Flozell Adams vs. Doug Free

[theogt]

Nah, I don't think Jerrah is going to avoid the OL in the first round this year. I think an OT is the odds on choice. Part of it is need and part is the point that there aren't many other positions on the team that need an infusion of first round talent.

We'll see an OT drafted in the first round and probably a guard/center no later than the 3rd round.

Really? I think Jerry is certain at this point that Free is the future at left tackle, and we have our right tackle for several more years, so I don't see any way possible we draft a tackle in the first two rounds. Maybe the 3rd at the highest.

I mean, he basically said this much a couple days ago: "As we look to our decisions in the offensive line, we know we’ve got a player in Doug Free."

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

I think he's been underrated for a while, mostly because people focus on the penalties.

Why shouldn't people focus on penalties? You give up a sack, you push the offense back. You get called for a stupid penalty, guess what you just did? Pushed the offense back.

Just because he doesn't give up a sack every game, many times due to Romo scrambling to avoid it, doesn't make him better than he is. If Flozell was playing exactly like he does for us, but he was a Commander, you'd be saying "Man I can't wait until we get to play Flozell this week. He'll give us 50 yards in penalty yards and he can't handle speed off the edge."

Take off the homer shades.

 

[theogt]

Why shouldn't people focus on penalties? You give up a sack, you push the offense back. You get called for a stupid penalty, guess what you just did? Pushed the offense back.

Just because he doesn't give up a sack every game, many times due to Romo scrambling to avoid it, doesn't make him better than he is. If Flozell was playing exactly like he does for us, but he was a Commander, you'd be saying "Man I can't wait until we get to play Flozell this week. He'll give us 50 yards in penalty yards and he can't handle speed off the edge."

Take off the homer shades.

Sacks are much more important than penalties, which to be honest aren't all that debilitating (at least false starts are not). A holding penalty is almost as bad as a sack, but sacks are clearly the defining stat for a lineman. Most people overemphasize the importance of penalties, when in fact they have very little impact on wins and losses.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about the past several years, not this year. He's having a bad season, by his standards, this year.

 

[jobberone]

Since there is no cap next year it doesn't matter so it is a good year to trade him.

I don't think Flo is terrible but Free is a natural LT who does an admirable job and quickly become our best overall OL playing RT. You can see it in his long arms, footwork and athleticism (that open field block on Gay, peeling back and knocking that player off Romo to let him hit Austin for the TD against the Saints are two spectacular examples) that he is a natural born LT.

There are many teams that have worst LTs than Flo. Let us trade him to one of them and draft a safety, OL or ILB which are all high need positions. This is what high level teams must consistently do to stay atop since the draft is naturally rigged against them.

I don't think you should ever trade a QB or LT when they are playing well. You can throw in a 'shutdown' corner in that pot, too. And I don't think you'll get enough for Flo in a trade. Not what he's worth to the team. Even if Free can beat him out next year (or another) it's not worth trading a serviceable backup LT for even a third round pick. You're not likely to find the replacement for him with that pick. So either way he's worth a lot to the team. If we weren't a contending club then I'd be all for trading him for a third. But not when you're a play away from losing your LT.

Free has played quite a bit of LT for us during preseason games.

The preseason is not December in the NFL. Not with playoffs on the line. Let's see what he can do in a real game.

Flo is not playing on a high level. He's cut down on penalties this year, but his drive blocking is pretty poor right now and his pass protection is so-so. I think one of the reasons why we run so much shotgun is to protect Romo for a possible lapse in Flo's blocking. He looks really old and stiff out there. We can cut him next year and not have to worry about the cap hit.

I think that's what we'll see with an uncapped year, more dumping of salaries than somebody trying to stockpile FA's.





YAKUZA

Well, we just have to agree to disagree. He's not playing at a level he once was. He gives up a play her and there. Still he's not giving up too many sacks and his run blocking is still at a high level. The proof is in how well we do in the running game. And it's not all over the right side either.

