FO still trying to get away without investing in DL

[JBell]

Bizarre timing for this thread coming off a draft where they invested a First Rounder on the DL.

2016: I guess you could complain about not taking a D-lineman high in last year's draft. But Bosa was taken at 3. And you're not going to convince anyone that DeForest Buckner or Leonard Floyd would have been better picks at #4 than Zeke.

2nd round comes around and they were going to draft a DE with that pick, but Cleveland sniped their guy a few picks before (Ogbah). So they drafted Jaylon. 3rd and one of the 4th round picks were spent on the DL - Collins and Tapper.

2015: Took Gregory in the 2nd, who was a consensus top 10 talent in that draft. Signed Hardy, who was regarded as a top 10 DE in the league. Extended Tyrone Crawford, who was 25 and coming off a breakout season.

2014: Traded up for Lawrence in the early 2nd.


Be upset that the picks/$$$ they've invested haven't worked out recently, but don't say they haven't tried.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Yeah its a weird thread, but nothing else to do, why not.

We do have to look at the particular draft, to see who was available where and understand how much of an advantage the offense has in the modern era.

Only pick I can see where we could've picked DL real early was JJ Watt. But how can choosing Tyron be a bad pick as of now. We have an offensive head coach, and he will make sure we can score and keep people in the stands for Jerry. I just hope Rod can channel his inner Bliecheat on D, not like they had the most talented D in the league.....btw very underrated that they have a great D without a 'wardaddy'.

I do hate all this DL vs the rest of the D though. Its a team, we have to get it done on all levels, especially on D with being spread out by offenses. Spending resources on Mo, Carr, Byron and such shouldn't be ignored. Think we spent all these resources on DBs in this draft for no reason? If we actually met the Pats in the SB, they would beat our brains out without good secondary play.

This ain't the 90s man, we don't have to draft Pittman, Carver, and such to actually win ballgames.

 

[Proximo]

What a stupid thread title.

We've invested plenty of resources in the D-line, we've just been very poor at who we've decided to spend those resources on.

Namely, Greg Hardy, Randy Gregory, and of course other guys who are still on the team but haven't lived up to their price tag so far- such as Crawford, D-Law, and I see OP is already dogging our most recent pick Taco.

Ill reserve judgement until I see how this year's rotation looks on the field. We could certainly get legit contributions from new guys like Tapper and Taco, as well as improvement from guys like D-Law and Crawford, not to mention Maliek, Thornton and Irving.

 

[JohnsKey19]

They've tried. Drafting Lawrence and Gregory, Drafting then re-signing Crawford. It hasn't worked out as they hoped obviously. Let's allow Taco to play even a few NFL games before burying him already. Collins appears to be on his way to being a presence inside. Perhaps the only thing they haven't done is attempt to sign a premier free agent DL like a Vernon or Suh. But I can't fault them there.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

The premium picks (top three) support the exact opposite.

DBs (25%)
Byron Jones - Solid starter in first year at FS
Chidobe Awuze - Starter at CB (Nolan Carroll will be suspended and the reviews so far are good)
Jourdan Lewis - Hopeful future starter at Nickel

OL (17%)
Zack Martin - Top Guard in the NFL
Chaz Green - injured, but looking like the possible starter at Guard in 2017

RB (8%)
Ezekiel Elliot - arguably the Top RB in NFL

LB (8%)
Jaylon Smith - Looking like he will be starting in 2017

DL (42%)
DeMarcus Lawrence (two picks) - Current Starter DE, suspended and injured
Randy Gregory - Wasted pick
Maliek Collins - Starter DT, possible
Taco Charlton - Hopefully our future starter LDE

This is feelings based, but I colored them according to their impact on the team:
Blue (33%) - They are locks on this team as starters for years
Green (25%) - Good work ethic and upside. I feel like they can be blue with time and investment
Black (16%) - They have the skills to start, but injury/off field issues cloud them
Red (25%) - Simply a bad investment

Their only three bad picks (two wasted on Tank) were on DL, which sticks out like a sore thumb when compared to the others. The two possibilities on why are: bad evaluating OR they reached in desperation. Given the trade up for Tank and the red flags on Gregory, it is pretty obvious that they reached. Considering their success rate when they did not reach/gamble, one could make the determination that they would have been stacked at three other spots had they not tried too hard to fill their DL needs.

 

[Pants]

I said this in another thread, they have built their core through the draft on offense; the OL that they have can potentially play another 10 years together as a unit (OL, if healthy, play WELL into their 30's); having the OL basically set means that they don't have to use premium resources their (in the draft or otherwise)...for the next 4 years, minimally, they have QB and RB, they have good players on offense that are young other than Dez and Witt, offense settled, check
On defense, they have started to use the same approach, albeit not with high first rounders...they have just re-set their DBs and I am on board with that (at least from a cost perspective); Byron is a winner at safety, I am excited to see what he can do once he has some help back there (once the kiddies get up to speed); if Jaylon works out, then that transforms the defense without having a dynamic DL yet; Collins is a terrific pick @ DT, he will only get better; they just put a late 1st rounder on DL, and THEN focused on the DB change-over...much like offense, it is a young defense other than Mr Lee

I am encouraged by what Dallas has done, although it has taken the "process" to start seeing it; if the DBs and Jaylon perform, it will make the DL look much better (that works in both directions, of course); I am not big on some of the DL Dallas has on the team, but I am looking forward to seeing Tapper on the field and then Charlton; if whomever mans DT1 can hold up two blockers, then Collins is going to lead the team in sacks and that will only benefit the like of charlton and Tapper

let's take a step back from trashing the FO on the DL....In Will We Trust

 

[ShiningStar]

you cant first rounders in every round of the draft and you cant have steak at every position. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. Who knows which players take off and which dont. Who has a good year and people declare them the best thing until the next year and is not good. It happens. Plenty to blame the FO for, but lets not make it "Had the FO painted the building black instead of sky blue, the planes would have gone around the building.

