For The TO Fans... A Highlight Video

[khiladi]

Well there were plenty of times when Owens got single coverage, and wasn't pressed, and there are a couple of pictures above to show some of it, when he didn't even beat the single coverage.I like Owens. I think he was great while here. But you trying to miminize Larry, and what he brings to the table, simply because you're feelings are hurt about TO being gone is crazy.

I'm sure the Steelers just decided to be nice in the second half and instead of continuing to double cover him they just decided to let him run free all over their secondary.

Because all defenses do that. They just decide, you know what we've shut this guy down long enough lets let him get the ball now.


Please.

1. One picture, as if that tells the whole story. I'm sure I can find one picture of LF in single coverage, where he didn't beat it.2. WHo is minimizing LF? Did you even pick up on what I said: "And further, to use Fitzgerald as an example to dis-prove TOs abilities has nothing to do with perspective. So what if Larry is a better WR now, if one even wants to argue it. That is like comparing RUBIES to EMERALDS, as if only one lacks value, when in fact both have value."3. The issue isn't minimizing LF, it is minimizing TO because LF happens to make catches in double-coverage.4. The fact is, LF made his catches in one-on-one coverage. The Steelers had to adjust their coverage on LF, because the ARizona COACHING STAFF was making them pay. That is the key words involved in this whole argument: COACHING STAFF... Garrett is no Haley, and it isn't saying much.You people act as if LF would have made this team great. He's been playing for how many years, and since when have they even made the play-offs?

 

[bbgun]

So you're saying that he just sucks?

Nah. I just find it hard to believe that 2008 was the first time opposing defenses thought to themselves, "Hey, let's press/jam him at the line and see what happens." All of a sudden, physical corners became his own personal kryptonite. What could Garrett do? Put him in motion more? It'll be interesting to see how RW11 handles the same kind of pressure.

 

[khiladi]

Really? He did? zero carries is actually more than 6? Cause that's what he had against the Skins was a whopping ZERO carries.


But, yeah, clearly Felix had more carries against Washington than Greenbay.

Mistake... Doesn't change the point... The Commanders controlled the TOP, rendering the situation between Green Bay and Commanders absurd. The Commanders scored 17 points in the second quarter. Dallas only TD came that half like it had all year long, with Tony Romo running the hurry-up. In the 3rd quarter, in which Dallas scored it's second TD, it was a FIVE play drive, and TO was thrown to THREE TIMES, SCORING THE TD. That was the first drive of the half, when a team comes with a plan to attack a defense. So I guess they were trying to force it to him? The play in the 3rd where Tony Romo threw the INT,NOT ONCE did they target TO, and the pass was actually intended for Miles Austin. Barber touched the ball that drive.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Huh? Felix Jones had six carries against Green Bay, and one of his carries he broke a 60 yard run. He had less carries against Green Bay than he did against the Commanders.

Incorrect. Felix Jones had zero carries against Washington. In fact, TO had more rushing attempts (two) against Washington than Felix Jones did.

http://www.nfl.com/players/felixjones/gamelogs?id=JON313929
http://www.jt-sw.com/football/boxes/index.nsf/Games/2008-04-was-dal

As far as incorporating Miles Austin in Green Bay, they incoroprated him late. He had two catches late, and theywere in single coverage. He came in the ball game late just as he did against the Commanders.What patience are you even talking about? The Commanders totally dominated the TOP by 17 minutes because they were running the ball. At the same time, the Cowboys did spread the ball, with Witten catching 7 passes and Crayton catching 7 passes. In the case of the Commanders, they didn't get beat by Miles Austin. How can one argue they were forcing the ball to TO when all the stats say otherwise?

Actually, the stats corroborate the very point I'm making.

In the first Washington game, TO was thrown to or given the ball a total of 20 times even though he was seldom open. Crayton and Witten were able to snag 7 catches a piece because Romo threw 47 passes -- a ridiculously high number that, once again, bolsters my point about the Cowboys lacking patience and persistence with the run because they were trying to appease one player.