 

[theogt]

The preseason is not December in the NFL. Not with playoffs on the line. Let's see what he can do in a real game.

Doesn't matter. He's played left tackle in the preseason and there's been enough to judge him by in that playing time. If you can't tell if a player is good enough to start in preseason, you won't be able to tell if he's good enough to start if he were playing in December.

By the way, he has at least played tackle in December, in the biggest game of the season, and he was the best lineman on the team.

 

[jobberone]

Doesn't matter. He's played left tackle in the preseason and there's been enough to judge him by in that playing time. If you can't tell if a player is good enough to start in preseason, you won't be able to tell if he's good enough to start if he were playing in December.

By the way, he has at least played tackle in December, in the biggest game of the season, and he was the best lineman on the team.

I think he can play over there, too. How well is the question. And we just don't know that well enough to replace Flo with him at this point in time. He still doesn't have any real experience playing there. He will get enough exposure at RT playing speed rushers for them to make an informed decision in the offseason. And one game does not give enough credence to the argument. He needs some volume of work to supplant a pretty damn good player at LT.

They aren't going to replace Flo now nor, IMO, are they going to do it next year. I can't remember all the cap implications in an uncapped year but I do remember you can't totally dismiss the cap regardless of the name 'uncapped'. Right now Free is very valuable being a backup and a damn good one at that.

I'll be happy to 'wear' an appropriate sig for a time should I be wrong but I'm not in the least worried about Flo going anywhere.

 

[theogt]

I think he can play over there, too. How well is the question. And we just don't know that well enough to replace Flo with him at this point in time. He still doesn't have any real experience playing there. He will get enough exposure at RT playing speed rushers for them to make an informed decision in the offseason. And one game does not give enough credence to the argument. He needs some volume of work to supplant a pretty damn good player at LT.

They aren't going to replace Flo now nor, IMO, are they going to do it next year. I can't remember all the cap implications in an uncapped year but I do remember you can't totally dismiss the cap regardless of the name 'uncapped'. Right now Free is very valuable being a backup and a damn good one at that.

I'll be happy to 'wear' an appropriate sig for a time should I be wrong but I'm not in the least worried about Flo going anywhere.

I think we can say with a pretty substantial certainty how well Free will play as a LT and it's better than the Flozell is playing right now.

 

[The Curly One]

Flozell has got to go. He has never played up to what he should have and is way over paid. I do not care what the cap hit will be cut your loses and move on. The problem is we have to find someone to take his place and good linemen are hard to find.
The mere fact that we discuss this every week should be some sort of an indication he is not cutting it. Another week another Flozell hat trick, One holding penalty, one false start and multiple whiffed blocks.
This year alone SEVERAL rookies have blown by him to get their first sack of their NFL careers. Am I the only one who thinks that is a problem? The new kids on the block are spanking him and it is not pretty. Flosmell earned that nickname years ago and has not improved much if any.
I do not know who is going to replace him but I do know he has to go.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Really? I think Jerry is certain at this point that Free is the future at left tackle, and we have our right tackle for several more years, so I don't see any way possible we draft a tackle in the first two rounds. Maybe the 3rd at the highest.

I mean, he basically said this much a couple days ago: "As we look to our decisions in the offensive line, we know we’ve got a player in Doug Free."

I think it's a depth issue.

If Adams is gone the team will be down to two dependable OT's... And you know that an injury can happen at any point. I think a high draft pick for an OT is darn near a necessity (if) Adams is not part of the team in 2010.

The other thing that leads me to the choice of an OT in the 1st round is that outside of the Oline and safety I don't know of any other position that needs an influx of 1st round talent. Let me include DE in this if Spears is not part of the team in 2010. The Cowboys could draft a DE in the first round.

Yeah, you always hear, "Draft the best guy available", but QB? RB? TE? CB? OLB? NT?

There just aren't that many spots that need a first round pick thrown into the mix (as much) as the oline does.

