Fire Zimmer Now!!!

[BigDFan5]

Nope....that is taking my position way out of context in an effort to undermine my argument.

Were these not your words?

I believe that this defense would still be where it is without Zimmer.

and..

As far as I'm concerned Zimmer is a non-catalyst in the entire equation.

and

Now Zimmer is basically holding the fort on Parcells Defense

 

[Mike 1967]

Actually, it's the other way around. Your analogy isn't working.

Parcells himself said in Press Conferences this year that he "gave Zimmer the task of learning everything he could about the 3-4." Why would he say this? My guess is because it was true and he wanted to work with Jeff Ireland and Stephen Jones on the off season acquisitions.

Parcells has further stated since then that Payton and Zimmer call the respective plays. Again, I take him at his word.

You're wanting me to believe that Parcells has people on his staff doing nothing.

No way, no shape, no how.

LOL...my analogy works perfectly. Just because you fail to see it does not change the fact.

Why would he say this ??? Apparantly because Zimmer did not have a very firm grasp on the scheme that was going to be employed.

Do you actually believe that Zimmer is the architect of the schemes we employ after 1 year of "learning everything he can". Do you actually believe that the selection of Spears, Ware, Furgosun, and Henry were due to Zimmers crash course ?

Zimmer is a manager in training. And any calls Zimmer makes are based off of the preset philosophy that Parcells spoon fed him.

 

[Mike 1967]

Were these not your words?



and..



and

Yep....and your point is what ?

 

[BigDFan5]

Yep....and your point is what ?

So according to your own words, Zimmer means nothing it doesn't matter if he is here or not. Like I said you make it seem like he is nothing like a prop and your own words show that

 

[TwentyOne]

what?! 4 TDs in 5 games!! that averages out to .5 a TD a game!! that's terrible, I agree, fire Zimmer and steal Wolverine's sig

4/5 = 0.5

 

[Mike 1967]

I never said he was a catalyst. He is certainly an enabler though. If he was incapable of coaching the 3-4 he would not have been given the task. It's really that simple. He clearly wasn't fired. He was told, "here's a new technology, implement it." He did.

Perhaps this is where we differ.

Zimmer could very well be a great coach of players. In the context of taking a set of information and teaching it to a team of players. All evidence would indicate that Zimmer is a good coach in that aspect.

But what I am saying is that the X's and O's...and the evaluation of the players is the primary catalyst behind the success. Not Zimmers ability to translate that data into the players.

Zimmer did not need to be fired because Bill Parcells is the master mind behind the defense. IF we had an offensive minded coach...then Zimmer would have been fired.

Zimmer is obviously an important piece of the overall team. BUT....Parcells scheme and talent evalutation is the primary catalyst behind the success.

 

[AdamJT13]

Zimmer did not need to be fired because Bill Parcells is the master mind behind the defense. IF we had an offensive minded coach...then Zimmer would have been fired.

The only way Zimmer would been fired after 2004 is if we had changed head coaches, too, and the new head coach wanted to bring in his own defensive coordinator. Any head coach that was with the team for 2003 and 2004 would know what Zimmer can do and would not have fired him. That's exactly why Parcells never even had an inkling about getting rid of Zimmer. He watched what Zimmer did in 2003 and knew what went wrong in 2004 -- and he knew that it wasn't Zimmer.

 

[Mike 1967]

So according to your own words, Zimmer means nothing it doesn't matter if he is here or not. Like I said you make it seem like he is nothing like a prop and your own words show that

I believe that this defense would still be where it is without Zimmer.

As far as I'm concerned Zimmer is not the catalyst, Parcells is.

And, Zimmer holding the fort on Parcells Defense

But Zimmer appears to be doing a good job of teaching what Parcells is directing.

But at the end of the day I have full confidence that PArcells could locate another good teacher.

Specifically, I believe that Zimmer would be much much easier to replace than Parcells. And I believe that if ours was an offensive minded coach...that Zimmer would need to be replaced.

 

[Mike 1967]

The only way Zimmer would been fired after 2004 is if we had changed head coaches, too, and the new head coach wanted to bring in his own defensive coordinator. Any head coach that was with the team for 2003 and 2004 would know what Zimmer can do and would not have fired him. That's exactly why Parcells never even had an inkling about getting rid of Zimmer. He watched what Zimmer did in 2003 and knew what went wrong in 2004 -- and he knew that it wasn't Zimmer.

Zimmer did not get fired because of what PArcells brought to the table.

Parcells is the defensive mastermind....so he simply needed someone to coach his system. We did not need to go out and get a full blown DC with his own system.

This is why Zimmer was not fired.

 

[AdamJT13]

Zimmer did not get fired because of what PArcells brought to the table.

Parcells is the defensive mastermind....so he simply needed someone to coach his system. We did not need to go out and get a full blown DC with his own system.

This is why Zimmer was not fired.

No, Zimmer didn't get fired because he didn't deserve to be fired. And Parcells knew that.

 

[Mike 1967]

No, Zimmer didn't get fired because he didn't deserve to be fired. And Parcells knew that.

Nope

Zimmer did not get fired because we did not need a full blown DC.

How many times does a team completely change it's Defensive Scheme without changing coordinators ?

We did not need to bring in a new DC because the mastermind behind the new defensive scheme was already here......PARCELLS.

Have you ever considered that maybe Parcells preferred to start from scratch with someone that he could teach. Rather than deal with a new DC that would come to the table with some preset expectations on how to employ the 3-4.

 

[Mike 1967]

No, Zimmer didn't get fired because he didn't deserve to be fired. And Parcells knew that.

Or rather...... YES !

Zimmer did not deserve to get fired because there was no need to bring in a DC that was familiar with the 3-4.....because PArcells already brought that to the table.

