First Round Running Backs

[Galian Beast]

I brought him up and you made an incorrect assumption.

Tell us what you really meant then...

 

[waving monkey]

Because we could have been top 5 in rushing with Mcfadden and Morris, Miller and Morris or a 3rd round back and Morris. So unless Zeke can do much better what was the point of wasting the 4th pick on him? We could have used on the defense.

If you think the running game wont be much better with Zeek, well alrighty then.
I'm tired of it'll do mentality

 

[big dog cowboy]

I think you are wrong. I think Zeke gets 25 touches a game and maybe more.

Unlikely.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Tell us what you really meant then...

I have done it multiple times. Murray and to some degree McChicken showed that we dont need a top 5 back in order to dominate in the run game. So unless Zeke can absolutely kill it and at least match what Murray did, then the pick was poor value. You can get a Murray type in rounds 2-4. You can get them in FA. Murray went in FA, Miller, Forte, ect...ect.... Good to very good RB's can be had all over the place.

Does that make it more clear for you? If Zeke runs for 1500 yards and 13 TD's we could have gotten several backs that could have easily done that in this offense. What was the point of burning a 4th pick if it was not for a back that will be all world in this offense? 2000 combined yards and 20 TD's. If you think it is not possible behind this line with Romo then you are mistaken. And if you are thinking they should monitor his carries then why they heck did we draft him at #4. The ONLY way it makes sense is to give the kid all the carries he can handle to maximize his production.

But this all goes back to why you dont take a back at #4 anymore. Because the ONLY way to justify it is to give the kid everything he can handle. And at that rate he will be toast in 5 or 6 years. AGAIN..........longevity of the position is poor.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Unlikely.

Then again, he was a complete waste of a pick. Why would you use a 4th pick on a guy you give the ball to 15 times a game? You dont even make sense at this point.

 

[CowboyRoy]

If you think the running game wont be much better with Zeek, well alrighty then.
I'm tired of it'll do mentality

I never said it wouldnt be better. In fact, I am telling everyone it will be better, and it better be better. If not, this whole zeke thing at 4 was a total waste.

Are you saying that it will better than 2014? It had better be. Personally, I think it definitely will be.

 

[Galian Beast]

I have done it multiple times. Murray and to some degree McChicken showed that we dont need a top 5 back in order to dominate in the run game. So unless Zeke can absolutely kill it and at least match what Murray did, then the pick was poor value. You can get a Murray type in rounds 2-4. You can get them in FA. Murray went in FA, Miller, Forte, ect...ect.... Good to very good RB's can be had all over the place.

Does that make it more clear for you? If Zeke runs for 1500 yards and 13 TD's we could have gotten several backs that could have easily done that in this offense. What was the point of burning a 4th pick if it was not for a back that will be all world in this offense? 2000 combined yards and 20 TD's. If you think it is not possible behind this line with Romo then you are mistaken. And if you are thinking they should monitor his carries then why they heck did we draft him at #4. The ONLY way it makes sense is to give the kid all the carries he can handle to maximize his production.

But this all goes back to why you dont take a back at #4 anymore. Because the ONLY way to justify it is to give the kid everything he can handle. And at that rate he will be toast in 5 or 6 years. AGAIN..........longevity of the position is poor.

We went 4-12 last year.

You're conflating things.

1st McFadden while somewhat productive in crossing the 1000 threshold only had 3 rushing touchdowns last year. Something that certainly factored in our w/l record.

2nd when it comes to Murray, we drafted him in the 3rd round rather than a top 5 pick, but he had warts and issues that caused him to drop.
- First, he isn't nearly as talented or productive a runner coming out of college.
- Second, he has a fumbling problem, not positive if he had a fumbling problem in college, hard to find those details
- Third, he has issues staying healthy
- Four, he had limited vision

All of these things impacted us even when Murray was extremely productive and cost us games and potentially championships.

The point of getting Elliott isn't necessarily to provide top notch stats. The biggest factor is going to be if he returns balance to this team and helps put it over the top. We'll see this not just in his numbers, but in other players around him.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

We went 4-12 last year.

You're conflating things.

1st McFadden while somewhat productive in crossing the 1000 threshold only had 3 rushing touchdowns last year. Something that certainly factored in our w/l record.

2nd when it comes to Murray, we drafted him in the 3rd round rather than a top 5 pick, but he had warts and issues that caused him to drop.
- First, he isn't nearly as talented or productive a runner coming out of college.
- Second, he has a fumbling problem, not positive if he had a fumbling problem in college, hard to find those details
- Third, he has issues staying healthy
- Four, he had limited vision

All of these things impacted us even when Murray was extremely productive and cost us games and potentially championships.

