Garrett vs. Fisher

[Hoov]

You can have the robot with three 8-8 seasons. I'll take 3 straight NFCC and a SB appearance.

The robots team is improving - Harbaughs team is declining

 

[Doomsday101]

Of course, here comes Idgit comes in talking about absolutes, while arguing with me all last year the fault was the defense and our offense was such a stunning success and play-action has nothing to do with success and so on.. And here we are, the complaint is on all the "Jason Garrett hate"...

Maybe, just maybe some people need to concede something to OTHER than Garrett, as opposed to some 'process' of his and some vague phrases like 'RKG'... I'm all for not upsetting this dynamic of Jason chilling and clapping, as long as Linehan, Romo, Marinelli and men like Callahan can do their jobs...

I don't know anyone saying it is Garrett and Garrett alone. The topic is on Garrett and Fisher but Cowboys success should be a credit to many not 1 HC. I would think people would understand that a team that is successful is because many within the organization and the coaching staff. I thought Jimmy Johnson did a very good job here but it was not just Jimmy Johnson, it was Norv Turner, it was Dave Wannstead and then Butch Davis, it was assistant coaches and players. Winning is not a 1 man show in the NFL and should be enough credit to go around to many.

 

[Zman5]

Wait. They also didn't need multiple seasons to fix a culture that was full of mediocrity either. It took Garrett 4 years to change 14 years of a MESS. And it was truly 14 years. I know we had a 13-3 season but the culture wasn't great than at that time either and they also had 13 Pro Bowlers and were first round exits.

You guys and your Garrett agenda....I just don't get it. WHY wouldn't you want Garrett to work out? The players like to play for him....the coaches like to coach with him.....I just don't get it.

And I believe the OP put up Fisher and Garrett because EVERYONE fell for Fisher's overrated coaching history and wanted him here. He's done nothing but ruin the Rams franchise and gets out coached more often than not.

Do you even know what the culture of the 49ner was when Harbaugh took over?

 

[TellerMorrow34]

You can have the robot with three 8-8 seasons. I'll take 3 straight NFCC and a SB appearance.

I can understand that.

I do think that Harbaugh got lucky by inheriting a team with a pretty good defense and a good running back. He's done a nice job building a quality O-Line though and finding his QB. So he deserves respect for those things.

It would appear that Garrett needed a little time to get the type of players he wanted in here to do what he wanted here, at least from this season. He obviously had to rebuild an aging and bad O-line and he's helped to do that for sure. And that's been a huge improvement for this team that can't be over looked.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Do you even know what the culture of the 49ner was when Harbaugh took over?

Good point. That was a team that had guys like Vernon Davis quitting on them in games and acting like a fool.

Harbaugh had to change some of the culture there as well.

 

[rcaldw]

Why don't we all just admit what this is really about. Khiladi and Zman5 and a few others. If we are right about Garrett, you WERE WRONG. Isn't that really it? Let's make it simple and stop hiding behind the painfully distorted convoluted posts. You just don't want to admit it.... try it... it is liberating.... deep breath now, say it with me, "MY NAME IS ________ AND I WAS WRONG ABOUT JASON GARRETT. Then we will give you guys a pat on the back and we can continue on with a positive season.

 

[Zman5]

The robots team is improving - Harbaughs team is declining

I'm glad Cowboys are doing better but until I see the robot take us to the at least the NFCC game, I'll take Harbaugh over the robot.

 

[Zman5]

Why don't we all just admit what this is really about. Khiladi and Zman5 and a few others. If we are right about Garrett, you WERE WRONG. Isn't that really it? Let's make it simple and stop hiding behind the painfully distorted convoluted posts. You just don't want to admit it.... try it... it is liberating.... deep breath now, say it with me, "MY NAME IS ________ AND I WAS WRONG ABOUT JASON GARRETT. Then we will give you guys a pat on the back and we can continue on with a positive season.

And you've been wrong for 3 years. How many more years do you need to be right once?

 

[rcaldw]

And you've been wrong for 3 years. How many more years do you need to be right once?

I'm 5-1 right Go Cowboys!

 

[khiladi]

It would appear that Garrett needed a little time to get the type of players he wanted in here to do what he wanted here, at least from this season. He obviously had to rebuild an aging and bad O-line and he's helped to do that for sure. And that's been a huge improvement for this team that can't be over looked.

The OL is more Callahan than anybody else. Garrett brought in Houck and was running power-blocking schemes and his running game has always been awful. In 2009, Wade was essentially saying the offense needs to rely more on the run to help the defense out as well. And he wanted to bring in Dan Reeves. Remember, this issue of how to incorporate a running game and various schemes with the overall offense has been an issue with Garrett from the beginning. The main point being, to develop this line and what needed to be done, Dallas had to take responsibilities away from Garrett. If Garrett was not that great, than how does one expect him to 'build and offensive line'? We saw what they drafted during the years with Houck.

And Frederik was from Wisconsion and Callahan was OL coach there for many years and had ties there going way back. And Yakuza Rich mentioned that he's the guy that pushed the Cowboys to draft him. It should be mentioned that the Cowboys had Sharif Floyd on their boards as BPA and their was draft board confusion, with Marinelli saying no to him and Jerry pulling the trigger on Frederik at the last minute.

