For The TO Fans... A Highlight Video

bbgun

Benched
Messages
27,869
Reaction score
6
Hostile;2818118 said:
You've got to quit sending those lying things out man.

You saying I'm not a dead ringer for George Clooney? Boy, you think you know a guy.
 

Four

New Member
Messages
2,601
Reaction score
1
birdwells1;2818109 said:
This makes you sound really dumb.


apparently you don't read your own posts.

Nor do you apparently pay very much attention to the cowboys, or the game of football.

you think terrell being a big name earns him something, not in my book.
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
bbgun;2818125 said:
You saying I'm not a dead ringer for George Clooney? Boy, you think you know a guy.
Rosemary Clooney. Clean your ears out.
 

Four

New Member
Messages
2,601
Reaction score
1
Just to drive a point home, what was the last play of the 2007 season, who was romo's target, in double(maybe triple) coverage?

It sure wasn't terrell "hands of stone" owens.

it was a guy that hadn't played for pretty much the whole year, and tony still had more confidence in him than the great TO.

all owens did here was put up numbers, that doesn't mean jack.
 

theWave21

New Member
Messages
179
Reaction score
0
Yes it does mean something. It means when a team has an elite wide receiver, defenses must gameplan to stop him. This should create opportunities for others on the team, if the scheme is a good one. Didn't really see that down the stretch.

Teams that didn't gameplan to stop TO, like the 49ers as mentioned earlier, he lit them up and the offense rolled. If defenses can line up with 8 in the box this year, it's season over! If Roy can't beat single coverage like last year, it's season over! If Jason Garrett didn't make changes this year, it's season over! Having an elite receiver like TO makes everyone else's job easier, just remember that.
 

Rampage

Benched
Messages
24,117
Reaction score
2
theWave21;2818143 said:
Yes it does mean something. It means when a team has an elite wide receiver, defenses must gameplan to stop him. This should create opportunities for others on the team, if the scheme is a good one. Didn't really see that down the stretch.

Teams that didn't gameplan to stop TO, like the 49ers as mentioned earlier, he lit them up and the offense rolled. If defenses can line up with 8 in the box this year, it's season over! If Roy can't beat single coverage like last year, it's season over! If Jason Garrett didn't make changes this year, it's season over! Having an elite receiver like TO makes everyone else's job easier, just remember that.
:laugh2:
 

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.
Messages
25,266
Reaction score
17,597
theWave21;2818143 said:
Yes it does mean something. It means when a team has an elite wide receiver, defenses must gameplan to stop him. This should create opportunities for others on the team, if the scheme is a good one. Didn't really see that down the stretch.

Teams that didn't gameplan to stop TO, like the 49ers as mentioned earlier, he lit them up and the offense rolled. If defenses can line up with 8 in the box this year, it's season over! If Roy can't beat single coverage like last year, it's season over! If Jason Garrett didn't make changes this year, it's season over! Having an elite receiver like TO makes everyone else's job easier, just remember that.

Interesting theory. Reality tells a different story, though.

Not only did the Cowboys have an "elite receiver like TO" last season, they had TO himself. However, contrary to your conjecture, he didn't make anyone's life easier. Quite the opposite, actually -- he made everyone's life more difficult by being a whiny, divisive snit.

Furthermore, the Cowboys last season possessed every quality you enumerated yet it was still "season over!"
 

theWave21

New Member
Messages
179
Reaction score
0
I blame Wade Phillips and Jason Garrett more than anyone else for last year. Especially Garrett. When the players say other teams had their scheme figured out, it's over.

I'm not naive enough to think that TO's whining didn't cause problems, because it did, but i'm simply saying that life might be more difficult without him.
 

SultanOfSix

Star Power
Messages
12,956
Reaction score
8,174
Hoofbite;2817690 said:
Probably a good thing that wasn't what I was doing.

Just pointing out the games where he "disappeared".

Well, then it would only be fair to post images of where the whole offense disappeared, because it's probably all of those games as well.
 

birdwells1

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,837
Reaction score
4,074
ScipioCowboy;2818147 said:
Interesting theory. Reality tells a different story, though.

Not only did the Cowboys have an "elite receiver like TO" last season, they had TO himself. However, contrary to your conjecture, he didn't make anyone's life easier. Quite the opposite, actually -- he made everyone's life more difficult by being a whiny, divisive snit.

Furthermore, the Cowboys last season possessed every quality you enumerated yet it was still "season over!"


