For those that say no big deal with deflating a football

[Fritsch_the_cat]

Fumble stats weren't debunked, not the right word, but basically rendered useless in terms of this argument: http://regressing.********.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

Brad Johnson paying ball boys to do have balls scuffed, which would have the same effect - comfort and better grip - as deflating them: http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/...o-have-footballs-altered-before-sb-37/2214490

Aaron Rodgers tries to get balls overinflated, explicitly : http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

Jeff Blake saying it happened all over the place: https://sports.vice.com/en_us/artic...l-a-former-nfl-star-speaks-out-on-deflategate

I never said all QBs do something, but if all of this is as easy to find as a 2 minute google search, imagine how many other quarterbacks over the years have doctored balls....

But that's an "other guy" excuse. Brady was the one caught here.

A friend of mine was driving to work one morning, running along with other traffic when he was pulled over by a cop. He asked the cop, "Why did you pull me over, everyone else was running the same speed?" The cop asked him" Have you ever been fishing son". My friend told him "Yeah, sure". Cop asked him "Did you catch them all?"

 

[ConstantReboot]

Fumble stats weren't debunked, not the right word, but basically rendered useless in terms of this argument: http://regressing.********.com/why-those-statistics-about-the-patriots-fumbles-are-mos-1681805710

I tried that link. It didn't work. So I did my own google search and NOTHING comes up about the fumble theory being debunked.

However, there were several articles about why Brady could have had an advantage with deflating the balls and thats its to easier grip, lessening the chance to fumble. That theory still stand it seems. I guess they haven't read the article debunking the fumble theory just yet.

Brad Johnson paying ball boys to do have balls scuffed, which would have the same effect - comfort and better grip - as deflating them: http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/...o-have-footballs-altered-before-sb-37/2214490

Brad Johnson was in a different time with different rules. You can't be possibly using his case and comparing it to Brady?

Scuffing the ball did not entail secretly going into a bathroom after the refs weighed and inspected them and deflating them. Scuffing was warming up the ball and roughing it up a little so that BOTH QBs didn't have to face a shiny new ball.

IMO some ballboys still do that in some respect even today and I don't think its cheating. It maybe now perhaps. But not back then I doubt it. However, going into the bathroom and deflating the balls after the refs weighed them is considered cheating.

Aaron Rodgers tries to get balls overinflated, explicitly : http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

Go read the article once more. Aaron Rogers did not doctor the ball or paid someone to do it. It merely states that he likes his football overinflated compared to other QBs.

There is nothing in that article that states Aaron Rogers tried or attempted to do anything with the balls. He is just stating preference on how he likes the football to be which is overinflated.

I didn't bother to read the last article. Your argument is faulty and doesn't prove a thing. I know you must feel bad about Brady and its understandable since your a fan of his. But come on....he is guilty without a doubt. He got caught. He needs to be punished for cheating.

 

[BAT]

That directly contradicts what Aikman said -- and what Joe Montana said he and Aikman talked about privately -- after the scandal broke back in January.

And it is well known how much Aikman hated to throw wet balls because he squeezed it too tight which made him prone to fumble in rainy conditions. If he deflated the balls, he would have had a better grip. Old Cowboys fans know all too well that his grip on a wet football was bad news all through his career.

 

[Future]

I tried that link. It didn't work. So I did my own google search and NOTHING comes up about the fumble theory being debunked.

However, there were several articles about why Brady could have had an advantage with deflating the balls and thats its to easier grip, lessening the chance to fumble. That theory still stand it seems. I guess they haven't read the article debunking the fumble theory just yet.

I forgot that the site is blocked on this site. If you search "regressing deflategate fumbles" it's the first one.

Brad Johnson was in a different time with different rules. You can't be possibly using his case and comparing it to Brady?

Scuffing the ball did not entail secretly going into a bathroom after the refs weighed and inspected them and deflating them. Scuffing was warming up the ball and roughing it up a little so that BOTH QBs didn't have to face a shiny new ball.

IMO some ballboys still do that in some respect even today and I don't think its cheating. It maybe now perhaps. But not back then I doubt it. However, going into the bathroom and deflating the balls after the refs weighed them is considered cheating.

How is scuffing a ball any different than deflating it? It's the exact same thing. Where the ball gets scuffed/deflated is irrelevant.

Go read the article once more. Aaron Rogers did not doctor the ball or paid someone to do it. It merely states that he likes his football overinflated compared to other QBs.

There is nothing in that article that states Aaron Rogers tried or attempted to do anything with the balls. He is just stating preference on how he likes the football to be which is overinflated.

Uh, did you read it?
“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'”

I didn't bother to read the last article. Your argument is faulty and doesn't prove a thing. I know you must feel bad about Brady and its understandable since your a fan of his. But come on....he is guilty without a doubt. He got caught. He needs to be punished for cheating.

Didn't read the one that completely undermines the point. I'll summarize it for you.

