Garrett vs. Fisher

[Doomsday101]

Let me get his right an offense of last season who was 5th in scoring points, has the HC hire a coach in Linehan whom he has worked with before and trust to run the offense and said HC is being asked to focus more on the defense? A defense mind you that was the worst in team history and now that defense whom most thought was garbage coming into the season has been playing well above expectations? Wow Garrett evidently should be getting a ton of credit. He handed Linehan an offense of unit that was already capable of putting up big points and now has this defense playing in the top 15?

 

[khiladi]

Go ask a SF fan it they think the 49ners would have gone to 3 NFCC and a SB if they would have kept Singletary and just waited until the draft picks matured and got better.

That's like saying Campo would have done as well as Parcells.

And Harbaugh didn't have Romo...

 

[btcutter]

ah, ok. The way you just dealt with Fisher is how all the Garrett critics have dealt with him? And on your second question, how many times have Garrett and Fisher faced each other as head coaches? How many times has Fisher won?

I don't know how many times they faced off against each other. But as far as I can remember every team we fielded were favorites against the Rams. Garrett has yet to convince me that he's a better coach based on his past history. Maybe I haven't watched enough of Fisher's games. But I do know Garrett has lost games for us based on his coaching not just his players executing.

 

[khiladi]

If by 'absolutes' you mean that your bad argument is absolutely hilarious, then, you're right. I think my argument boils down to 'words have meaning' and we should try to keep that in mind when it comes to words like 'changes.'

And this isn't the thread for it, but I'm happy to tackle an argument on play action and our defense wherever it's appropriate.

I just find it comical you sitting there still trying to defend your position, after all your past discussions with me... "tackle an argument" and by that, you mean me taking your past position and you taking my 'old' one?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Do you even know what the culture of the 49ner was when Harbaugh took over?

Harbaugh will not be there after this season...that should say something there.

I like Harbaugh...I don't know why he has rubbed the owner and some of his players wrong...but it seems he has and it looks like they will part ways.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Vince Young's career since that time seems to indicate that Maybe Fisher was correct.

That was a battle of wills with Fisher being the Coach and doing what Coaches do (deciding which players play in a game) vs an Owner who wanting Young to play.

Is young playing today, even as a backup?

Nope.

There is a reason for that and it is not because Fisher pulled him.

I don't care if people don't think Fisher is great or even good.

However trying to justify Vince Young as being a NFL washout was not Fisher's fault. That was Vince Youngs fault and I will say I think Fisher was right before others realized it.

He was doomed from the get go. You can't go through what he's gone through early in his career and then just work your way out of it.

In the NFL, its all about how you start. That's why RGIII is where he's at now because of that whole Shanahan nonsense. Vince should still be a Titan today. And as a starter. Look at Christian Ponder. His career is over. Blaine Gabbert's is over. These are all lottery picks of teams that handled the qb position horribly and threw them in there far too early.

I always wonder what type of career Romo would have had we threw him in there before Bledsoe. And then he had failed. Then what? You think they would've gave Romo another shot if he failed? You only get one.

Jeff Fisher is a terrible coach and he ruined Vince's career. I stand by that. No coach in their right mind would handle the qb position in Tennesee like he did. NONE. Fisher never wanted him from the jump and showed it. Very unprofessional. If Vince could've got with a QB friendly coach like a Harbaugh....who knows what his career could've became.

And i'm not excusing Vince completely either. He had his demons he had to work out himself but Fisher made it no better.

 

[khiladi]

Shanahan's never wanted to draft RG3, Danny wanted him. That is why they drafted Cousins so early in the same draft. And RG3 had his best year under the Shanny's offense. That same offense that people are blaming, is the very same one that gave him that ridiculous first year. The problem with RG3 was his inability to make the necessary progressions. This was even the reports in pre-season this year in traning camp and RG3 shouting in the off-season about how great the coaches are.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Go ask a SF fan it they think the 49ners would have gone to 3 NFCC and a SB if they would have kept Singletary and just waited until the draft picks matured and got better.

That's like saying Campo would have done as well as Parcells.

I never said they would. Harbaugh and that GM had great success together and CLEARLY Harbaugh is a better head coach than Singletary. My initial point was, there was no "culture change". It was simply a better head coaching change and draft picks flourishing. Singletary got a lot of those guys young in their career.

And Campo did get a unfair shake here. He was asked to turn crap into sugar and couldn't do it. Not to mention he was asked to do it with TERRIBLE drafting and free agent signings.

 

[Idgit]

I just find it comical you sitting there still trying to defend your position, after all your past discussions with me... "tackle an argument" and by that, you mean me taking your past position and you taking my 'old' one?

Don't know what this means, so I can't really respond to it. But I'm unaware of a single discussion I've ever had with you where you ended up right and I ended up wrong, if that helps.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

I'm not sure there's anybody who posts here who hasn't acknowledged that Jason's got some limitations or that he hasn't made his share of mistakes as Head Coach.

I disagree, and a few people immediately come to mind, but we're 5-1 and it's not worth squabbling back and forth about it.

 

[khiladi]

Don't know what this means, so I can't really respond to it. But I'm unaware of a single discussion I've ever had with you where you ended up right and I ended up wrong, if that helps.

And yet, your the one that keeps following me around, despite you always being 'right'... How could a man who is always so wrong bother you so much? Why you even talking about the offense now? I mean the only reason we sucked in the past was because of the defense per your words...

 

[Zman5]

Harbaugh will not be there after this season...that should say something there.

I like Harbaugh...I don't know why he has rubbed the owner and some of his players wrong...but it seems he has and it looks like they will part ways.