The point of getting Elliott isn't necessarily to provide top notch stats. The biggest factor is going to be if he returns balance to this team and helps put it over the top. We'll see this not just in his numbers, but in other players around him.

Hand him the football, tell the big boys upfront to demolish defenders, and tell him to run. run. run.

And just keep doing it...............

You know why E. Smith holds the record for most rushing yards all time? Because the other teams couldn't stop him. Couldn't stop it.

"Hey guys, were handing the ball off to this dude......we know you cant stop it".....................

Hand the ball off to EE, let Romo get out of the way, and just keep doing it................that's what will win games.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We went 4-12 last year.

You're conflating things.

1st McFadden while somewhat productive in crossing the 1000 threshold only had 3 rushing touchdowns last year. Something that certainly factored in our w/l record.

2nd when it comes to Murray, we drafted him in the 3rd round rather than a top 5 pick, but he had warts and issues that caused him to drop.
- First, he isn't nearly as talented or productive a runner coming out of college.
- Second, he has a fumbling problem, not positive if he had a fumbling problem in college, hard to find those details
- Third, he has issues staying healthy
- Four, he had limited vision

All of these things impacted us even when Murray was extremely productive and cost us games and potentially championships.

The point of getting Elliott isn't necessarily to provide top notch stats. The biggest factor is going to be if he returns balance to this team and helps put it over the top. We'll see this not just in his numbers, but in other players around him.

I am not defending either backs in the way you think. In fact I hate McFadden and I think he stinks as a back. I also loved that we didnt resign Murray. I wanted a better back than Murray. But what these two guys proved was that we dont need an all world back to have a great run game. Quite frankly, if you gave Morris 300 carries in this offense he would probably lead the league in rushing. NO need to use a 4th pick on a back, even though the guy is incredible.

I really dont see why this is such a confusing or radical concept. If you cats cant understand my point of view, lets just move on.

Im going to enjoy watching Zeke tear it up, and in the end, this is exactly what I wanted as far as a back and a run game. But its too early in the process and using a top 4 pick was poor value. splitting hairs, but when it comes to winning championships, these type of decisions make a difference. And for long term thinking this was about as bad a pick as we could have made.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Hand him the football, tell the big boys upfront to demolish defenders, and tell him to run. run. run.

And just keep doing it...............

You know why E. Smith holds the record for most rushing yards all time? Because the other teams couldn't stop him. Couldn't stop it.

"Hey guys, were handing the ball off to this dude......we know you cant stop it".....................

Hand the ball off to EE, let Romo get out of the way, and just keep doing it................that's what will win games.

Great points, but the what you are missing is that we had a top 5 defense and in some years the #1 defense in the league. Without that we will just be another good team. As many have pointed out, defensive rookies take a year or two to really kick in. So you need to get the defense set first, then add the back when you are contender ready. The Cowboys have done the reverse here. Seriously...................This is the highest pick we have had in how many years? 20? And how do the Cowboys use it? Not on a QB of the future, which they desperately need, not on a pass rusher, not on a corner, but on a RB? And this is when we have shown that we can dominate in the run game with this line and a good back? I know some of you cats dont get it. You only see Zeke running to daylight. But this was a bad value pick any way you slice it.

And like I said............the ONLY way this pick pans out is if he becomes a HOF type back and puts up 1500 to 2000 yards every year and 15-20 TD's. Emmitt led the league in rushing all time because he was durable and was awesome for like 8 years and never got hurt.

 

[Galian Beast]

I am not defending either backs in the way you think. In fact I hate McFadden and I think he stinks as a back. I also loved that we didnt resign Murray. I wanted a better back than Murray. But what these two guys proved was that we dont need an all world back to have a great run game. Quite frankly, if you gave Morris 300 carries in this offense he would probably lead the league in rushing. NO need to use a 4th pick on a back, even though the guy is incredible.

I really dont see why this is such a confusing or radical concept. If you cats cant understand my point of view, lets just move on.

Im going to enjoy watching Zeke tear it up, and in the end, this is exactly what I wanted as far as a back and a run game. But its too early in the process and using a top 4 pick was poor value. splitting hairs, but when it comes to winning championships, these type of decisions make a difference. And for long term thinking this was about as bad a pick as we could have made.

Again, there is a large difference between getting the yards and properly impacting the game.

 

[Verdict]

How many carries per game do you guys expect Elliott to get this year? How many additional plays go his way in the passing game? I think he will average about 18 to 19 carries per game in the rushing game. That would put him at 300 carries for the year rushing the football, assuming he starts he whole year and stays healthy.

I think he will have another 4 pass plays per game go his way, on average. That would be another 64 touches in the passing game, assuming he stays healthy. That's 22 total touches per game.