This more of an indictment of the OC than it is TO. With TO you were practically playing 10 against 9 and we still couldn't beat it.
 

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.
Messages
25,266
Reaction score
17,597
birdwells1;2818188 said:
This more of an indictment of the OC than it is TO. With TO you were practically playing 10 against 9 and we still couldn't beat it.

I have yet to give my full opinion on TO's departure, and you've provided me an excellent opportunity.

TO remains a good receiver; however, early last season, it became obvious he had lost the ability to beat double teams and press coverage consistently. The Green Bay Packers were the first team to expose this age-induced deficiency in TO's game; with safety help over the top, Charles Woodson jammed TO at the line, and he was held to a meager 2 receptions for 17 yards.

However, the Cowboys showed patience against Green Bay. Despite little offensive success early in the game, they were persistent with their running game -- Marion Barber and Felix Jones -- and relied on Miles Austin, who made two big plays downfield. The Cowboys pulled away in the final quarter, and won by a healthy margin.

The following week, Washington employed the same strategy, jamming TO at the line with safety help over the top. Unfortunately, the Cowboys did not demonstrate the same patience they had in the previous game: They ran the ball only 8 times; failed to give Felix Jones a single carry; and, did not incorporate Miles Austin until it was too late.

Did Garrett suddenly forget how to utilize his abundance of weapons? Of course not. He was trying to placate his mercurial but vociferously selfish wide receiver, who, despite being thrown to 20 times during the game, still managed to complain about a lack of opportunities. From there, the offense went on a downward spiral.

Unquestionably, TO creates opportunities for other players. But he must be willing to let other players take advantage of those opportunities and share in his spotlight -- especially when his skills are clearly detiorating.

You see, football is not only about gaining a strategic advantage. It's also about gaining a psychological advantage. By scheming to completely remove TO from ball distribution, opponents knew he would eventually combust and consume the entire team with his ire and discontent.

In order to become a balanced offense and utilize every weapon at their disposal, Jason Garrett and the Dallas Cowboys must be patient -- as they were against Green Bay. Unfortunately, TO was not going to let them be patient.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
theWave21;2818152 said:
I blame Wade Phillips and Jason Garrett more than anyone else for last year. Especially Garrett. When the players say other teams had their scheme figured out, it's over.

I'm not naive enough to think that TO's whining didn't cause problems, because it did, but i'm simply saying that life might be more difficult without him.

birdwells1;2818188 said:
This more of an indictment of the OC than it is TO. With TO you were practically playing 10 against 9 and we still couldn't beat it.

It must be very confusing for the two of you, then, that TO was sent packing at the front end of a big contract while the OC was retained. Wonder what that was all about?
 

Hostile

The Duke
Messages
119,565
Reaction score
4,544
ScipioCowboy;2818256 said:
I have yet to give my full opinion on TO's departure, and you've provided me an excellent opportunity.

TO remains a good receiver; however, early last season, it became obvious he had lost the ability to beat double teams and press coverage consistently. The Green Bay Packers were the first team to expose this age-induced deficiency in TO's game; with safety help over the top, Charles Woodson jammed TO at the line, and he was held to a meager 2 receptions for 17 yards.

However, the Cowboys showed patience against Green Bay. Despite little offensive success early in the game, they were persistent with their running game -- Marion Barber and Felix Jones -- and relied on Miles Austin, who made two big plays downfield. The Cowboys pulled away in the final quarter, and won by a healthy margin.

The following week, Washington employed the same strategy, jamming TO at the line with safety help over the top. Unfortunately, the Cowboys did not demonstrate the same patience they had in the previous game: They ran the ball only 8 times; failed to give Felix Jones a single carry; and, did not incorporate Miles Austin until it was too late.

Did Garrett suddenly forget how to utilize his abundance of weapons? Of course not. He was trying to placate his mercurial but vociferously selfish wide receiver, who, despite being thrown to 20 times during the game, still managed to complain about a lack of opportunities. From there, the offense went on a downward spiral.

Unquestionably, TO creates opportunities for other players. But he must be willing to let other players take advantage of those opportunities and share in his spotlight -- especially when his skills are clearly detiorating.

You see, football is not only about gaining a strategic advantage. It's also about gaining a psychological advantage. By scheming to completely remove TO from ball distribution, opponents knew he would eventually combust and consume the entire team with his ire and discontent.