I get the feeling he's like Jimmy Johnson. Big ego. My way or the highway type. Nothing wrong with that. I'll take Johnson or Harbaugh for 3 years over JG for 8.

 

[khiladi]

I get the feeling he's like Jimmy Johnson. Big ego. My way or the highway type. Nothing wrong with that. I take Johnson or Harbaugh for 3 years over JG for 8.

If JG was working for anybody other than Jerry Jones, he would have been out the door... How you argue with 3 NFC championship games and 1 SB, playing with Seattle in that same division is pretty impressive...

Oh yeah, and switching QBs, to one whose QB intelligence is pretty damn questionable..

 

[DOUBLE WING]

I get the feeling he's like Jimmy Johnson. Big ego. My way or the highway type. Nothing wrong with that. I'll take Johnson or Harbaugh for 3 years over JG for 8.

The 49ers might just be a bunch of whiners too. None of them got along with Mike Singletary, so they can him and bring in Harbaugh who leads them to the top of the NFL, and they still aren't happy.

 

[Zman5]

I never said they would. Harbaugh and that GM had great success together and CLEARLY Harbaugh is a better head coach than Singletary. My initial point was, there was no "culture change". It was simply a better head coaching change and draft picks flourishing. Singletary got a lot of those guys young in their career.

And Campo did get a unfair shake here. He was asked to turn crap into sugar and couldn't do it. Not to mention he was asked to do it with TERRIBLE drafting and free agent signings.

There was a culture change. The team didn't buy into Singletary's ways but did buy into Harbaugh. As I said, ask a 49ner fan. I hear this all the time from my coworkers who are 49ners fans.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

He was doomed from the get go. You can't go through what he's gone through early in his career and then just work your way out of it.

In the NFL, its all about how you start. That's why RGIII is where he's at now because of that whole Shanahan nonsense. Vince should still be a Titan today. And as a starter. Look at Christian Ponder. His career is over. Blaine Gabbert's is over. These are all lottery picks of teams that handled the qb position horribly and threw them in there far too early.

I always wonder what type of career Romo would have had we threw him in there before Bledsoe. And then he had failed. Then what? You think they would've gave Romo another shot if he failed? You only get one.

Jeff Fisher is a terrible coach and he ruined Vince's career. I stand by that. No coach in their right mind would handle the qb position in Tennesee like he did. NONE. Fisher never wanted him from the jump and showed it. Very unprofessional. If Vince could've got with a QB friendly coach like a Harbaugh....who knows what his career could've became.

And i'm not excusing Vince completely either. He had his demons he had to work out himself but Fisher made it no better.

We can agree to disagree.

The only person that Vince Young has to blame is Vince Young.

 

[rcaldw]

I don't know how many times they faced off against each other. But as far as I can remember every team we fielded were favorites against the Rams. Garrett has yet to convince me that he's a better coach based on his past history. Maybe I haven't watched enough of Fisher's games. But I do know Garrett has lost games for us based on his coaching not just his players executing.

What is Garrett's win % now as a head coach (in a very young career).

Let me get his right an offense of last season who was 5th in scoring points, has the HC hire a coach in Linehan whom he has worked with before and trust to run the offense and said HC is being asked to focus more on the defense? A defense mind you that was the worst in team history and now that defense whom most thought was garbage coming into the season has been playing well above expectations? Wow Garrett evidently should be getting a ton of credit. He handed Linehan an offense of unit that was already capable of putting up big points and now has this defense playing in the top 15?

Just doesn't fit their narrative and they will never admit to it. Big Cone in hand, still barking... one guy in the background listening to him

 

[rcaldw]

We can agree to disagree.

The only person that Vince Young has to blame is Vince Young.

I agree with BP on this one and I'm a VY fan. VY sabotaged VY. Other teams gave him a chance after that and he washed out in those places too. Something just wasn't right, and it wasn't on the talent side. One of the things that happens to people in all walks of life is that they see their own talents but they don't recognize that they are still VERY BLESSED, and one or two circumstances away from losing what they take for granted. There are plenty of talented people around. The planet was spinning before you stepped foot on it and it will still be spinning (if the Lord wills) after you are gone from it.

 

[Doomsday101]

What is Garrett's win % now as a head coach (in a very young career). H


Just doesn't fit their narrative and they will never admit to it. Big Cone in hand, still barking... one guy in the background listening to him

No kidding yet it is the narrative they created themselves, Garrett is told to focus more on defense and now the defense, the same defense people said was a joke and would not do anything is playing well above expectations. One heck of a job. Jason is HC that means Offense, defense and special teams. When the staff and players fail it falls to the HC and same with success. Anyone claiming Jason is just standing there doing nothing all week long and in games really does not understand the dynamics involved.

 

[khiladi]

No kidding yet it is the narrative they created themselves, Garrett is told to focus more on defense and now the defense, the same defense people said was a joke and would not do anything is playing well above expectations. One heck of a job. Jason is HC that means Offense, defense and special teams. When the staff and players fail it falls to the HC and same with success. Anyone claiming Jason is just standing there doing nothing all week long and in games really does not understand the dynamics involved.

LOL, 'narrative'.. I said at the beginning of the year, the Cowboys would make the play-offs most likely, because of Linehan calling the plays and them being in the NFC East, despite Garrett being the HC.. This guy on the other hand talking about narrative was also saying he thought Garrett should have been fired last year. The other guy was telling me Jerry Jones is forcing stuff on Jason Garrett and Romo keeps audibling out of Garrett's run calles. Now, suddenly, it's the 'process'...

I mean even Jerry's words are right there, not anybody else's.. Why so mad? Jerry made the changes.