Free Agent DL

[Doc50]

no to hardy. no to orakpo who has played all his career as an OLB in 3-4.

Actually, Orakpo played his entire college career at Texas in the 4-3, and then initially at DC before they switched to the 3-4.
His game is probably better suited to DE, and his pec injuries are not career-threatening. Has a great work ethic, and would be worth a cheap look.

 

[jterrell]

I'm probably on the other side of the discussion on what Dallas will do in free agency. I look at it a bit differently. I believe that the draft is the way to build but also believe that Dallas is going to take the top guy on their board at 27 or trade down. Just don't believe it will necessary be a defense guy. Looking so far at the draft, it doesn't look to me their are many immediate impact guys that will be possibly available to us in either the 1st or 2nd round. Sure a guy could fall but you can't bank on it.

Also, this is so far one of the best free agent crop we have seen in quite a while. Some will resign, some will be franchised but overall it is going to be a good free agency period. The Cowboys are in good shape with the cap, at least before any signing of our own. Who we sign of our own is just mire speculation at this point.

The point for me is that we are going to improve the defense and I believe it is going to be in the form of someone(s) that can generate sacks and pressures on the QB. Personally, I don't believe any draft pick is going to be the answer, at least not right away.

So I believe we are going to be bigger players in free agency than most believe in the form of a DE, CB and then DT and/or possibly a OLB depending on who we sign of our own.

DE Hardy – will possibly know before March 10th his status but could see him as a cornerstone guy.
DE McPhee – could be a real sleeper that is great for a 4-3 but not breaking the bank for him.
DE Brandon Graham - was a very good 4-3 DE in college, wants to go back to 4-3, for the right contract I would sign him.
DE Orakpo – would like him over signing say Spencer back but only on a "show me" deal, to many injuries.
DE George Johnson – is he really starter material or a great backup.
DE Adrian Clayborn – only sign him to a short contract with big incentives.
DT Tyson Alualu - could see him as a quick 1-tech but not my 1st choice.
DT Stephen Paea – seems like a Marinelli guy and could flourish here.
DT Nick Fairley – great talent, limited mind, could Marinelli and Calvin Hill turn him the right way.
DT Devon Still – although a RFA, believe he is a no compensation sign because eventhough drafted in the 2nd was cut and went unclaimed and then signed to the PS, not sure on this but going to check closer, could have a huge upside.

I would go after Hardy (depending trial outcome) 1st, then McPhee and still sign Orakpo to a high incentive contract. On the DT front, Fairley would be the 1st choice after a Hill assessment, then Paea, then Still. Would like to have 2 DEs and one DT. Also if Davon House isn't resigned by Green bay at CB, I would go after him.

Long way to go before we see anything though.

I like some of the detail you've provided but as you note it would be opposite my take from a what will happen stand point.
A few notes:
1. Where Dallas i cap-wise only matters after they've resigned their own guys. It is truly pointless to say they are in great shape... and ignore Dez and others who we will absolutely hit the cap before a single free agent.
2. Dallas is VERY unlikely to be big free agent players. They've noted that the biggest thing they learned form this season was it pays to carry players that are young and hungry. Free agents by and large are overpaid and underperformers.
3. Dallas will add some DE help because they've got a hole there and a couple free agents they have middling interest in retaining.
4. CB is probably not a FA target. The team likes Moore and Patmon. They are going to have Scandrick and Mo this year. The only question is Carr and they are very unlikely to pay him to walk away then also pay a free agent. When they walk away from Carr it is because they have a better bargain on the roster... likely next year.

In the last 5 years about 5% of all fan takes come in at under what Dallas does in free agency. In other words the team almost never spends as much as fans suggest. This will be another of those years. And this time next year it will happen all over again.

 

[jterrell]

There are always "bargains" to be had, once the first 3-4 days of free agency pass.

Yup, but that particular season was one of market correction.
Those guys were definitely outliers.

I think Dallas will identify a DE to get in on early. After that they will bargain shop if they shop at all.
I do not suspect they want to add nearly as many players as people suggest.
They'll want to remain a young team.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Yup, but that particular season was one of market correction.
Those guys were definitely outliers.

I think Dallas will identify a DE to get in on early. After that they will bargain shop if they shop at all.
I do not suspect they want to add nearly as many players as people suggest.
They'll want to remain a young team.

Agreed.

They want to remain young and I think they want to avoid long, expensive contracts (i.e. Suh) that will be in place for a long time to come.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

In the last 5 years about 5% of all fan takes come in at under what Dallas does in free agency. In other words the team almost never spends as much as fans suggest. This will be another of those years. And this time next year it will happen all over again.

Agreed.

There are some fans here who are going to be very disappointed with what the Cowboys do during free agency.