A quarterback who played in the NFL for 13 years said: "If they were too hard, I was like, 'Hey man, this one's a little hard. Just take a little air out of it,'" Blake said. And so the equipment manager would "put the pin in it, take a little air out of it, and that's it. And I'd squeeze it, I'm like 'Okay, yeah, that's good,' and then we'd keep movin'. It was just that simple. It was nothing that was did under the table or did sneakily. That's just what we did. Everybody did. I played on six different teams. It was the same everywhere."

My point isn't saying Brady didn't cheat. Technically, sure, he did. Whatever. My point is that Tom Brady is being made a villain for something that really had no impact on winning and has been widely done around the league for years.

 

[Future]

But that's an "other guy" excuse. Brady was the one caught here.

A friend of mine was driving to work one morning, running along with other traffic when he was pulled over by a cop. He asked the cop, "Why did you pull me over, everyone else was running the same speed?" The cop asked him" Have you ever been fishing son". My friend told him "Yeah, sure". Cop asked him "Did you catch them all?"

Yea. Again, I don't really have a problem with Brady being punished - though I do think it was too extreme and the league did it just b/c they got caught with their pants down. I just have a problem with the way fans and certain media types are reacting to it with the whole "integrity of the game" nonsense.

 

[Fritsch_the_cat]

Yea. Again, I don't really have a problem with Brady being punished - though I do think it was too extreme and the league did it just b/c they got caught with their pants down. I just have a problem with the way fans and certain media types are reacting to it with the whole "integrity of the game" nonsense.

It's really not that big of a deal, in that lot's of other do similar things. If Brady had not put up so much of a fight and not tried to hide things and deny the obvious, I don't think they would have gave him or the team such a punishment. Their arrogance has been their own undoing here, in my opinion. It's not so much about what he did, but how they handled things afterwords.

Plus, Brady's agent calling the NFL corrupt is not helping his cause. After hearing what he said, I'd give Brady a full season off.

 

[BAT]

I forgot that the site is blocked on this site. If you search "regressing deflategate fumbles" it's the first one.

Brad Johnson was in a different time with different rules. You can't be possibly using his case and comparing it to Brady?


How is scuffing a ball any different than deflating it? It's the exact same thing. Where the ball gets scuffed/deflated is irrelevant.


Uh, did you read it?
“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'”


Didn't read the one that completely undermines the point. I'll summarize it for you.

A quarterback who played in the NFL for 13 years said: "If they were too hard, I was like, 'Hey man, this one's a little hard. Just take a little air out of it,'" Blake said. And so the equipment manager would "put the pin in it, take a little air out of it, and that's it. And I'd squeeze it, I'm like 'Okay, yeah, that's good,' and then we'd keep movin'. It was just that simple. It was nothing that was did under the table or did sneakily. That's just what we did. Everybody did. I played on six different teams. It was the same everywhere."

My point isn't saying Brady didn't cheat. Technically, sure, he did. Whatever. My point is that Tom Brady is being made a villain for something that really had no impact on winning and has been widely done around the league for years.

Brad Johnson conspired with Rich Gannon to scuff EVERY ball that was used in the SB, there was no advantage since BOTH teams used the same balls. Brady altered only the balls the Pats used, creating an advantage. How great the advantage is subjective and has no bearing in black letter law.

Fact remains, Brady was CAUGHT cheating/breaking a rule, then lied to cover it up. And even more QBs have come out and stated that what Brady did was cheating, never mind the multitudes at other positions stating the same.

When Brady's former teammates come out and say Brady cheated (Damien Woody, Willie McGinest) then it must be obvious to even the Brady apologists.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I forgot that the site is blocked on this site. If you search "regressing deflategate fumbles" it's the first one.

Don't bother. If its totally debunked it would have been all over the Internet. Its hardly anywhere except one blocked website. No major news source is debunking it so why bother reading it.

I
How is scuffing a ball any different than deflating it? It's the exact same thing. Where the ball gets scuffed/deflated is irrelevant.

Scuffing and deflating are absolutely two different things. What the article pointed out was the ballboys rubbing the ball with something to break it in so its not so shiny and new. It doesn't talk about deflating the ball and letting the air out. Quite possibly they did it openly for even the public to see and not in some bathroom. Totally different and its not the same thing.

Uh, did you read it?
“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'”

Yes I read it. Then the refs corrected it to its proper weight. Hence the statement "to see if the officials take air out of it." Rogers didn't have his ballboys go into the bathroom and adjust the air after it was weighed by the officials. Now that would be considered cheating.

Sorry dude your argument is going no where. You really haven't proven anything to anyone that makes them believe Brady is innocent. Facts are fact and you really need to read the Wells report. It really incriminates Brady. He knew it all along and he paid the ballboys to do it. Just because others have done it in the past does not excuse Brady of cheating whatsoever. Besides history always repeats itself. So once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

[DogFace]

I forgot that the site is blocked on this site. If you search "regressing deflategate fumbles" it's the first one.

Brad Johnson was in a different time with different rules. You can't be possibly using his case and comparing it to Brady?


How is scuffing a ball any different than deflating it? It's the exact same thing. Where the ball gets scuffed/deflated is irrelevant.


Uh, did you read it?
“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'”


Didn't read the one that completely undermines the point. I'll summarize it for you.