It is hard to see him not getting that many carries per game, since we drafted him to carry the bulk of the carries. On the other hand, I also think that is probably near the ceiling on him as well, if we don't want to burn him out. I think his FLOOR for touches per game, on average is 15 touches per game.

The ceiling on his touches only goes up if he is not getting hit every play and is scoring or getting out of bounds with regularity so that he isn't getting the **** hammered out of him on every play. We have invested a lot in this pick, so I doubt we burn him out like we did Murray.

What say the huddled masses?

 

[Irvin88_4life]

Would you rather have a 1500 yard back with 3 TDs.....or a 1100 back with 15 TDs?

Don't get caught up in yards but look at scores. Points win the game not yards.

What has been the issue with Romo? Trying to do to much, you give him an elite back with an elite OL and now Romo excels......so they say. Problem is his stats on average are 3,000-4,000 yards 30 some TDs and 10 Interceptions. In 2014 he hit around the same averages but went 12-4. Why because he had a RB scoring TDs taking the pressure off him and was able to milk the clock by running.

Points equals wins

 

[JoeBoBBY]

Great points, but the what you are missing is that we had a top 5 defense and in some years the #1 defense in the league. Without that we will just be another good team. As many have pointed out, defensive rookies take a year or two to really kick in. So you need to get the defense set first, then add the back when you are contender ready. The Cowboys have done the reverse here. Seriously...................This is the highest pick we have had in how many years? 20? And how do the Cowboys use it? Not on a QB of the future, which they desperately need, not on a pass rusher, not on a corner, but on a RB? And this is when we have shown that we can dominate in the run game with this line and a good back? I know some of you cats dont get it. You only see Zeke running to daylight. But this was a bad value pick any way you slice it.

And like I said............the ONLY way this pick pans out is if he becomes a HOF type back and puts up 1500 to 2000 yards every year and 15-20 TD's. Emmitt led the league in rushing all time because he was durable and was awesome for like 8 years and never got hurt.

That's a solid argument.....and I get it. It all makes sense. I really wanted a QB, and for awhile I thought we were going to get one of the top 2.

We spent many resources on D last year. We have been "trying" to address that side of the ball. But I am ecstatic about EE coming here. A little too high for value, probably....But he wasn't going to be around later....

I also think they are dedicating this years team to running the football. Signing Morris, drafting EE, Jackson. We have that OL, Dez and T. Romo....

.I don't think the goal is to be a "great" dynasty like team. I think the goal is to be a good strong team, this upcoming year, run the football and have the Offense "clicking", because without that O performing at a high level, there was no draft pick on the Defensive side of the ball, that would've helped us win this year. But have an Offense that can dictate and dominate at some points in the game, play keep away, wear down the other team, and grind our way to scores like 24,21 with us winning.....and see if we cant make a run this year.....maybe Romos last year..... or within the next two years.... that's what the goal is......imho.


I will not fault the FO for making this play......We all know it was a bad value pick. But I think it has a chance to turn into a great great pick. I will not fault the FO for taking this chance. And I beat up the FO more then most.....

I think EE has the chance to be something really special......time will tell.

 

[Oh_Canada]

This is a list of first round running backs Since Adrian Peterson. Have their been flops? Absolutely. I think something we need to key on is that sometimes positions are weak in certain years, and probably don't really have a player that should be drafted in the first round, but because they're the best of their class they get drafted early. Happens at every position, running back isn't unique here. And I believe there was a major drought of elite runners in college football for a while.

Adrian Peterson
Marshawn Lynch
Darren McFadden
Jonathan Stewart
Felix Jones
Rashard Mendenhall
Chris Johnson
Knowshon Moreno
Donald Brown
Beanie Wells
CJ Spiller
Ryan Mathews
Jahvid Best
Mark Ingram
Trent Richardson
Doug Martin
David Wilson
Todd Gurley
Melvin Gordon


I think what you'll find is that most of them really did have the talent to varying degrees, but many of them probably shouldn't have been drafted where they were. Many weren't successful because of where they went though. They either were drafted by teams that were no good, already had running backs, or were expected to run in an RBBC.

I challenge you to find me in this Adrian Peterson era, many 1st round running backs that were as accomplished and healthy as Ezekiel Elliott. I'm talking about rushing yards and touchdowns. Only a few players with that kind of prestige and production have been considered busts. You look at McFadden and it is almost certainly a result of where he was drafted. Trent Richardson had no business being drafted that early.

Many of these running backs were never going to be bell cows. CJ Spiller, Mark Ingram, Felix Jones...

I see zero Super Bowls with the team's that drafted them on that list. The Cowboys are trying to go against the grain with the focus on the running game, but if Romo doesn't return to his pre 2015 form they aren't winning squat.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Again, there is a large difference between getting the yards and properly impacting the game.