 

[burmafrd]

I actually would have no problem spending our first and second rd picks on O linemen. Maybe not 2 tackles, but I would love to get another guy that can be both a guard and center. I really hated that we lost out on Unger. I just wonder if Jerruh can make himself use that much to get O linemen.

BUT ABOVE ALL ELSE GET RID OF PROCTOR!!!!!

 

[Eskimo]

I think it's a depth issue.

If Adams is gone the team will be down to two dependable OT's... And you know that an injury can happen at any point. I think a high draft pick for an OT is darn near a necessity (if) Adams is not part of the team in 2010.

The other thing that leads me to the choice of an OT in the 1st round is that outside of the Oline and safety I don't know of any other position that needs an influx of 1st round talent. Let me include DE in this if Spears is not part of the team in 2010. The Cowboys could draft a DE in the first round.

Yeah, you always hear, "Draft the best guy available", but QB? RB? TE? CB? OLB? NT?

There just aren't that many spots that need a first round pick thrown into the mix (as much) as the oline does.

I think we should trade Flo and get an extra pick - then try to parlay that pick into someone who can be a quality guard but who also has the footwork to at least play right tackle.

The sad truth of the NFL is that it is hard to keep quality depth - especially at the premium positions like QB, pass rushing DE/OLB, top CB, LT, top WR. Under the current system, those players are snatched up by other teams often when you need them because the starter is ready to be demoted to the backup role. That is part of the problem with UFA starting after four years..

I also think that if you don't use the opportunity to trade vets like Flo who are still okay starters, you will never get anything in return and thus you won't have any depth in the end anyway.

I would suggest getting another quality starting OL in the draft is a much bigger priority than keeping Flo as overpaid depth.

 

[The Curly One]

I think it's a depth issue.


There just aren't that many spots that need a first round pick thrown into the mix (as much) as the oline does.

I have been saying that for more than ten years. Until you protect the quarterback you can not have a winning team. In 93 -96 we had one of the best Olines ever and it showed. Then it started deteriating and even Troy Aikman had to retire early because of the beating he had to take. It has not got better and until it does the Cowboys will be losers. I hate to use a first round draft pick on the Oline because it usually takes a while for them to be really good in the NFL but at this point we have to dump Flosmell and concentrate on getting an Oline or get used to and quit crying about losing.
Tony Romo has done a very good job avoiding the rush at times but a good line would protect him MUCH better. Then good things atart happening, long pass plays, better ground game and less interceptions. You just start winning if you have a good Oline. With out it you are losers. Plain and simple.
Tony can do it, Barber and Jones can do it, our Oline can not. Do not blame Romo, Jones, blame the Oline for most all of our losses.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think we should trade Flo and get an extra pick - then try to parlay that pick into someone who can be a quality guard but who also has the footwork to at least play right tackle.

The sad truth of the NFL is that it is hard to keep quality depth - especially at the premium positions like QB, pass rushing DE/OLB, top CB, LT, top WR. Under the current system, those players are snatched up by other teams often when you need them because the starter is ready to be demoted to the backup role. That is part of the problem with UFA starting after four years..

I also think that if you don't use the opportunity to trade vets like Flo who are still okay starters, you will never get anything in return and thus you won't have any depth in the end anyway.

I would suggest getting another quality starting OL in the draft is a much bigger priority than keeping Flo as overpaid depth.

I think the time to trade Adams was 3-4 years ago when he hit the 30-mark.

No one would take him now, not at his salary and declining level of play. Guys just don't start getting better at age 35 than what they were at 33 & 34. The Cowboys waited too long to churn that position due to the poor drafting and what-not. If things had gone better in the draft room, Rogers would probably be the starting LT at this point with Adams at one of the guard spots... but alas it didn't work our that way.

 

[Eskimo]

I actually would have no problem spending our first and second rd picks on O linemen. Maybe not 2 tackles, but I would love to get another guy that can be both a guard and center. I really hated that we lost out on Unger. I just wonder if Jerruh can make himself use that much to get O linemen.