 

[Hostile]

Perhaps this is where we differ.

Zimmer could very well be a great coach of players. In the context of taking a set of information and teaching it to a team of players. All evidence would indicate that Zimmer is a good coach in that aspect.

But what I am saying is that the X's and O's...and the evaluation of the players is the primary catalyst behind the success. Not Zimmers ability to translate that data into the players.

Zimmer did not need to be fired because Bill Parcells is the master mind behind the defense. IF we had an offensive minded coach...then Zimmer would have been fired.

Zimmer is obviously an important piece of the overall team. BUT....Parcells scheme and talent evalutation is the primary catalyst behind the success.

This is not meant to offend and I hope it doesn't.

I would hate to work for you.

Let me see if I have this straight. You're Parcells. You have a vision, directive, goal, demand, or whatever you want to call it, to get this team ready to play the 3-4.

You give this task to me. I work my butt off. Project is paying off.

You and only you deserve the pedastal?

Frick that. Give me a team working together any day. Seems pretty clear to me that is exactly what he is doing.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy this at all.

 

[Mike 1967]

This is not meant to offend and I hope it doesn't.

I would hate to work for you.

Let me see if I have this straight. You're Parcells. You have a vision, directive, goal, demand, or whatever you want to call it, to get this team ready to play the 3-4.

You give this task to me. I work my butt off. Project is paying off.

You and only you deserve the pedastal?

Frick that. Give me a team working together any day. Seems pretty clear to me that is exactly what he is doing.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy this at all.

Nice try.

First, Parcells is not taking the pedestal

Second, I did not start this thread. I was simply responding to a point made by the original poster who was obviously giving Zimmer the credit for the defensive change in success.

Third, in my analogy I did not simply give you a vision, directive or goal. I actually wrote the entire ISO quality manual for your department. Specifically, every procedure required to run your deparment.

Good job for following directions and teaching the department the manual that I gave you.

But at the end of the day we all know what drove the change in the department. It has nothing to do with pedestal.

It simply is what it is.

 

[Trip]

LOL...my analogy works perfectly. Just because you fail to see it does not change the fact.

Why would he say this ??? Apparantly because Zimmer did not have a very firm grasp on the scheme that was going to be employed.

Do you actually believe that Zimmer is the architect of the schemes we employ after 1 year of "learning everything he can". Do you actually believe that the selection of Spears, Ware, Furgosun, and Henry were due to Zimmers crash course ?

Zimmer is a manager in training. And any calls Zimmer makes are based off of the preset philosophy that Parcells spoon fed him.

So you believe this years defense is what it is because of Parcells talent evaluation, is that correct? Without the keen eye of Bill, Zimmer could never have a successful defense, right?

 

[Mike 1967]

So you believe this years defense is what it is because of Parcells talent evaluation, is that correct? Without the keen eye of Bill, Zimmer could never have a successful defense, right?

Yes...that is what I believe.

But.....that evaluation included key players like Ellis and Glover who were already on board the team before PArcells arrived on the scene.

PArcells kept some of the players and removed others.

Parcells also selected the defensive players over the last two years. And I believe that he also made selections last year with an eventualy move to the 3-4 in mind.

 

[Trip]

But at the end of the day we all know what drove the change in the department.

And that would be that it is simply what the boss prefers. Not that the 3-4 is any magical formula, or that we've never had any success with the 4-3, it's just what the boss likes.

 

[scottsp]

It would not make much sense to keep a defensive coordinator who was not someone the coach wanted to be part of the staff, particularly one who was not as familiar with a scheme the head coach wished to implement.

Bill Parcells could have gone and got any number of lackeys who had worked with this specific scheme before - coaches who were more familiar with the 3-4. Instead, he opted to go with someone who had not coached this specific defense before at the NFL level.

I don't care how familiar the coach is with the scheme. It makes absolutely no sense to keep a DC around in this situation if he's not valued by the head man. Because if he was not, it would be easy as hell to go get someone who knew the 3-4 better and had worked with it in the league before.

 

[AdamJT13]

Or rather...... YES !

Zimmer did not deserve to get fired because there was no need to bring in a DC that was familiar with the 3-4.....because PArcells already brought that to the table.

Your argument is simply ridiculous. It's as if you think all a defensive coordinator does is decide whether to play a 3-4 or a 4-3 -- and that actually coordinating the defense during a game is irrelevant. Parcells doesn't call the defensive plays, Zimmer does. If Parcells had ANY doubts about Zimmer's ability to coordinate the defense, he absolutely would have brought in a coordinator familiar with the 3-4, who knew how to call a game with a 3-4 defense. But Parcells KNEW that Zimmer is a very good defensive coordinator, so he had no reason to fire him. He knew why a defense that was so good in 2003 dropped off so much in 2004, and it had nothing to do with Zimmer.

If anything, this season proves that Zimmer is a good coordinator no matter what the scheme. Give him a defense that's not ravaged by injuries at key positions, and he'll turn it into one of the league's best.

 

[Mike 1967]

Here is what I believe

- We needed to make a major overhaul of our scheme and/or we needed to do a better job on draft day.

- If we were going to overhaul the Defensive Scheme, then we would need to bring in a new defensive mastermind to implement that scheme. Not count on an existing coordinator to "learn" the new scheme.

- In this instance we did overhaul the sheme and we overhauled the evaluation of players. Specifically we put a new scout management in place and implemented a 3-4 scheme for the first time in Dallas.

- But...Zimmer did not need to be replaced because Parcells was the mastermind behind the 3-4. Even if Parcells had hired a new DC, it would have been one of his old cronies. He would not hired a DC under the pretext that that DC would be the author and mastermind behind the implentation of the new scheme.