Austin's first deep reception against Green Bay came in the third quarter, and set up Dallas's first second-half TD. Austin had single coverage because the Cowboys had been so persistent with the run -- this forced Green Bay's defense to play nearer the line, and created one-on-one match ups with the defense backs.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

1. One picture, as if that tells the whole story. I'm sure I can find one picture of LF in single coverage, where he didn't beat it.2. WHo is minimizing LF? Did you even pick up on what I said: "And further, to use Fitzgerald as an example to dis-prove TOs abilities has nothing to do with perspective. So what if Larry is a better WR now, if one even wants to argue it. That is like comparing RUBIES to EMERALDS, as if only one lacks value, when in fact both have value."3. The issue isn't minimizing LF, it is minimizing TO because LF happens to make catches in double-coverage.4. The fact is, LF made his catches in one-on-one coverage. The Steelers had to adjust their coverage on LF, because the ARizona COACHING STAFF was making them pay. That is the key words involved in this whole argument: COACHING STAFF... Garrett is no Haley, and it isn't saying much.You people act as if LF would have made this team great. He's been playing for how many years, and since when have they even made the play-offs?

He's been playing a lot less years than TO and has been to probably as many Playoff games and as many superbowls, on a far less talented team, than the ones TO has been on. So what's your point?

What exactly has Owens managed to bring to teams in terms of playoff victories? What does he have, two in his 13 years? You can't count the ones in Philly since they won those with him on the sidelines. So he doesn't get a lick of credit for those wins.

That point is ridiculus.

And wasn't Haley here while TO was? I'm pretty sure he had to leave after one year with Owens because Owens hated him so much. So now it's Garrett's fault that Haley isn't here anymore to gameplan better? Haley is suddenly such an offensive genius but he wasn't doing too much as the WR coach for Owens, other than finding a way to piss the guy off and find his way right out of Dallas.


I'm not taking anything away from Owens in what he accomplished this last year, or any year in Dallas. Or any year of his career for that matter. The guy was one of the best WR's to play. He's still one of the better WR's playing.

I don't dispute that. He's just not as good as LF or Andre Johnson. I'd take either of them over Owens any day of the week and be thrilled by it. Now, or ever.

But that doesn't mean I think Owens sucks.

 

[khiladi]

I actually want to correct a point as it relates to the Commanders game. Miles Austin against Green Bay wasn't utilized, except for two big strikes. They made a considerable effort to utilize him in the Commanders game, rendering the point that the Cowboys did not try and utilize him absurd.The first drive, he caught a ball for 13 yards, with TO catching the first pass for 7 yards on the first down. After the Miles Austin first down, Dallas tried to take a shot downfield in DOUBLE COVERAGE to TO. They wasted a down, putting the offense in a crappy 2nd and long situation. AS NORMAL, GARRETT CALLS THE PREDICTABLE RUN with Barber going for only 1, putting them in a 3rd and LONG. They go to Witten for 6.Absolutely horrible play-calling by Garrett and predictable, which didn't change the whole year.The very second drive, TO WAS NOT targetted even once. Barber ran twice in a row, once going for five, the second time for a negative one. Then Garrett tried a short route to Witten, which was incomplete. Again, they were in a 3rd and six, and Garrett shows his brilliance again.The next play, in a sexi play drive, TO was targetted 3 times. One of those was in the FLAT for no gain, which was a dumb play, because you can press with safety help over the top. Crayton got two passes getting a first down. On 1st down, Garrett instead of running, went to Bennett short for no gain, putting Dallas in a 2nd and 10. TO gets an END-AROUND called for him on a 2nd and 10. Wow... With all that yardage to go... Let us not forget that Garrett is having Romo operate in SHOTGUN the whole time. The very next play, they go to TO DEEP RIGHT, and it was incomplete, but TO WAS HELD.They get a TD on a Witten strike... So TO touched the ball three times, and they scored on the DRIVE...

 

[DallasEast]

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Did Garrett lose some of his ability to call the offense with the departure of Sparano? It can be argued that he did.

Did TO's ability deteriorate so much in one year, or did Garrett just not know how to exploit another team's weaknesses as other teams caught onto what he was trying to do?

