business experience.

You bet I understand it. That's why I am disagreeing with you.

I would never give a task this important to someone incapable of handling it.

Yes, Parcells is the architect. Guess what? Architects don't do the actual work. It's their design, but the builder makes it fly.

 

[Mike 1967]

So basically in your opinion Zimmer is just a prop and any of us could stand there and the D would be playing just as well.

Nope....that is taking my position way out of context in an effort to undermine my argument.

 

[Mike 1967]

You bet I understand it. That's why I am disagreeing with you.

I would never give a task this important to someone incapable of handling it.

Yes, Parcells is the architect. Guess what? Architects don't do the actual work. It's their design, but the builder makes it fly.

You are missing my point. Possibly on purpose in an effort to reshape my argument.

Zimmer is capable of implementing a plan established by Parcells with personnel selected by Parcells.

That is great and much needed....but it in no way means that Zimmer is the catalyst behind the success.

 

[Hostile]

Your analogy does not work.

An accounting manager is not an expert in purchasing. Niether is a purchasing manager an expert in marketing. Niether is a sales manager an expert in materials.

My best manager may very well be my accounting manager. But that does not mean that he is the best choice in establishing purchasing procedures.

In order to establish the best operating procedures for a given department.....that person must be an expert in the disciplines of that department.

If the accounting manager is the best manager to establish operating procedures for the purchasing department...then I'm most probably in trouble.

But in this instance...the CEO has a purchasing background. So the CEO is an expert in the disciplines of purchasing....hence he is the best choice for establishing proceducers for this department.

If we were discussing Spurrier...then we would not be talking about and instance where the HC should be establishing procedures for the defensive side of the ball.

Actually, it's the other way around. Your analogy isn't working.

Parcells himself said in Press Conferences this year that he "gave Zimmer the task of learning everything he could about the 3-4." Why would he say this? My guess is because it was true and he wanted to work with Jeff Ireland and Stephen Jones on the off season acquisitions.

Parcells has further stated since then that Payton and Zimmer call the respective plays. Again, I take him at his word.

You're wanting me to believe that Parcells has people on his staff doing nothing.

No way, no shape, no how.

 

[Trip]

We have a good group of defenders who could succeed in just about any scheme. 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, Nickel, Dime. They are smart. They are versatile. They have decent cohesion. I don't know that we could ask for much more than that.

Don't forget as a whole they're young. I agree, 4-3, 3-4, whatever. These guys can get after the QB, match up man to man on receivers, knock your block off, tackle well, these defenders could succeed in any defense... and most of them have been good in the past in different schemes. Heck they're good right now, and we play both, so....

 

[dwmyers]

We have a good group of defenders who could succeed in just about any scheme. 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, Nickel, Dime. They are smart. They are versatile. They have decent cohesion. I don't know that we could ask for much more than that.

We could ask for a better free safety, maybe

 

[Hostile]

You are missing my point. Possibly on purpose in an effort to reshape my argument.

Zimmer is capable of implementing a plan established by Parcells with personnel selected by Parcells.

That is great and much needed....but it in no way means that Zimmer is the catalyst behind the success.

I never said he was a catalyst. He is certainly an enabler though. If he was incapable of coaching the 3-4 he would not have been given the task. It's really that simple. He clearly wasn't fired. He was told, "here's a new technology, implement it." He did.