I completely agree. Mcfadden got the yards, but didnt impact the game. Murray got the yards and impacted the game very well, but didnt provide the big plays and left yards on the field. Which is scary. But AGAIN, a good back like Murray (not McFadden) was good enough for right now. The defense was the problem, not the run game.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That's a solid argument.....and I get it. It all makes sense. I really wanted a QB, and for awhile I thought we were going to get one of the top 2.

We spent many resources on D last year. We have been "trying" to address that side of the ball. But I am ecstatic about EE coming here. A little too high for value, probably....But he wasn't going to be around later....

I also think they are dedicating this years team to running the football. Signing Morris, drafting EE, Jackson. We have that OL, Dez and T. Romo....

.I don't think the goal is to be a "great" dynasty like team. I think the goal is to be a good strong team, this upcoming year, run the football and have the Offense "clicking", because without that O performing at a high level, there was no draft pick on the Defensive side of the ball, that would've helped us win this year. But have an Offense that can dictate and dominate at some points in the game, play keep away, wear down the other team, and grind our way to scores like 24,21 with us winning.....and see if we cant make a run this year.....maybe Romos last year..... or within the next two years.... that's what the goal is......imho.


I will not fault the FO for making this play......We all know it was a bad value pick. But I think it has a chance to turn into a great great pick. I will not fault the FO for taking this chance. And I beat up the FO more then most.....

I think EE has the chance to be something really special......time will tell.

I completely agree with everything you just said. About Zeke and all of it. My only issue is with the "goal" they have. Not looking to be a Dynasty and build long term. They simply want to become a good team as quickly as possible and roll the dice on the Romo window. I hate this type of team building and franchise direction. In my mind, its why we havent won anything in a looooonggggg time and probably wont for a loooonggg time. Its sad for me to see this mind frame by the brass year after year.

But I am all for the power run game being the focus of this offense. I couldnt be happier about that.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

I completely agree with everything you just said. About Zeke and all of it. My only issue is with the "goal" they have. Not looking to be a Dynasty and build long term. They simply want to become a good team as quickly as possible and roll the dice on the Romo window. I hate this type of team building and franchise direction. In my mind, its why we havent won anything in a looooonggggg time and probably wont for a loooonggg time. Its sad for me to see this mind frame by the brass year after year.

But I am all for the power run game being the focus of this offense. I couldnt be happier about that.

yeah I agree. But I don't fault them for "playing it " this way for these next few years..... The RW trade I do fault them for. Pushing BP away I fault them for, hiring Wade, camp cupcake, Celebrity Culture, etc etc.......there are many things I do place blame on them for. Bottom line is. we are a horrible franchise.....we haven't had much success going on 2 decades now. 2 decades!! You would think, with a QB like Romo and a division like the NFCLeast, we could've stumbled into a few NFCCG at the very least..........................................nope, nuttin.

But, heck, I say just run with it now....Romo is 36, getting a little fragile imho..... When he is gone, who do we have that's going to replace him? were going to have to go through Q Carters and D Hensons....It wont matter who else is on the field...................Unless we build a Ray Lewis/Ed Reed like type Defense.....................good luck with that endeavor. We better get that QB, soon............................... its going to be painful if we don't have someone ready to go.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Then again, he was a complete waste of a pick. Why would you use a 4th pick on a guy you give the ball to 15 times a game? You dont even make sense at this point.

I was oppposed to going RB at 4. Look at my posting history if you don't believe me. I'm in here every day preaching the same thing. I guess you never noticed.

 

[CowboyRoy]

yeah I agree. But I don't fault them for "playing it " this way for these next few years..... The RW trade I do fault them for. Pushing BP away I fault them for, hiring Wade, camp cupcake, Celebrity Culture, etc etc.......there are many things I do place blame on them for. Bottom line is. we are a horrible franchise.....we haven't had much success going on 2 decades now. 2 decades!! You would think, with a QB like Romo and a division like the NFCLeast, we could've stumbled into a few NFCCG at the very least..........................................nope, nuttin.

But, heck, I say just run with it now....Romo is 36, getting a little fragile imho..... When he is gone, who do we have that's going to replace him? were going to have to go through Q Carters and D Hensons....It wont matter who else is on the field...................Unless we build a Ray Lewis/Ed Reed like type Defense.....................good luck with that endeavor. We better get that QB, soon............................... its going to be painful if we don't have someone ready to go.

Not me. Running with it now is all but guaranteeing that not only will the next 3 years with Romo not lead us to a championship, but the next 3 to 5 years after that will be rebuilding and QB development years. If you want me to explain that, I will.