It really is a moot point that the coaching staff abandoned its offense in order to appease TO. What does that say about the coaching staff then?

Once again, you're free to criticize the entire coaching staff for its handling of TO. It's a valid criticism. However, you should also understand this: Every coaching staff for which TO has ever played has had precisely the same set of problems with him, including the Philadelphia Eagles, who are widely regarded as one of the top coaching staffs in the NFL.

The Cowboys coaching is not alone and in good company.

Furthermore, Garrett demonstrated a level of patience and persistence with the run game against Green Bay that he did not demonstrate against Washington. This, in my opinion, was the result of trying to appease one highly vocal and selfish player.

Garrett may indeed lack the ability to utilize all his weapons effectively -- we're about to find out -- however, it became clear last season he would never be able to demonstrate that ability with TO on the roster.

 

[khiladi]

In the second quarter, Dallas had a 3 play drive. The first play they handed it off to Barber for 1 yard and Witten got six on the next play, with Springs actually deflecting the ball. The next pass, on a 3rd and 3 was a short pass to TO, while the coverage is most likely press. Again, stupid play-calling by Garrett.On the second drive, they targetted Ownes once on a short play. The next play on a 2nd and 10, again was a run to Barber for 3 yards. The very next play was an ICNOMPLETE PASS TO MILES AUSTIN against single coverage. the final drive, in which Dallas got a field goal, a single pass went to TO and he caught it for 4. Witten was also targetted once that drive and it was incomplete. The big chunk of yardage was Tony Romo scrambling and finding Crayton for 26 yards, which is testimony to the fact that Romo often overcomes the incompetence of Garrett. The next five passes were SHORT passing plays, pone to Barber and 4 to Crayton, indicating the Commanders were covering the deep and prevent.

 

[khiladi]

"Furthermore, Garrett demonstrated a level of patience and persistence with the run game against Green Bay that he did not demonstrate against Washington. This, in my opinion, was the result of trying to appease one highly vocal and selfish player."That is absolute BS. TO touched the ball rarely in the second quarter, when the Commanders absolutely dominated the TOP and came out with a 17 3 lead, before Romo took over on the last drive, as was often the case with this offense. The FIRST DRIVE OF THE THIRD QUARTER, the very play in which TO was the PRIMARY TARGET, and most likely was the result of Dallas using him correctly because they had a half to adjust, he caight 3 passes including the TD. Barber touched it twice, and this time Barber didn't run a single time on second. He put them back in the game. Dallas, when you look at the stats, targetted TO in a lot of situations where it was 3rd and long. He was targetted 4 times that down, had one first down and a catch for 9 yards. The pass he missed was a short slant play and a deep pass play in which Dallas needed 14 yards and it was an obvious pass play. The THIRD DRIVE, in which Tony Romo threw the INT, TO wasn't targetted once, and MILES AUSTIN was, but it was an INT.

 

[khiladi]

He's been playing a lot less years than TO and has been to probably as many Playoff games and as many superbowls, on a far less talented team, than the ones TO has been on. So what's your point?

What exactly has Owens managed to bring to teams in terms of playoff victories? What does he have, two in his 13 years? You can't count the ones in Philly since they won those with him on the sidelines. So he doesn't get a lick of credit for those wins.

That point is ridiculus.

And wasn't Haley here while TO was? I'm pretty sure he had to leave after one year with Owens because Owens hated him so much. So now it's Garrett's fault that Haley isn't here anymore to gameplan better? Haley is suddenly such an offensive genius but he wasn't doing too much as the WR coach for Owens, other than finding a way to piss the guy off and find his way right out of Dallas.


I'm not taking anything away from Owens in what he accomplished this last year, or any year in Dallas. Or any year of his career for that matter. The guy was one of the best WR's to play. He's still one of the better WR's playing.

I don't dispute that. He's just not as good as LF or Andre Johnson. I'd take either of them over Owens any day of the week and be thrilled by it. Now, or ever.


But that doesn't mean I think Owens sucks.