BUT ABOVE ALL ELSE GET RID OF PROCTOR!!!!!

I actually think ILB is as big or a bigger priority than OL with the emergence of Free as the LT of the future. I think that at least 2 of the top 3 picks should be ILB and OL.

I would really love to draft a starter at center so we can move Gurode the guard and Bigg to Right Tackle.

 

[Eskimo]

I think the time to trade Adams was 3-4 years ago when he hit the 30-mark.

No one would take him now, not at his salary and declining level of play. Guys just don't start getting better at age 35 than what they were at 33 & 34. The Cowboys waited too long to churn that position due to the poor drafting and what-not. If things had gone better in the draft room, Rogers would probably be the starting LT at this point with Adams at one of the guard spots... but alas it didn't work our that way.

Teams can get desperate if they lose a starter at TC.

Look at the Raiders - they gave up a first for a mediocre Richard Seymour.

Flo was worth a first 3 or 4 years ago. He is probably worth a 3rd round pick right now due to the premium of the position.

 

[AsthmaField]

I actually think ILB is as big or a bigger priority than OL with the emergence of Free as the LT of the future. I think that at least 2 of the top 3 picks should be ILB and OL.

I agree. Brooking is very good, but he's been around for a while. Jason Williams has tons of physical potential, but it remains to be seen if he will become a good player or not. James is good, but not great. ILB is critical in a 3-4 and we could use some top notch talent to groom there.

I would really love to draft a starter at center so we can move Gurode the guard and Bigg to Right Tackle.

What would you do with Colombo?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I actually think ILB is as big or a bigger priority than OL with the emergence of Free as the LT of the future. I think that at least 2 of the top 3 picks should be ILB and OL.

I would really love to draft a starter at center so we can move Gurode the guard and Bigg to Right Tackle.

I think a 3rd or 4th rounder could be spent on an ILB. But I'm not sure about a 1st or 2nd.

We still have our 3rd rounder from this year waiting to be developed and the kit who had the knee problem.

And then there's Bobbie.

I think it's far easier to pick up a serviceable ILB than it is a serviceable OT.

 

[The Curly One]

Flozell is worth nothing in a trade now and is a detriment to any team he plays for. He was never that good in the first place and he is not getting better. Time to put him out to pasture, sure some team may pick him up like the San Fransisco 49'rs did Larry Allen but for any serious team he is done. No team he is a starter on will ever be a serious playoff team. No team would give anything of value for him.
I would not even keep Flozell for depth, cut your losses and move on. Even at the league minimum I would not keep him and the Flozell hat tricks.

 

[AsthmaField]

I think a 3rd or 4th rounder could be spent on an ILB. But I'm not sure about a 1st or 2nd.

You may be right... but I would love to see us spend a 1st or second on a blue-chip ILB that could anchor the defense for a decade. I think a Ray Lewis/Urlacher type would be great for the defense.

the kit who had the knee problem.

Hodge. I really do like his potential. He is a banger, that's for sure, and he is going to be one of the quicker ILB/MLB's in the league. If he has the instincts for ILB (I think he does) he might turn into a good one because he certainly has the ability and the heart.

I think it's far easier to pick up a serviceable ILB than it is a serviceable OT.

That is 100% true. I would rather see us use our #1 pick on an OL than an ILB. However, if there is a true difference maker available at ILB and just your average first round OL that is available... then I say go with the difference maker at LB.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That is 100% true. I would rather see us use our #1 pick on an OL than an ILB. However, if there is a true difference maker available at ILB and just your average first round OL that is available... then I say go with the difference maker at LB.

I'm not usually a proponent of spending a 1st round pick on the OL.

I just look at this team and I do not see any other position that combines advanced age with a scary lack of depth.

I'm not giddy about the safety spot, ILB and corner, but those areas seem more stable than the offensive line.

Let the Cowboys spend a couple early picks in April on two new offensive lineman and let's shore up the depth for a couple years.