I don't think an "All in" attitude exists.

I think it's a "Lets get better" attitude without screwing up the future salary structure of the team.

 

[jterrell]

Agreed.

There are some fans here who are going to be very disappointed with what the Cowboys do during free agency.

I don't think an "All in" attitude exists.

I think it's a "Lets get better" attitude without screwing up the future salary structure of the team.

Denver went all in and got worse....
When Jerry says he learned something you can take that as ample evidence of direction change.
A lot of what Jerry says is fluff but you can tell when he speaking gospel.
When he talks of being young and cheaper he means it.
Now can he be disciplined and stick with that in the face of someone like Greg Hardy at a position of need?
That is a million dollar question, but I do think we can rule out adding a handful of guys to trying to alter the starters drastically.

 

[xwalker]

Agreed.

There are some fans here who are going to be very disappointed with what the Cowboys do during free agency.

I don't think an "All in" attitude exists.

I think it's a "Lets get better" attitude without screwing up the future salary structure of the team.

They could sign the top free agent DT or DE and I would not consider that "All In". Denver signed 3 super expensive free agents last year, IIRC. One of them was a past his prime Ware at 32 years old.

 

[jterrell]

They could sign the top free agent DT or DE and I would not consider that "All In". Denver signed 3 super expensive free agents last year, IIRC. One of them was a past his prime Ware at 32 years old.

1 DL... even a big-name one would be a small FA window by standards of this board and even your own.
That's the point.

 

[jterrell]

They could sign the top free agent DT or DE and I would not consider that "All In". Denver signed 3 super expensive free agents last year, IIRC. One of them was a past his prime Ware at 32 years old.

Also there were 0 2013 free agent signed DL who had more sacks than Demarcus Ware last year.
ZERO.
He may have been past his prime but he was still a prime pass rusher.

 

[Idgit]

Yup, but that particular season was one of market correction.
Those guys were definitely outliers.

I think Dallas will identify a DE to get in on early. After that they will bargain shop if they shop at all.
I do not suspect they want to add nearly as many players as people suggest.
They'll want to remain a young team.

I think you're right. DL/DE is a likely exception, because there is a big need there, there are some young guys actually available in this group, and there really aren't going to be impact options in year one sitting there for us in the draft. So, if we get Dez and our LBs and role players done, I can see one significant deal on a young DL FA. Even then, though, we're going to rotate heavily up front again this year and we'll be adding more options in the draft.

I also think Marinelli really likes Carr, by the way, and we'll work something out on that front, too.

 

[xwalker]

Also there were 0 2013 free agent signed DL who had more sacks than Demarcus Ware last year.
ZERO.
He may have been past his prime but he was still a prime pass rusher.

The problem with Ware is that he only had 3 sacks in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. Mincey had 7 sacks in that same time frame.

 

[jterrell]

I think you're right. DL/DE is a likely exception, because there is a big need there, there are some young guys actually available in this group, and there really aren't going to be impact options in year one sitting there for us in the draft. So, if we get Dez and our LBs and role players done, I can see one significant deal on a young DL FA. Even then, though, we're going to rotate heavily up front again this year and we'll be adding more options in the draft.

I also think Marinelli really likes Carr, by the way, and we'll work something out on that front, too.

Last year Dallas looked at this as a rebuilding job. They probably expected to have a top 15 pick this year to use on a pass rusher.
Sitting at 27 with zero stomach for a trade up and with Selvie/Spencer coming off of invisible pressure seasons, they pretty much gotta sign a DE.

Lose Melton/Selvie and maybe Spencer so while they probably will go young just about everywhere else. DE simply has to have a proven NFL vet body.
That's a starting spot waiting to be filled. Stephen and Rod have both said that DE was priority one this off-season once they took care of their own.

 

[jterrell]

The problem with Ware is that he only had 3 sacks in the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. Mincey had 7 sacks in that same time frame.

Which means he had 7 in the first half and was considered a possible NFL defensive player of the year candidate.

Ware is what he is and has so many snaps in him per year.
He's still better than nay free agent DL last year.

And fans are still stupid if they think cutting him was smart... in hindsight.

 

[xwalker]

Which means he had 7 in the first half and was considered a possible NFL defensive player of the year candidate.

Ware is what he is and has so many snaps in him per year.
He's still better than nay free agent DL last year.

And fans are still stupid if they think cutting him was smart... in hindsight.

If they had kept him they probably wouldn't have signed Mincey. Mincey had 8 sacks so the net gain would have been 2 sacks by keeping Ware. It would have required 10M to keep Ware while Mincey's contract average 1.5M per year.

 

[jterrell]

If they had kept him they probably wouldn't have signed Mincey. Mincey had 8 sacks so the net gain would have been 2 sacks by keeping Ware. It would have required 10M to keep Ware while Mincey's contract average 1.5M per year.