Dude, I'm not even going to continue to argue with you. You keep operating under ths paradigm as if I'm disputing the greatness of LF. The fact is, the standards people are criticizing TO for are being suspended when they come to LF. How many times do I need to repeat it for you? And BTW, Haley isn't that great either. And didn't you see him fight with Boldin on the sidelines? Haley got 80 receptions out of TO as well...

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I actually want to correct a point as it relates to the Commanders game. Miles Austin against Green Bay wasn't utilized, except for two big strikes. They made a considerable effort to utilize him in the Commanders game, rendering the point that the Cowboys did not try and utilize him absurd.The first drive, he caught a ball for 13 yards, with TO catching the first pass for 7 yards on the first down. After the Miles Austin first down, Dallas tried to take a shot downfield in DOUBLE COVERAGE to TO. They wasted a down, putting the offense in a crappy 2nd and long situation. AS NORMAL, GARRETT CALLS THE PREDICTABLE RUN with Barber going for only 1, putting them in a 3rd and LONG. They go to Witten for 6.Absolutely horrible play-calling by Garrett and predictable, which didn't change the whole year.The very second drive, TO WAS NOT targetted even once. Barber ran twice in a row, once going for five, the second time for a negative one. Then Garrett tried a short route to Witten, which was incomplete. Again, they were in a 3rd and six, and Garrett shows his brilliance again.The next play, in a sexi play drive, TO was targetted 3 times. One of those was in the FLAT for no gain, which was a dumb play, because you can press with safety help over the top. Crayton got two passes getting a first down. On 1st down, Garrett instead of running, went to Bennett short for no gain, putting Dallas in a 2nd and 10. TO gets an END-AROUND called for him on a 2nd and 10. Wow... With all that yardage to go... Let us not forget that Garrett is having Romo operate in SHOTGUN the whole time. The very next play, they go to TO DEEP RIGHT, and it was incomplete, but TO WAS HELD.They get a TD on a Witten strike... So TO touched the ball three times, and they scored on the DRIVE...

When a player has a 115 yards receiving and scores the game-clinching TD, it's fair to say he's been utilized...quite effectively, I should add. Unfortunately, the Cowboys did not utilize Austin anywhere near as effectively against Washington: Two of Austin's three receptions, 32 of his 45 yards receiving yards, and his lone TD came on the the Cowboys' last drive of the game when they were already down by two scores and it was essentially too late.

In fact, almost half of Witten's receiving yards for the game came during the last drive.

For the record, on the Cowboys' last offensive drive of the game, Austin was targeted three times; Witten was targeted three times; and, Owens was targeted twice.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playb...y_by_play&season=2008&week=REG4&override=true

 

[khiladi]

Dallas was dwon 26-17 in the fourth quarter and the first drive, they targetted TO all three times. And the way they targetted him speaks volumes of Garrett. In all three situations, Garrett operated out of the shot-gun limiting the way the defense had to defend the Cowboys. On second and ten, Dallas tried a short pass to TO and on 3rd, Garrett called a FADE to TO of all things.

 

[khiladi]

When a player has a 115 yards receiving and scores the game-clinching TD, it's fair to say he's been utilized...quite effectively, I should add. Unfortunately, the Cowboys did not utilize Austin anywhere near as effectively against Washington: Two of Austin's three receptions, 32 of his 45 yards receiving yards, and his lone TD came on the the Cowboys' last drive of the game when they were already down by two scores and it was essentially too late.

In fact, almost half of Witten's receiving yards for the game came during the last drive.

For the record, on the Cowboys' last offensive drive of the game, Austin was targeted three times; Witten was targeted three times; and, Owens was targeted twice.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playb...y_by_play&season=2008&week=REG4&override=true

Your argument makes no sense. He caught the ball twice for two big strikes, I believe in the 2nd half. That is the exact opposite of you trying to demonstrate the point, especially in the context of you trying to argue Garrett wanted to appease TO. It is called CATCHING THE PACKERS OFF-GUARD. Miles Austin GOT ALL HIS MINUTES against the Commanders, and he was targetted MORE, meaning THEY TRIED TO UTILIZE HIM MORE. He wasn't just targetted in that final drive, he was targetted multiple times and had plenty of time to make plays. On Dallas WORST offensive possessions, Miles Austin was targetted at least once. Miles Austin got his catches against the Commanders in GARBAGE TIME, and when he was called upon to make play in the 3rd, Romo threw an INT trying to GO TO HIM. What the argument demonstrates is that Garrett CONSISTENTLY HAD TO TRY AND GO BACK to TERRELL OWENS to make the offense MOVE. He RELIED on TO to make plays, because TO could make plays.