In order to become a balanced offense and utilize every weapon at their disposal, Jason Garrett and the Dallas Cowboys must be patient -- as they were against Green Bay. Unfortunately, TO was not going to let them be patient.
Post of the day.
 

LeonDixson

Illegitimi non carborundum
Messages
12,299
Reaction score
6,808
ScipioCowboy;2818256 said:
I have yet to give my full opinion on TO's departure, and you've provided me an excellent opportunity.

TO remains a good receiver; however, early last season, it became obvious he had lost the ability to beat double teams and press coverage consistently. The Green Bay Packers were the first team to expose this age-induced deficiency in TO's game; with safety help over the top, Charles Woodson jammed TO at the line, and he was held to a meager 2 receptions for 17 yards.

However, the Cowboys showed patience against Green Bay. Despite little offensive success early in the game, they were persistent with their running game -- Marion Barber and Felix Jones -- and relied on Miles Austin, who made two big plays downfield. The Cowboys pulled away in the final quarter, and won by a healthy margin.

The following week, Washington employed the same strategy, jamming TO at the line with safety help over the top. Unfortunately, the Cowboys did not demonstrate the same patience they had in the previous game: They ran the ball only 8 times; failed to give Felix Jones a single carry; and, did not incorporate Miles Austin until it was too late.

Did Garrett suddenly forget how to utilize his abundance of weapons? Of course not. He was trying to placate his mercurial but vociferously selfish wide receiver, who, despite being thrown to 20 times during the game, still managed to complain about a lack of opportunities. From there, the offense went on a downward spiral.

Unquestionably, TO creates opportunities for other players. But he must be willing to let other players take advantage of those opportunities and share in his spotlight -- especially when his skills are clearly detiorating.

You see, football is not only about gaining a strategic advantage. It's also about gaining a psychological advantage. By scheming to completely remove TO from ball distribution, opponents knew he would eventually combust and consume the entire team with his ire and discontent.

In order to become a balanced offense and utilize every weapon at their disposal, Jason Garrett and the Dallas Cowboys must be patient -- as they were against Green Bay. Unfortunately, TO was not going to let them be patient.

Hostile;2818289 said:
Post of the day.

Plus 1!
 

bbgun

Benched
Messages
27,869
Reaction score
6
ScipioCowboy;2818256 said:
The Green Bay Packers were the first team to expose this age-induced deficiency in TO's game; with safety help over the top, Charles Woodson jammed TO at the line, and he was held to a meager 2 receptions for 17 yards.

And there were a number of instances when he wasn't "pressed" at all.

http://img198.*************/img198/1157/vlcsnap435178.jpg
 

TheDude

McLovin
Messages
12,203
Reaction score
10,671
ScipioCowboy;2818256 said:
I have yet to give my full opinion on TO's departure, and you've provided me an excellent opportunity.

TO remains a good receiver; however, early last season, it became obvious he had lost the ability to beat double teams and press coverage consistently. The Green Bay Packers were the first team to expose this age-induced deficiency in TO's game; with safety help over the top, Charles Woodson jammed TO at the line, and he was held to a meager 2 receptions for 17 yards.

However, the Cowboys showed patience against Green Bay. Despite little offensive success early in the game, they were persistent with their running game -- Marion Barber and Felix Jones -- and relied on Miles Austin, who made two big plays downfield. The Cowboys pulled away in the final quarter, and won by a healthy margin.

The following week, Washington employed the same strategy, jamming TO at the line with safety help over the top. Unfortunately, the Cowboys did not demonstrate the same patience they had in the previous game: They ran the ball only 8 times; failed to give Felix Jones a single carry; and, did not incorporate Miles Austin until it was too late.

Did Garrett suddenly forget how to utilize his abundance of weapons? Of course not. He was trying to placate his mercurial but vociferously selfish wide receiver, who, despite being thrown to 20 times during the game, still managed to complain about a lack of opportunities. From there, the offense went on a downward spiral.

Unquestionably, TO creates opportunities for other players. But he must be willing to let other players take advantage of those opportunities and share in his spotlight -- especially when his skills are clearly detiorating.

You see, football is not only about gaining a strategic advantage. It's also about gaining a psychological advantage. By scheming to completely remove TO from ball distribution, opponents knew he would eventually combust and consume the entire team with his ire and discontent.

