Garrett's 3 year plan

[Cebrin]

Yes, you have maintained that stance for some time.

That and your constant desire for more free agent CB's

SHOTS FIRED!!

​

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

True coaches make mistakes. However, that wasn't the first time we have abandoned the run. Other issues factor in then. However, there is no concrete proof that we wanted to become a more run oriented offense along. If thats the case Garrett would have started running the ball more last year and thats not including the Green Bay game.

I believe they planned on fixing the oline 3 years ago. But to protect Romo first and foremost. Thus the reason they drafted Frederick, which I believe was credited to Jerry.

If Garrett was hell bent on fixing this oline from the get go where was the draft picks to show for it? Why did we pick up scrubs to fill in the void when we got rid of the 09 oline? Costa and Arkin doesn't count. In fact, we had an aweful oline for many years and yet we didn't put any emphasis in drafting top linemens in the draft.

Thus my assumption is as logical as anyone that knows football. Romo was the main reason why they decided they needed an oline and not because they wanted to run the ball. The unexpected effect just happens to be that we become pretty good at running the ball. It took Linehan to come here for this team to realize that. That isn't a bad thing. This isn't a knock on Garrett or Jerry at all and it shouldn't be. Just consider us lucky that all the pieces started to come together when we finally got Linehan on board and him knowing the true nature of this offense.

I can see how you think this way and Im not really disagreeing with you, but I think you are giving Linehan too much credit and not enough to Garrett. I tend to give Linehan more credit than some but wouldnt go quite as far as you.

 

[jobberone]

I think they wanted to get younger and better on the online. However I don't know if he had as much to do with us taking three online men in the first as the author indicates. Tyron yes. The other two.... Hard to give him credit of going into the draft with the idea of taking those two in the first.

I am not sure who they really wanted in the first during the Frederick draft. Not sure if it was a D linemen, safety or O linemen. Water the case I think Fred was a fall back option and not the main target going in or even the top 2-3 targets but that is speculation on my part.

What is not speculation on my part is that Martin was not their target going in. We don't know of if Donal, Barr or Shazier was the top target but we do know that Martin was not and we do know they picking Shazier as they had him or his agent on the phone when Pittsburgh picked him before they could. After that happened Jerry wanted Manziel but thankfully was talked into taking Martin.

So all though he probably was the driving force to get younger, to get some older vets with large contracts off the team, to revamp the other line... Not sure he should get a great deal of credit for us going on line in the first round for all three picks.

I agree. The stars aligned correctly. Still they did pick those players who are yet developing. If the pass blocking gets better then you may be looking at one of the best OLs I've ever seen in a long time.

 

[jrumann59]

Personally I think that the relationship between JG and JJ is still in its early stages. I think JJ mettles still and JG probably gives in to the "Boss" so that he can then play the "we did it your way, now lets do it my way". If that is the case hopefully JG has a way to unwind because I can see that being an ever stressful and thankless job. Was drafting Martin and Fred his number 1 goal in the last two drafts, I doubt it but when Plans A,B,C fall through you take what the draft is going to give you. In past drafts we would reach with our #1 picks because we needed something. It takes a plan to say, "We need to draft DL" and when it comes time to draft there are no DL worth taking you fall back and take the next area you see you could use help which was OL. I give McvClay, S. jones and Garrett credit we could be talking about the wasted pick that JFF would have been this year.

 

[ConstantReboot]

You can assume whatever you like , you're wrong, but I'm ok with that. And I am glad that all the pieces have come together.

Wrong on what? Based on your opinion? Yes Im glad all the pieces are coming together and I couldn't be happier.

 

[ConstantReboot]

You can assume whatever you like , you're wrong, but I'm ok with that. And I am glad that all the pieces have come together.

Wrong on what? Based on your opinion? Yes Im glad all the pieces are coming together and I couldn't be happier.