No and no.
First, Dallas likely adds a DE either way. They obviously added a more than just Mincey and 1.5m a year wouldn't have priced Mincey out of Dallas.
Second, Ware had 10 regular season sacks, Mincey 6. Play off totals are irrelevant for comparison. They didn't play the same number of play off games and many players had zero playoff games. Denver had Mincey and went out and paid a fortune for Ware.
Ware would have cost us less last season to pay 10m and keep then to cut.

If Ware was released this off-season he'd shoot to the top of our FA DE list.
The only guy more talented is a crazy man that hasn't played in a year.

DE is the single biggest weakness on the team and we released a guy that is a future Hall of Famer and up til then lifelong Cowboy who had top 15 sack numbers this season.

Ware is a great team guy who is often credited with developing Tyron Smith's pass blocking skill.
He plays hard and plays hurt and doesn't take plays off.
He routinely beats the snot out of the OL all training camp.
It isn't hard to see why he wears down and what could combat that.

The people arguing second half of the season are lying to themselves.

It's like arguing Murray wasn't good because he fell off historic pace down he stretch
Demarcus Ware was once again a Pro Bowler and once again had double digit sacks.

 

[Kaiser]

If they had kept him they probably wouldn't have signed Mincey. Mincey had 8 sacks so the net gain would have been 2 sacks by keeping Ware. It would have required 10M to keep Ware while Mincey's contract average 1.5M per year.

And the price for Ware wasn't 1 year for 10MM, it was 3 years for 30MM. This year looks fine for Denver, lets wait and see on the next two. I was in favor of bringing Ware back at something like 3/20. At 3/30 I'm glad they let him walk. And I love Ware.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Actually, Orakpo played his entire college career at Texas in the 4-3, and then initially at DC before they switched to the 3-4.
His game is probably better suited to DE, and his pec injuries are not career-threatening. Has a great work ethic, and would be worth a cheap look.

I know he played 3-4 in college but coming out he was projected to be a 3-4 OLB as opposed to a DE. Same with DD. Ware, who was a DE in college and played 3-4 in pros, until his last year in dallas, where he got beat up.

so the question is where did Orakpo rank among DEs if he was to play in a 4-3 defense, compared to a 3-4 OLB. also, can he make the transition to a 4-3 successfully which is not always guaranteed. D-ware is a freak and he is bigger, so I am not so sure about orakpo, unless he is willing to come at a very reasonable price and with incentives.

 

[Oh_Canada]

[

No and no.
First, Dallas likely adds a DE either way. They obviously added a more than just Mincey and 1.5m a year wouldn't have priced Mincey out of Dallas.
Second, Ware had 10 regular season sacks, Mincey 6. Play off totals are irrelevant for comparison. They didn't play the same number of play off games and many players had zero playoff games. Denver had Mincey and went out and paid a fortune for Ware.
Ware would have cost us less last season to pay 10m and keep then to cut.

If Ware was released this off-season he'd shoot to the top of our FA DE list.
The only guy more talented is a crazy man that hasn't played in a year.

DE is the single biggest weakness on the team and we released a guy that is a future Hall of Famer and up til then lifelong Cowboy who had top 15 sack numbers this season.

Ware is a great team guy who is often credited with developing Tyron Smith's pass blocking skill.
He plays hard and plays hurt and doesn't take plays off.
He routinely beats the snot out of the OL all training camp.
It isn't hard to see why he wears down and what could combat that.

The people arguing second half of the season are lying to themselves.

It's like arguing Murray wasn't good because he fell off historic pace down he stretch
Demarcus Ware was once again a Pro Bowler and once again had double digit sacks.

Two sacks down the stretch and another disappearing act when it counts in a playoff game. Nice player in his prime, he is well past it.

 

[Nightman]

1 DL... even a big-name one would be a small FA window by standards of this board and even your own.
That's the point.

I will be one of the disappointed for sure. I agree that they will go conservative, but I disagree with the motives.

The media will protect them if they play it safe. The narrative is that Dallas is always in cap trouble and a spending spree will send them spiraling back to mediocrity.

Murray is as good as gone, Suh probably won't even get a visit, they know Dez can be franchised and that is an excuse to waste a lot of cap dollars. The money is there if they need it, but that is the big question.

They can restructure Romo, TSmith and Witten, but will more than likely only do Romo. Carr should be a June 1st cut if he doesn't agree to a big pay cut and Melton's option is a strong pass.

I predict they sign around 10 of their own FAs and probably one mid priced DE, one DT and maybe a speed guy WR5/KR

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I'd be more than fine with one big time free agent DLineman and our first pic being on the DLine