A quarterback who played in the NFL for 13 years said: "If they were too hard, I was like, 'Hey man, this one's a little hard. Just take a little air out of it,'" Blake said. And so the equipment manager would "put the pin in it, take a little air out of it, and that's it. And I'd squeeze it, I'm like 'Okay, yeah, that's good,' and then we'd keep movin'. It was just that simple. It was nothing that was did under the table or did sneakily. That's just what we did. Everybody did. I played on six different teams. It was the same everywhere."

My point isn't saying Brady didn't cheat. Technically, sure, he did. Whatever. My point is that Tom Brady is being made a villain for something that really had no impact on winning and has been widely done around the league for years.

Your intramural prowess should have lead you to knowing better than most everything you've said about deflating the balls not being important.

He wouldn't have done it if it wasn't important among many other reasons why it is. Mainly the fumbling which I still can't find any of your research on the subject.

ConstantReboot is correct.

 

[Future]

Don't bother. If its totally debunked it would have been all over the Internet. Its hardly anywhere except one blocked website. No major news source is debunking it so why bother reading it.

Dead spin...

Scuffing and deflating are absolutely two different things. What the article pointed out was the ballboys rubbing the ball with something to break it in so its not so shiny and new. It doesn't talk about deflating the ball and letting the air out. Quite possibly they did it openly for even the public to see and not in some bathroom. Totally different and its not the same thing.

Except for the fact that they are exactly the same thing. It's a matter of comfort, as there's no proof that there is any actual advantage to deflating balls. That doesn't change, regardless of where balls are deflated.

Yes I read it. Then the refs corrected it to its proper weight. Hence the statement "to see if the officials take air out of it." Rogers didn't have his ballboys go into the bathroom and adjust the air after it was weighed by the officials. Now that would be considered cheating.

Ok, and for Brady they just didn't catch it. Still the exact same thing.

Sorry dude your argument is going no where. You really haven't proven anything to anyone that makes them believe Brady is innocent. Facts are fact and you really need to read the Wells report. It really incriminates Brady. He knew it all along and he paid the ballboys to do it. Just because others have done it in the past does not excuse Brady of cheating whatsoever. Besides history always repeats itself. So once a cheater, always a cheater

For the umpteenth time, I'll say it again. My point is not that Brady didn't cheat.

And as for "argument going nowhere," the Wells Report also mentions that they don't know factually whether or not the balls were deflated in the Colts game, b/c they don't know the PSI that they started at. But you said you don't care about hte SportsScience thing, so I doubt you'll care about these facts either.

 

[Craig]

Everyone cheats. This is minor. Had he not lied or been evasive or whatever he did, he probably just gets fined.

 

[burmafrd]

Everyone cheats. This is minor. Had he not lied or been evasive or whatever he did, he probably just gets fined.

no not everyone cheats. That is the kind of sophic reasoning you can use to justify anything.

 

[CATCH17]

Did it give him an advantage? Yes.. How big of one? Well they won the Superbowl against the Seahawks without deflated footballs.

The Patriots just do stupid little things that don't give them a big enough edge to be worth the risk.

 

[Frozen700]

If we had our balls deflated a little do we go onto the NFC Championship game last season?

1. Does DeMarco fumble?
2. Does that ball come out of Dez's grip?

Does not change the fact that Murray lost us that game and made Dez have to play superman, or the fact the Dez let the ball hit the ground. Stretching for goal line or not, don't put your team or refs in that situation.

 

[DogFace]

Did it give him an advantage? Yes.. How big of one? Well they won the Superbowl against the Seahawks without deflated footballs.

The Patriots just do stupid little things that don't give them a big enough edge to be worth the risk.

Secretly recording teams practices and learning every play they will run for years isn't little imo. Neither is letting air out of the ball to the point where your fumbles dramatically decrease.

Yes. They do stupid things. Many dishonest cheaters do.

 

[hornitosmonster]

The real benefit was with the WR's catching the balls and RB's not fumbling. Regardless, it is cheating. And Brady won't sue (Donald Trump) because his phone records would be subpoenaed.

 

[CATCH17]

Secretly recording teams practices and learning every play they will run for years isn't little imo. Neither is letting air out of the ball to the point where your fumbles dramatically decrease.

Yes. They do stupid things. Many dishonest cheaters do.

Didn't Jimmy Johnson say all teams did that as well?

 

[DogFace]

Didn't Jimmy Johnson say all teams did that as well?

Never heard that.

All I do know is one of the greatest offensive teams, St. Louis, was shut down and the Rams players said the Pats knew every call and every play. I definitely never heard about a team doing that well in cheating.

They are now reapeat offenders and Known cheaters.

 

[erod]

If it's no big deal, then why did he do it, and why is there a rule?

 

[Future]

Didn't Jimmy Johnson say all teams did that as well?

More or less...he said it was one of the first things he was taught while he was in KC.

Never heard that.

All I do know is one of the greatest offensive teams, St. Louis, was shut down and the Rams players said the Pats knew every call and every play. I definitely never heard about a team doing that well in cheating.

They are now reapeat offenders and Known cheaters.

That's not what STL said. They said the Pats knew checks that had been worked on in walkthrough.