Free Agent DL

[Stash]

he was a 4-3 DE in college and considered one coming out.
not sure it matters tho, if we want to take health gambles we'll just bring back spencer.
i don't see any scenario where we'd pay orakpo more than other teams including the Commanders who know him best.

No. I wouldn't want to have to keep my fingers crossed that the guy I brought in to improve my pass rush will finally stay healthy.

 

[HappyOnions]

I'll take 3 decent guys out of that list instead of 1 stud like Suh or JPP who will likely cost more than those other 3 guys combined and then some.

I hate this idea that we need superstar, big-name players. For example, our LBs were pretty damn good this year and who were they? Justin Durant, 4th round pick Anthony Hitchens, Bruce Carter, and Rolando McClain...not exactly household names.

I just want to have a solid team. What happens if we spend a kings ransom on Suh and he decides he wants to get stomp-happy and gets himself suspended?

 

[jterrell]

No. I wouldn't want to have to keep my fingers crossed that the guy I brought in to improve my pass rush will finally stay healthy.

I don't think there is any doubt the team agrees with you which is why I think Orakpo is basically a non-discussion.
He was a UT guy and so there are fans here who know and love him but really he was about as anti-Cowboy as any other stinking pile of Commander and we'd probably have to 'Hatcher" him and BUY his loyalty.

Someone like Jerry Hughes makes tremendously more sense.

 

[Stash]

I don't think there is any doubt the team agrees with you which is why I think Orakpo is basically a non-discussion.
He was a UT guy and so there are fans here who know and love him but really he was about as anti-Cowboy as any other stinking pile of Commander and we'd probably have to 'Hatcher" him and BUY his loyalty.

Someone like Jerry Hughes makes tremendously more sense.

Agreed. Though, if he isn't further punished, Greg Hardy is my preferred choice.

 

[jterrell]

I'll take 3 decent guys out of that list instead of 1 stud like Suh or JPP who will likely cost more than those other 3 guys combined and then some.

I hate this idea that we need superstar, big-name players. For example, our LBs were pretty damn good this year and who were they? Justin Durant, 4th round pick Anthony Hitchens, Bruce Carter, and Rolando McClain...not exactly household names.

I just want to have a solid team. What happens if we spend a kings ransom on Suh and he decides he wants to get stomp-happy and gets himself suspended?

I don't think we are adding any player that signs a top 10 FA contract. --the 5 teams with the most cap cash have 250 million total between them.
I very seriously doubt Hardy or JPP or Suh are even on the radar for Dallas. Oakland taking on Hardy and JPP then moving to Carolina would make fiscal and player sense. Suh is probably either in Detroit or Seattle.
I do think we look at that second tier of DEs that are hard working good guys and are still relatively young but undeniably bring quality. And that won't be cheap like Mincey was.
We may see a fairly rich contract signed at DE tho I highly doubt it is 9-10m a year type money.

But fans are gonna work their way down the top options. It just is what it is and every off-season is long.

I believe your thought process is probaby right.
We need more DE's who can play. 1 starter is a pretty good bet but we also need at least 1 more rotational DE.
I'd see a deal for Jerry Hughes and then bring back Spencer and add a lower tier guy like Clayborne who can compete to give you 15-20 sacks per game.
So basically a couple guys competing in camp and 1 plus in starter that is still young and playing hard and staying out of trouble.
The monster signing is probably more old Jerry model.

End of the day I am glad to be working off a 13 win group and will give the team the benefit of the doubt in whatever it does. After eating our vitriol last off-season they've earned it.

 

[jterrell]

Agreed. Though, if he isn't further punished, Greg Hardy is my preferred choice.

of course but 32 teams agree with you.

 

[Stash]

of course but 32 teams agree with you.

A bit fewer than that I think.

First, we can eliminate the non-contenders (unless he's only about the money)

Second, eliminate the 3-4 teams as he's a 4-3 DE.

And thirdly, I think the high profile and no income tax of playing in Dallas is yet another advantage in their favor.

So, if the interest is there, and the money is close, I like our chances.

 

[xwalker]

A bit fewer than that I think.

First, we can eliminate the non-contenders (unless he's only about the money)

Second, eliminate the 3-4 teams as he's a 4-3 DE.

And thirdly, I think the high profile and no income tax of playing in Dallas is yet another advantage in their favor.

So, if the interest is there, and the money is close, I like our chances.

Good logic. If Carolina and the 3-4 teams are out then that's over half the teams. Then take out teams that are not in the market for an expensive DE and the list really narrows down. Of those there could be some that hold his off field issue against him. After that he might have to decide on more money with a bad team or a reasonable deal with a contender.

If he decides to sign a 1 year deal to get his value up for next year when the off field stuff is a distant memory, then that would like only be with a contending team.

 

[jterrell]

Good logic. If Carolina and the 3-4 teams are out then that's over half the teams. Then take out teams that are not in the market for an expensive DE and the list really narrows down. Of those there could be some that hold his off field issue against him. After that he might have to decide on more money with a bad team or a reasonable deal with a contender.