And Callahan was rifting with Garrett last year per reports and he was on the verge of walking out to an OC position with either the Ravens or Browns, but Jerry didn't even allow that to happen. Stephen even mentioned he wanted to leave. Jerry was admitting last year that Jason was calling the plays and wouldn't allow Callahan to do his job. And we all know what happened in the last game, when ever Orton chucked the ball over forty times a game.

Jerry took Garrett completely away from the offense and put him on the defense. And Jerry has been mentioning the Romo influence in game planning with Linehan as huge and what he envisions.

BTW, Callahan's contract runs out this year....

The point is, one has to give Jerry, Callahan and Linehan credit before they give it all to some PROCESS... There is a wide difference saying Garrett brings things to the table such as people loving to play for him than saying everything was part of his 'process'.

 

[Hoov]

I'm glad Cowboys are doing better but until I see the robot take us to the at least the NFCC game, I'll take Harbaugh over the robot.

Thats fine. But i dont think he's all that myself.

The point was to compare Garrett to someone better than Fisher and you threw Harbaugh out there. And his team is pretty loaded with talent but still the most penalized team and they are not really looking so good in the games i have watched.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Do you even know what the culture of the 49ner was when Harbaugh took over?

Weren't they 8-8 under Singletary who couldn't even coach outside of the linebacker position? There was no "culture" change IMO. What changed was all those draft picks maturing and getting better.

 

[Zman5]

I'm 5-1 right Go Cowboys!

I'll agree to Go Cowboys!

 

[khiladi]

Romo, the main feature of this team, was not maturing, but erratic and he was with here with Garrett for 8 years. He had stretches where he just carried the team on his back, but us getting by was mainly his talent alone than a coach working with him and developing him. Now, he's finally got that coach and play-caller.

All I ever wanted was a new offensive play-caller. A lot of changes we made were just to cover up incompetence on this end and it set us back.

 

[Zman5]

Thats fine. But i dont think he's all that myself.

The point was to compare Garrett to someone better than Fisher and you threw Harbaugh out there. And his team is pretty loaded with talent but still the most penalized team and they are not really looking so good in the games i have watched.

Ultimately wins and losses are the most important stat. There were several SB winners that were on the top of most penalized team for the season.

 

[rcaldw]

Romo, the main feature of this team, was not maturing, but erratic and he was with here with Garrett for 8 years. He had stretches where he just carried the team on his back, but us getting by was mainly his talent alone than a coach working with him and developing him. Now, he's finally got that coach and play-caller.

All I ever wanted was a new offensive play-caller. A lot of changes we made were just to cover up incompetence on this end and it set us back.

Look at the picture at the bottom of your posts.... that's about how many people are listening to you now. That is you on the megaphone and zman standing behind you , then Zman gets on the megaphone and you stand behind him

And I'm just having fun with you guys. You have the right to be wrong! Carry on.

 

[Zman5]

Weren't they 8-8 under Singletary who couldn't even coach outside of the linebacker position? There was no "culture" change IMO. What changed was all those draft picks maturing and getting better.

Go ask a SF fan it they think the 49ners would have gone to 3 NFCC and a SB if they would have kept Singletary and just waited until the draft picks matured and got better.

That's like saying Campo would have done as well as Parcells.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I disagree. Vince needs his share of the blame but Jeff Fisher treated him like he was a undrafted free agent. No other lottery pick quarterback who had Vince's success in the Win/Loss column would get yanked in and out of the lineup. Fisher is a idiot and he's holding the Rams back.

Vince Young's career since that time seems to indicate that Maybe Fisher was correct.

That was a battle of wills with Fisher being the Coach and doing what Coaches do (deciding which players play in a game) vs an Owner who wanting Young to play.

Is young playing today, even as a backup?

Nope.

There is a reason for that and it is not because Fisher pulled him.

I don't care if people don't think Fisher is great or even good.

However trying to justify Vince Young as being a NFL washout was not Fisher's fault. That was Vince Youngs fault and I will say I think Fisher was right before others realized it.

 

[Idgit]

Of course, here comes Idgit comes in talking about absolutes, while arguing with me all last year the fault was the defense and our offense was such a stunning success and play-action has nothing to do with success and so on.. And here we are, the complaint is on all the "Jason Garrett hate"...

Maybe, just maybe some people need to concede something to OTHER than Garrett, as opposed to some 'process' of his and some vague phrases like 'RKG'... I'm all for not upsetting this dynamic of Jason chilling and clapping, as long as Linehan, Romo, Marinelli and men like Callahan can do their jobs...

If by 'absolutes' you mean that your bad argument is absolutely hilarious, then, you're right. I think my argument boils down to 'words have meaning' and we should try to keep that in mind when it comes to words like 'changes.'

And this isn't the thread for it, but I'm happy to tackle an argument on play action and our defense wherever it's appropriate.

 

[rcaldw]

Vince Young's career since that time seems to indicate that Maybe Fisher was correct.

That was a battle of wills with Fisher being the Coach and doing what Coaches do (deciding which players play in a game) vs an Owner who wanting Young to play.

Is young playing today, even as a backup?

Nope.

There is a reason for that and it is not because Fisher pulled him.

I don't care if people don't think Fisher is great or even good.

However trying to justify Vince Young as being a NFL washout was not Fisher's fault. That was Vince Youngs fault and I will say I think Fisher was right before others realized it.

I agree Fisher was right about that. In terms of Young, you will never convince me that Vince didn't have the abilities to play the position. Even his passing ability was enough to play the position. Vince's problems were between his ears and I'm not talking about intelligence. He must have some personality issues.