In order to become a balanced offense and utilize every weapon at their disposal, Jason Garrett and the Dallas Cowboys must be patient -- as they were against Green Bay. Unfortunately, TO was not going to let them be patient.
While an interesting take, the season really didn't bear this out/

  1. The season was not lost was not lost on the Washington loss or due to GB's coverage. GB got torhed. If Washington mimicked them, why didn't the same occur? If Garrett changed his play calling because of TO, then he is not a leader and showed it more in that game than any other. The Def was atrocious that game.
  2. Any game with Brad Johnson is a throw away. Who lobbied for him and thought he could drive the bus?
  3. The Az game was a special teams disaster. KO for a TD to open and a blocked punt for a TD to end it. Smatter in 3 sacks and 3 fumbles (4 and 4 if not for the tuck rule).
  4. Pitt game was a pick 6 for a TD.
  5. Baltimore was a Punt to RW11 picked by Ed Reed followed by a "punt" to TO before the half, :09 left, that led to 3 points. Then Hamlins little ole helped to seal it. If that INT before the half were a punt, the score likely could have been Dall up by 1pt before the 2 70yd TDS - different game nonetheless
TO may have diminished some, but the offense as a whole underperformed except for FElix. Most due to the OC in my opinion, the remainder mostly from injuries and Romo "punts"
 

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.
Messages
25,266
Reaction score
17,597
McLovin;2818331 said:
While an interesting take, the season really didn't bear this out/
  1. The season was not lost was not lost on the Washington loss or due to GB's coverage. GB got torhed. If Washington mimicked them, why didn't the same occur? If Garrett changed his play calling because of TO, then he is not a leader and showed it more in that game than any other. The Def was atrocious that game.
I never stated that the season was "lost" after the Washington game or "due to GB's coverage." I asserted that the offense became less effective once GB revealed TO's inability to beat press coverage consistently and TO began complaining about a lack of opportunities.

And I explained quite thoroughly why the Cowboys had success against GB yet struggled against Washington. Against Green Bay, they were patient on offense, and relied on the running game. Against Washington, they were not patient; they ran the ball only 8 times (giving no carries to Felix Jones), and forced passes to TO in order to placate him.

In your criticism of JG for his management of TO, you conveniently omit these points: Two other teams have dismissed TO for his selfish and contentious behavior. One of those was the Philadelphia Eagles, who have one of the best coaching staffs in the NFL over the past decade. For whatever criticism you can heap on Garrett, he's certainly not alone and in very good company.

  1. Any game with Brad Johnson is a throw away. Who lobbied for him and thought he could drive the bus?
  2. The Az game was a special teams disaster. KO for a TD to open and a blocked punt for a TD to end it. Smatter in 3 sacks and 3 fumbles (4 and 4 if not for the tuck rule).
  3. Pitt game was a pick 6 for a TD.
  4. Baltimore was a Punt to RW11 picked by Ed Reed followed by a "punt" to TO before the half, :09 left, that led to 3 points. Then Hamlins little ole helped to seal it. If that INT before the half were a punt, the score likely could have been Dall up by 1pt before the 2 70yd TDS - different game nonetheless
TO may have diminished some, but the offense as a whole underperformed except for FElix. Most due to the OC in my opinion, the remainder mostly from injuries and Romo "punts"
Although your other points are interesting, they have absolutely no bearing on my argument. I'm only addressing why the offense struggled and why TO's departure was necessary for the offense to improve.
 

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.
Messages
25,266
Reaction score
17,597
Hostile;2818289 said:
Post of the day.

LeonDixson;2818293 said:


Thank you. Thank you.

I'd like to thank the Academy for their recognition. It's just such an honor.

I'd like to thank Hostile, WG, BP, and all the other mods for making this board such a wonderful place where creative ideas and posts can truly flourish.

Lastly and most importantly, I'd like to thank my wife for allotting me the 10 minutes to compose my post. None of this would've been possible without her sacrifice!:D
 

ScipioCowboy

More than meets the eye.
Messages
25,266
Reaction score
17,597
bbgun;2818296 said:
And there were a number of instances when he wasn't "pressed" at all.

http://img198.*************/img198/1157/vlcsnap435178.jpg

So you're saying that he just sucks?:D
 

Aikbach

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,746
Reaction score
42
TO just is a melodramatic presence, even when he doesn't intend it and in 2008 it became apparent that the tangibles of his services as a wideout were being surpassed by the media circus and locker room power plays he's prone to do, so it was decided his departure would be more beneficial than being on the roster in 2009; it really is that simple.
 
Top