If he decides to sign a 1 year deal to get his value up for next year when the off field stuff is a distant memory, then that would like only be with a contending team.

the problem with that logic is none of it is that true.

1. Hardy can play a 3-4... And he'd upgrade every team in the NFL. He'd be an every down pass rusher but he can easily play a 3-4 pass rusher. He's essentially a younger Julius Peppers.
2. Hardy has made no real money yet in his career and just spent a fortune on a legal team. Of COURSE he wants the biggest deal possible.
3. Few teams have bigger concerns for off-field issues than Dallas. If anyone is writing him off for character it is us.

Anyone thinking he is a realistic Dallas target is just hoping beyond hope, not using logic at all. Nothing wrong with that but let's at least be honest about it and not lie to ourselves.

 

[Stash]

the problem with that logic is none of it is that true.

1. Hardy can play a 3-4... And he'd upgrade every team in the NFL. He'd be an every down pass rusher but he can easily play a 3-4 pass rusher. He's essentially a younger Julius Peppers.
2. Hardy has made no real money yet in his career and just spent a fortune on a legal team. Of COURSE he wants the biggest deal possible.
3. Few teams have bigger concerns for off-field issues than Dallas. If anyone is writing him off for character it is us.

Anyone thinking he is a realistic Dallas target is just hoping beyond hope, not using logic at all. Nothing wrong with that but let's at least be honest about it and not lie to ourselves.

I'll put money down on him not signing with a 3-4 team. He's not dropping into coverage as a 3-4 OLB.

Seriously? From the team that brought you Josh Brent we're now on a high horse for character and holding it against a guy who just had his case dismissed?

I don't see any reason why Dallas wouldn't consider signing him to fill it's clear-cut biggest position of need.

 

[Kaiser]

the problem with that logic is none of it is that true.

1. Hardy can play a 3-4... And he'd upgrade every team in the NFL. He'd be an every down pass rusher but he can easily play a 3-4 pass rusher. He's essentially a younger Julius Peppers.
2. Hardy has made no real money yet in his career and just spent a fortune on a legal team. Of COURSE he wants the biggest deal possible.
3. Few teams have bigger concerns for off-field issues than Dallas. If anyone is writing him off for character it is us.

Anyone thinking he is a realistic Dallas target is just hoping beyond hope, not using logic at all. Nothing wrong with that but let's at least be honest about it and not lie to ourselves.

I don't think you can make those assumptions.

1 - Hardy may or may not want to make the switch to a 3-4 and take on the coverage responsibilities.

2 - Hardy has made $15,600,000 in salary to date (probably more in endorsements) and his legal bills could not have cost more than a million. Its very likely the entire legal bill was in the 500K range instead.

3 - Hardy has always been considered a good clubhouse guy. The only "character issue" with him was this single accusation that was dismissed, that came from a girl who was on drugs at the time and contradicted herself in sworn testimony.

 

[jterrell]

I don't think you can make those assumptions.

1 - Hardy may or may not want to make the switch to a 3-4 and take on the coverage responsibilities.

2 - Hardy has made $15,600,000 in salary to date (probably more in endorsements) and his legal bills could not have cost more than a million. Its very likely the entire legal bill was in the 500K range instead.

3 - Hardy has always been considered a good clubhouse guy. The only "character issue" with him was this single accusation that was dismissed, that came from a girl who was on drugs at the time and contradicted herself in sworn testimony.

I never suggested Hardy wanted to switch schemes, I did suggest he could rush the passer in any scheme and that he wants to get paid a lot of money.
Feel free to argue those points.

15m in salary by NFL standard is absolutely nothing. And to be clear Hardy has NOT made 15m. He is lucky to have pocketed 5 or 6m.
If you think he is liable to take a low money deal to play for a contender you are dreaming.
He wants 15m a YEAR.

Hardy was not always considered a good guy. He was a wrong side of the tracks kid pulled out of a bad situation that followed Michael Oher around to High school then college to save him from trouble. The assault was an actual conviction. While the woman in question may be all of those things you accuse she was also very much assaulted and reported it at the time. Hardy is very fortunate these things have went away. There was MORE than one witness who detailed a number of troubling accusations including having assault rifles in the room during a number of domestic altercations. Again this was a conviction that was merely overturned after the woman no showed a year later.

Bottom line is Hardy is probably both too expensive and too much a character risk for Dallas to mess with him at all.
That is just reality.

 

[jterrell]

I'll put money down on him not signing with a 3-4 team. He's not dropping into coverage as a 3-4 OLB.

Seriously? From the team that brought you Josh Brent we're now on a high horse for character and holding it against a guy who just had his case dismissed?

I don't see any reason why Dallas wouldn't consider signing him to fill it's clear-cut biggest position of need.

long story short,,, not gonna happen.

might as well come to grips with it now.

Brent has a disease and accidentally killed someone while risking his own life.
Dallas stood by him as the family of the victim requested.