I can see how you think this way and Im not really disagreeing with you, but I think you are giving Linehan too much credit and not enough to Garrett. I tend to give Linehan more credit than some but wouldnt go quite as far as you.

No problem.....we can agree to disagree. However, I do give credit to where it belongs the most - thats with Linehan.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I'm not a big one for running the ball a lot, anyway, but this just isn't true. Jason's been talking about being a physical team and running the ball more since he's gotten here. And he's systematically gone about shedding older OLs, bringing younger players in, bringing in FA OGs in, and drafting multiple OLs at the top of the draft. He's also changed OL blocking schemes here in his short time to get the fit he's wanted. People just didn't believe him because they didn't see the evidence of us running the balls in disadvantageous situations. It's only been this season that we've been able to convert a third and short on the ground, or to run effectively against 8 man fronts, after all.

I see your point. I just haven't heard anything Garrett mentioning that we need to run the ball until 2014 came along and a new OC decided to feature the run. I also base it on action rather than words. Why did we wait so long until we realized we need to fix the oline? We kept Costa around for years and stated he was a bust - even as a UDFA. I also didn't understand why we kept Arkin for so long? It was not until Jerry signed Romo's contract that we decide to invest heavily on the oline. Make that two years in a row. Even word was in this forum that the Cowboys were interested in drafting Martin because of his ability to pass protect.

Action speaks louder than words. If they really wanted to build a superior running game all these years they sure didn't back it up in the draft.

 

[ConstantReboot]

Again, as I said, it isn't about the specific players, but about dedicating resources in the draft towards the offensive line.

The plan wasn't let's spend 3 first round draft picks on offensive linemen. But getting offensive linemen in the 1st and 2nd, and maybe even 3rd round... yeah, that was the plan.

I have a lot of problems with Garrett's so called 3 year plan, as it basically completely ignored the defense, and in those three years we drafted yet another tight end in the 2nd round without the fortitude to use them as promised.

The front office has not been consistent under Garrett.

I think alot of people here have forgotten that the 3 year plan also included Costa as a potential probowler one day and a draft pick from a small school named Arkin. I don't their was ever a plan to put together an oline for which Murray to be our focal point on offense. Thank god Linehan came in and changed things around to make this a run dominated offense and its working.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Thank god Linehan came in and changed things around to make this a run dominated offense and its working.

so your working theory is Jerry Jones overruled the head coach and hired an OC he doesn't want in order to implement an offensive attack he doesn't endorse. You believe that is the atmosphere that has elevated the Cowboys to 5-1 and flying high in the NFC?

 

[reddyuta]

Zach martin was like the 4th option for us in the 1st rd but i am sure we would have drafted a guard later if we drafted somebody like AAron donald ,the only sure fire part of this "plan" is Tyron smith.

 

[ConstantReboot]

so your working theory is Jerry Jones overruled the head coach and hired an OC he doesn't want in order to implement an offensive attack he doesn't endorse. You believe that is the atmosphere that has elevated the Cowboys to 5-1 and flying high in the NFC?

I didn't say Jerry overruled anyone. Im that our oline was built to protect Romo first and foremost and was what Jerry intended to do after the contract. They didn't realize then that they could actually run the ball pretty well behind this oline until Linehan can in and took over. Im just giving more credit to where its due IMO, thats all.......

 

[Eric_Boyer]

I didn't say Jerry overruled anyone. Im that our oline was built to protect Romo first and foremost and was what Jerry intended to do after the contract. They didn't realize then that they could actually run the ball pretty well behind this oline until Linehan can in and took over. Im just giving more credit to where its due IMO, thats all.......

1) We didn't have this oline last year. young people are a year older, and we added another 1st round talent. Different line, different year. different results.

2) I'm not about to give Jerry Jones credit outside of what he has always done - listen to the people he hires.

 

[gmoney112]

Jason is the perfect compliment to Jerry. He understands it's not about "competition" but about collaboration.