 

[khiladi]

"In fact, almost half of Witten's receiving yards for the game came during the last drive." It is the same point. That doesn't mean Witten wasn't targetted... He was in fact targetted about as much as TO. For example, on the first two drives, Witten was targetted at least once. Miles Austin was targetted as well. Owens was targetted twice the first drive, the first play him catching the ball for 7 yards. The second time he was targetted was a fly-pattern on first and ten, with man help on Owens. If anything, that is all on Garrett. On the SECOND DRIVE, TO wasn't targetted at all. Witten was and Miles Austin got his fare share.

 

[khiladi]

Launching the ball to TO on deep routes, while he is double-covered, on 3rd and long isn't called targetting TO, nor can one blame TO. Garrett should be called "2nd and Long" coach, because he always puts the team in un-manageable situations with his must score on one-play mentality.

 

[adbutcher]

Stop hogging the

 

[DallasEast]

Stop hogging the

There's nothing like a good old-fashioned Jason Garrett bashing to liven up the day. Say... pass the butter, will ya?

 

[ScipioCowboy]

"Furthermore, Garrett demonstrated a level of patience and persistence with the run game against Green Bay that he did not demonstrate against Washington. This, in my opinion, was the result of trying to appease one highly vocal and selfish player."That is absolute BS. TO touched the ball rarely in the second quarter, when the Commanders absolutely dominated the TOP and came out with a 17 3 lead, before Romo took over on the last drive, as was often the case with this offense. The FIRST DRIVE OF THE THIRD QUARTER, the very play in which TO was the PRIMARY TARGET, and most likely was the result of Dallas using him correctly because they had a half to adjust, he caight 3 passes including the TD. Barber touched it twice, and this time Barber didn't run a single time on second. He put them back in the game. Dallas, when you look at the stats, targetted TO in a lot of situations where it was 3rd and long. He was targetted 4 times that down, had one first down and a catch for 9 yards. The pass he missed was a short slant play and a deep pass play in which Dallas needed 14 yards and it was an obvious pass play. The THIRD DRIVE, in which Tony Romo threw the INT, TO wasn't targetted once, and MILES AUSTIN was, but it was an INT.

Actually, the point is fairly self-evident.

Barber received only 8 carries for the entire game against Washington, and the Cowboys had a paltry total of 11 rushing attempts if we count a seven yard scramble by Romo and the two ridiculous hand offs to TO.

Meanwhile, Romo targeted Owens 19 times with the pass -- you can tally the total yourself if you doubt me (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playb..._by_play&season=2008&week=REG4&override=true). In my opinion, when one receiver is thrown to more times than the entire team has rushing attempts and that receiver is struggling to get open, the coaching staff is clearly trying to appease him.

Now, let's contrast the offensive approach against Washington with the offensive approach against Green Bay. The Cowboys ran 35 times against the Packers with Barber getting 28 carries. It should be obvious that Garrett was far more persistent with the run against Green Bay than Washington...probably because he wasn't intent on placating one malcontent receiver.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Dallas was dwon 26-17 in the fourth quarter and the first drive, they targetted TO all three times. And the way they targetted him speaks volumes of Garrett. In all three situations, Garrett operated out of the shot-gun limiting the way the defense had to defend the Cowboys. On second and ten, Dallas tried a short pass to TO and on 3rd, Garrett called a FADE to TO of all things.

Actually, the Cowboys were down 23-17 during their first drive of the fourth quarter. They targeted Owens with three passes, and promptly went three and out -- which bolsters my entire argument.