Hardy is not a Cowboy and was convicted a serious domestic charge. His charge was overturned because the victim no-showed later. --as happens in a large percentage of all domestic abuse situations. The info was easily out there that the guy was certifiably nutty.

But yes if Hardy wants to sign a 2 year deal foe the league minimum Dallas would give him that chance.

Dallas isn't going to consider it because of price. Same reason they didn't sign a high priced DE last year when it was our biggest position of need.

However much you are willing to bet Hardy won't sign with a 3-4 I am willing to triple in betting he won't sign here.

 

[Kaiser]

The assault was an actual conviction. While the woman in question may be all of those things you accuse she was also very much assaulted and reported it at the time.

The first statement is complete nonsense. The second statement is complete speculation with nothing to back it up but the statements of a girl who was coked up at the time and contradicted herself under oath about the accusation.

But I'm sick of the topic and they have been closing threads about it, so feel free to believe whatever you want.

 

[Kaiser]

Hardy is not a Cowboy and was convicted a serious domestic charge. His charge was overturned because the victim no-showed later. --as happens in a large percentage of all domestic abuse situations. The info was easily out there that the guy was certifiably nutty.

His charge was overturned because the DA thought she was an unreliable witness and knew he could never win the case at trial with her testimony as the sole evidence.

 

[jterrell]

His charge was overturned because the DA thought she was an unreliable witness and knew he could never win the case at trial with her testimony as the sole evidence.

That's not at all true.
Hardy made a settlement with the victim and she took off.
The district attorney said they couldn't find her.

And without her the testimony of the officers in the case would be hearsay.

Again, this was a case that was overturned and dismissed on appeal AFTER conviction, not a case that never went forward.

The NFL just filed to have all the court data sent to them and is doing it's own investigation before reinstating Hardy.

 

[jterrell]

The first statement is complete nonsense. The second statement is complete speculation with nothing to back it up but the statements of a girl who was coked up at the time and contradicted herself under oath about the accusation.

But I'm sick of the topic and they have been closing threads about it, so feel free to believe whatever you want.

you are posting insipid garbage.
you should be sick of that.

the woman was CLEARLY assaulted... by hardy or someone else. there is no denying that. she had a medical report in a hospital down 2 blocks from Hardy's home.

hardy was CONVICTED in this case. he had a right to appeal under state law and did... after reaching a settlement with the victim. and she was poof, gone so the conviction was overturned on appeal.

i am speculating (about public record evidence) yet you are putting forth that the victim was coked up all the time? good grief man.

 

[Stash]

long story short,,, not gonna happen.

might as well come to grips with it now.

Your opinion is duly noted.

Brent has a disease and accidentally killed someone while risking his own life.
Dallas stood by him as the family of the victim requested.

Spare me any time and yourself any efforts wasted in an attempt to defend Josh Brent.

Hardy is not a Cowboy and was convicted a serious domestic charge. His charge was overturned because the victim no-showed later. --as happens in a large percentage of all domestic abuse situations. The info was easily out there that the guy was certifiably nutty.

As is the evidence that the accuser (not victim) is a golddigger who used the money she obtained for vacations and shopping trips.

But yes if Hardy wants to sign a 2 year deal foe the league minimum Dallas would give him that chance.

Okay... So it's not a matter of morals but money then? Gotcha.

Dallas isn't going to consider it because of price. Same reason they didn't sign a high priced DE last year when it was our biggest position of need.

However much you are willing to bet Hardy won't sign with a 3-4 I am willing to triple in betting he won't sign here.

We can make some sort of friendly sig bet type wager if you really wanted to hammer out some fair parameters? Let me know.

 

[neosapien23]

I don't think there is any doubt the team agrees with you which is why I think Orakpo is basically a non-discussion.
He was a UT guy and so there are fans here who know and love him but really he was about as anti-Cowboy as any other stinking pile of Commander and we'd probably have to 'Hatcher" him and BUY his loyalty.

Someone like Jerry Hughes makes tremendously more sense.

I don't think Orakpo is going to break the bank like Hatcher did. I think Orakpo gets something like a 3 year 15 million dollar deal when its all said and done. Unlike Melton he produced a lot of years and will get more money up front but because of his three chest tears in his pecs, I don't think he will get anywhere close to being paid like a top Dlineman. Make no mistake about it, when healthy Orakpo is a game changer. I would be willing to bring him home to Texas for a midlevel free agent contract but nothing too outlandish.

 

[Stash]

I don't think Orakpo is going to break the bank like Hatcher did. I think Orakpo gets something like a 3 year 15 million dollar deal when its all said and done. Unlike Melton he produced a lot of years and will get more money up front but because of his three chest tears in his pecs, I don't think he will get anywhere close to being paid like a top Dlineman. Make no mistake about it, when healthy Orakpo is a game changer. I would be willing to bring him home to Texas for a midlevel free agent contract but nothing too outlandish.

Just curious, are you a Longhorns fan?