In this instance, if you're dealing with a stubborn old fogey in Jerry with way too much money, and a need to feel like he has the "final" decision as well as media attention, you do what Jason has probably figured out already. When presenting your argument, bring buckshot. Meaning, have enough evidence to outline your view that only a fool would turn it down, and present it objectively to Jerry because he's going to analyze everything. He wouldn't be a billionaire if he didn't.

All in all, he wants to win but he's also a flashy *******. You have to make him convince himself to make the smart moves. Now that we're actually starting to win, I think Jerry is going to be less apt to try and insert his own influence into personnel moves, which is a good thing.

 

[Doomsay]

Jason's plan to incrementally remove himself from all football operations has finally borne fruit in year 4.

 

[CF74]

Jeff Sullivan article:

Sullivan: Garrett’s 3-Year Plan Among Random Thoughts
Posted 10 hours ago

• This didn't happen overnight. It's being portrayed that way, like the Cowboys have been just plugging along, status quo these last three years, and wow, how did this happen?

I recall Garrett saying we were in a rebuilding stage, even argued with some about it, many denied it, but didn't realize he put a 3 year time table on it. I was thinking it would take 4 years, glad we are so much closer now...

 

[Idgit]

I see your point. I just haven't heard anything Garrett mentioning that we need to run the ball until 2014 came along and a new OC decided to feature the run. I also base it on action rather than words. Why did we wait so long until we realized we need to fix the oline? We kept Costa around for years and stated he was a bust - even as a UDFA. I also didn't understand why we kept Arkin for so long? It was not until Jerry signed Romo's contract that we decide to invest heavily on the oline. Make that two years in a row. Even word was in this forum that the Cowboys were interested in drafting Martin because of his ability to pass protect.

Action speaks louder than words. If they really wanted to build a superior running game all these years they sure didn't back it up in the draft.

Well, they released three OL starters his first offseason, when they pretty much immediately started the process. Then they drafted Tyron in 2011, which was the first time in years that they'd gone OL in round one. Then did it again two of the next three years. I don't see how anybody can fairly say their actions didn't match their words. It was just that they also had huge holes in the secondary during that same time. And they went the route early of drafting OTs where you have to draft them and trying to develop OGs from the middle rounds (before Costa, they also had Nagy who they thought could potentially play OC for them). They also brought in Parnell and Montrae Holland that season. But people forget that was the year after they jettisoned, not just Gurode, but Brewster, and Alex Barron, and Leonard Davis and Pat McQuistan. There were a lot of bad players on that line they inherited from that 2010 season. That was an OL in need of some help.

That's one of the things that I really like about Garrett's tenure: they don't mess around with acquiring players. When they have resources--picks or FA dollars--they spend them. And then when they don't, they churn the heck out of the position group until they find pieces that fit. If they don't get a fit, they then use next year's resources to address it. That's what I think you saw with the interior OL. They tried to get lucky with late/mid-round picks (Nagy, Kowolski, Costa, Leary). When that was derailed by multiple injuries, they went the value FA route (that offseason was the CBA offseason where we were strapped) with Livings and Bernadeau. Throw Waters in that group from last season, because he's basically the same deal. Doing that, they filled one spot and basically another with Bernadeau before they decided to use the Martin pick again on the interior. I'd say that's a significant commitment.

They're doing the same thing at DL as we speak, by the way. Finding Selvie from that group of 20 last season. Melton and McClain and Okoye and Spencer as VFAs this year. Drafting and trying to develop a mid-rounder in Crawford. Coleman and Bishop and Gardener are in the Nagy-Costa late-round flyer mode. And Lawrence is the first of what I think will be two or three high DL picks in the coming years. And they're still churning the bottom of that position group as we speak.

However you look at it, they've been successful with what they did offensively here. It doesn't really matter if it took a year or two longer to get there, you have to credit them for executing a plan there. The defense is still a work in progress, but it's maybe a lot further along than any of us dared to hope when the season started out. That doesn't just happen by luck. And I don't care how lucky you are, you don't luck your way to 5-1 in this league. We're seeing a plan here. It might not end up working out, but it's a big stretch to suggest that it's not part of a plan.