 

[pugilist]

maybe someone with more intimate knowledge can educate me on the scouting dept, but do they have dedicated scouts to each position (i.e. an OL scout, a DL scout, a QB scout, etc.)? 2 scouts, one for offense, and one for defense?

imo, the problem is not the trying.. they have definitely TRIED to improve the DL. the problem, to me, is nobody knows how to properly evaluate defensive talent, which is why they have missed on a bunch of players..

 

[Sarge]

They've in vested in the DL. They simply haven't done as nearly as good a job as they've done with the OL.

 

[noshame]

Stout DT's are what make or break defenses in today's NFL. Give me 2 guys who demand offenses to protect the inside, and your DE's can be just a notch above average. Then again your DC has to use enough different looks and blitz packages to keep OL's guessing.

 

[pgreptom]

That isn't a great investment, especially with a 4-5 year reset....

The reality is you have one first round draft pick at the end of the first round in the last 4 years... That's seriously anemic when you consider the state of the defensive line when we drafted Lawrence...

The reality is every starter can't be a first round pick. It's not lacking anything iny my opinion. Just whiffed on some guys they shouldn't have(Lawrence, Gregory)...

 

[Risen Star]

Odd statement to make when they just used their 1st round pick on a DE.

 

[CWR]

Not investing and not being successful with those investments are two different things. The whole narrative that our front office is ignoring the DL is FALSE.

 

[thisiscowboyscountry]

I love how people defend this team as if we've been knocking on the door of a championship the last few years...

We've been to the playoffs twice in seven years under Garrett and he is 1-2 in the playoffs...

We've been investing in offense since before Garrett was head coach and we've ignored defense the entire time to no avail. The investments we did make on defense were always in the secondary instead of up front where most plays are determined.

You can't say they haven't invested while in the last 4 drafts they have used 3 premium picks on de. Unfortunately injuries and suspensions have limited the impact on 2 out of 3 so I can understand why it feels like we have just started investing. Before making any further conclusions lets see what our first round pick Taco brings, along with Lawrence in a contract year.

 

[jazzcat22]

The DL will be just fine.
Elite, the best, no, but it is a start. When building a team, rather all around or on offense or on defense. You need to look how they progress.

As in 1989, the entire team needed to be rebuilt. And pre cap / FA Jimmy had Jerry's money to spend, and unlimited resources.
Now to Jason taking over for wade. He had some cot=re players, but aging and over paid, under performing. It wasn't going to be easy with being in cap hell.
So he started getting rid of those players, and was willing to take the pains of it.
He now has the offense, and needs to work on the defense more. Now injuries certainly did not help, and the cap keeps you from fixing that.

But if you look at the defense from when rob Ryan was here, it completely needed to be rebuilt. When Parcels went to the 3-4, it set us back 3 years, so when going back to the 4-3, it takes time. Well the injury bug did not help Kiffin. Then rod takes over, and the team was still working on getting out of cap hell while still building back up, and seems emphasis wa son the offense more than defense.

However, each year since Rod took over, the defense got better in their play, and stats wise never have got worse.
And bing 5th in scoring defense is far better than yards defense IMO. That will improve this year too.

So they will continue to improve overall on defense. I have no doubt there. May not be top 10 yet, but may be playing like it by seasons end, when it comes playoff time.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

2017 - rnd 1 - Taco Charlton
2016 - rnd 3 - Maliek Collins
2016 - rnd 4 - Charles Tapper
2015 - rnd 5 - Ryan Russell
2014 - rnd 2 - Demarcus Lawrence

?????

And they paid good money to Tyrone Crawford and spent a 2nd rounder on Randy Gregory.





YR

 

[xwalker]

I would love to be wrong, but I don't think Taco Charlton is going to be the answer to our pass rush woes. I think next year we'll see him playing a lot more at left end replacing Lawrence.

I can certainly see us in the position of needing to draft a defensive end and defensive tackle high next year.

I think we're stuck with Crawford again in 2018, but after that, he needs to be gone. Knowing that the team needs to start taking the line more seriously.

2018 1st rounder - Collins - 2018 2nd rounder - Charlton
mayowa - irving - paea - tapper

Depending on how well we do this year I would certainly think about trading up for Arden Key or drafting Harold Landry.

I think we do have the fortunate situation of having a stacked roster outside of defensive line and safety now, that they have no excuse but to invest in the line. Stop trying to get Marinelli to squeeze water from rocks.

I think the defensive line is going to continue to cost us games against playoff caliber teams.

There appears to be near unanimous disagreement with your concept through two pages. I've never seen so many people in agreement about a thread topic being wrong.

 

[haleyrules]

The FO seems more adapt at picking good offensive players. Its not that the club doesn't pick defensive players...its more like they don't pick the best ones available.

 

[haleyrules]

They've in vested in the DL. They simply haven't done as nearly as good a job as they've done with the OL.

Yep. Taking the best OL player coming out of college with the a high 1st round pick makes it a lot easier too.

 

[jazzcat22]

There appears to be near unanimous disagreement with your concept through two pages. I've never seen so many people in agreement about a thread topic being wrong.

It's called the twi - cowboys zone .......