 

[dfan32]

a lot missing in that piece. like gaede said the d-coordinators carousel, nagy, costa, killer kowalski, holland, waters, dockery.

You can't snap your fingers and become young and excellent. That may be why he said it would take some time to REBUILD the OL. A little patience can go a long way. And if you hire a defensive coordinator and it doesn't work out for whatever the reason, I would suggest a change would be prudent. Could be that his preference simply wasn't available and trial and error was the only option.

 

[maxdallasfan]

JG has built a young team to be competitive for the next 4-5 years.

The 2016 draft will see Romo's successor wearing a star.

 

[dfan32]

Well, they released three OL starters his first offseason, when they pretty much immediately started the process. Then they drafted Tyron in 2011, which was the first time in years that they'd gone OL in round one. Then did it again two of the next three years. I don't see how anybody can fairly say their actions didn't match their words. It was just that they also had huge holes in the secondary during that same time. And they went the route early of drafting OTs where you have to draft them and trying to develop OGs from the middle rounds (before Costa, they also had Nagy who they thought could potentially play OC for them). They also brought in Parnell and Montrae Holland that season. But people forget that was the year after they jettisoned, not just Gurode, but Brewster, and Alex Barron, and Leonard Davis and Pat McQuistan. There were a lot of bad players on that line they inherited from that 2010 season. That was an OL in need of some help.

That's one of the things that I really like about Garrett's tenure: they don't mess around with acquiring players. When they have resources--picks or FA dollars--they spend them. And then when they don't, they churn the heck out of the position group until they find pieces that fit. If they don't get a fit, they then use next year's resources to address it. That's what I think you saw with the interior OL. They tried to get lucky with late/mid-round picks (Nagy, Kowolski, Costa, Leary). When that was derailed by multiple injuries, they went the value FA route (that offseason was the CBA offseason where we were strapped) with Livings and Bernadeau. Throw Waters in that group from last season, because he's basically the same deal. Doing that, they filled one spot and basically another with Bernadeau before they decided to use the Martin pick again on the interior. I'd say that's a significant commitment.

They're doing the same thing at DL as we speak, by the way. Finding Selvie from that group of 20 last season. Melton and McClain and Okoye and Spencer as VFAs this year. Drafting and trying to develop a mid-rounder in Crawford. Coleman and Bishop and Gardener are in the Nagy-Costa late-round flyer mode. And Lawrence is the first of what I think will be two or three high DL picks in the coming years. And they're still churning the bottom of that position group as we speak.

However you look at it, they've been successful with what they did offensively here. It doesn't really matter if it took a year or two longer to get there, you have to credit them for executing a plan there. The defense is still a work in progress, but it's maybe a lot further along than any of us dared to hope when the season started out. That doesn't just happen by luck. And I don't care how lucky you are, you don't luck your way to 5-1 in this league. We're seeing a plan here. It might not end up working out, but it's a big stretch to suggest that it's not part of a plan.

Not only that but it appears to be a plan that has longterm strategies that will be sustainable. Ups and downs are inevitable but if Garrett is extended it will be a long time before we see this franchise hit a low like the one we've just been thru.

 

[Idgit]

Not only that but it appears to be a plan that has longterm strategies that will be sustainable. Ups and downs are inevitable but if Garrett is extended it will be a long time before we see this franchise hit a low like the one we've just been thru.

Barring difficulties at the QB position, I agree. That's the one area where a team can end up wasting resources, and you can really only develop them by giving them lots and lots of snaps. So it's really rough if you whiff on your guy because you lose the pick and the time invested. But, yeah, I think we're getting the process down and the young talent we've added the last three years is getting to that sweet spot in their careers where they're really paying dividends. It's so big right now that we're getting good defensive play from that gang of cast-offs and never-weres.