General Managers with the highest percentage of draft picks to make 1+ Pro Bowls.

[TheMarathonContinues]

What guys have made the Pro Bowl under Jerry who didn't deserve it? Cowboys do a very good job of drafting in the 1st round. I Think that's a incredibly underrated from Jerry and co. Teams don't hit on 1st rounders like that and the Cowboys rarely have top 10 picks to do it.

 

[Tabascocat]

Facts are sometimes annoying.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-distribution-of-fandom-in-pro-leagues/

Yup, still America's Team

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Please explain to me how Jerry Reese is a glorified chancellor. Or how Dave Gettleman is that? Or Kevin Colbert?

Mike Brown is about the only tangible equivalent to Jerry Jones in the NFL.

Normal is still normal, meaning the majority of the teams in the NFL.

Jerry Jones has said it time and time again, he has a unique system. Right from his very mouth. Yet, people keep trying to suggest it is normal.

It is laughable.

It's unique in the title.

The Mara family has had a policy of not firing GMs for near a century at this point; the one before Reese lasted 40 years and Reese is going nowhere despite multiple years of poo poo. Mara, Snyder, Rooney, Richardson, the late Bud Adams, etc all have meddled just as much as Jerry has. Draft, free agency, you name it.

 

[Chuck 54]

So let me get this right.

Jerry drafts good players based solely on who the head coach is, but other GMs must be out there making their selections entirely on their own without input from coaches and scouts, so Jerry gets no credit....okay.

Let's not forget that most GMs, including Jerry Jones, are responsible for hiring the head coach and the guys who run the scouting departments, and it's up to the GM how much he listens to and values the input he receives before making decisions on the draft.

Like any GM, Jerry deserves a lot of credit for drafting good players, hiring good people, and building a great organization as it operated in the 90's and as it is operating today. He also deserves the blame for that long stretch of 5-11 and 8-8.

But Jerry Jones is no fool; he learns; he adapts and changes; he wants to win. There isn't an owner in the NFL I'd swap for Jerry, and right now, I'd have to really study to determine if there's a GM I'd swap him for. Give all the credit you want to him learning from past coaches or past failures; give all the credit you want to Garrett, McClay, Stephen Jones, or the scouts, Jerry is ultimately responsible for all of them being here, for his own learning, and even for checking his ego and listening or promoting others to power.

Jerry Jones deserves credit.

 

[adbutcher]

So let me get this right.

Jerry drafts good players based solely on who the head coach is, but other GMs must be out there making their selections entirely on their own without input from coaches and scouts, so Jerry gets no credit....okay.

Let's not forget that most GMs, including Jerry Jones, are responsible for hiring the head coach and the guys who run the scouting departments, and it's up to the GM how much he listens to and values the input he receives before making decisions on the draft.

Like any GM, Jerry deserves a lot of credit for drafting good players, hiring good people, and building a great organization as it operated in the 90's and as it is operating today. He also deserves the blame for that long stretch of 5-11 and 8-8.

But Jerry Jones is no fool; he learns; he adapts and changes; he wants to win. There isn't an owner in the NFL I'd swap for Jerry, and right now, I'd have to really study to determine if there's a GM I'd swap him for. Give all the credit you want to him learning from past coaches or past failures; give all the credit you want to Garrett, McClay, Stephen Jones, or the scouts, Jerry is ultimately responsible for all of them being here, for his own learning, and even for checking his ego and listening or promoting others to power.

Jerry Jones deserves credit.

When people hate they hate relentlessly, the object of the hate cannot do anything good. They can rescue a basket of puppies and old ladies from going over a waterfall but the hater would be standing there to tell them you didn't manage to keep them from getting wet.

 

[iceberg]

When people hate they hate relentlessly, the object of the hate cannot do anything good. They can rescue a basket of puppies and old ladies from going over a waterfall but the hater would be standing there to tell them you didn't manage to keep them from getting wet.

well it's not just the anti-jerry crowd. we all tend to fall into a rut of how we feel about something and it usually takes something pretty big to force how something is viewed before a change even could be made. i know i do it just not on this particular topic.

it's like justbob was going on a tear about yesterday - and while i kinda stepped in the middle of that one and had to back up a bit, while he was talking about hardy and everything has already been said, well jones is the same way.

in 10+ years i've not heard a "new" argument for or against jones.

use stats? hardly. stats are the biggest lie out there.
use decisions? hardly. one side will twist it back their way and the other, won't allow it and do the same.

so yea, in this regard everything has been said about jones too. if someone says something positive about jones, i can tell you who's alarm has been set off and like clockwork, they're here to counter with one of 10 stamped answers. all that said, if we're to end arguments and discussions around nothing new possibly being able to be said, jones discussions would be on the top of that list.

hardy is just this weeks flavor.

 

[Longboysfan]

Maybe perception isn't reality after all.

Like voting in Chicago.... After you're dead?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

It again proves to me how overrated the GM position is and how the HC position is more important. As I've said for a long time and have been skewered for it here, finding talent has never been the Cowboys' problem under Jerry Jones. Sub-standard coaching and knowing how to assemble the talent together so you get the Pro Bowlers doing the things they do best game-after-game has been the larger issue. That and our ability to turn a good player into a megastar and then the player resting on his laurels and not being nearly as productive again (of course, that also ties into coaching).

I was thinking about this the other day...the Cowboys should strive to pay FA's *less* than they do other teams. Why? Because Dallas is a far larger market than most of the NFL and the money outside of the NFL thru endorsements, appearances, etc. and the future that comes with that (more appearances and endorsements means that the player is now more marketable when he retires) can override a slightly larger contract. Also, no state income tax in the NFL. They'll still get income tax for those 8-road games, but it's still saved money over big market teams like New York, San Francisco, New England, etc.

It appears that we are finally getting that. And it appears that Jay Ratliff's behavior may have been the straw that broke the camel's back and made us change how we do contracts for players. But, the issue hasn't been finding talent in the draft.




YR

 

[HoosierCowboy]

if Jones was 30th on the list, the haters would be all over it--stick to the stat at hand without deconstructing it--under Jones' watch, the
cowboys have drafted a higher % of PB players than anyone else--that's all it says

 

[Crown Royal]

Good stuff on this page.

Look, Jerry is hated because of his treatment of Johnson and his handling of the team between 1996-2002. And he deserves the derision for all of that - it was the worst time in his entire career. But at this point, people haven't let go of that. Parcells was brought in and although didn't have the success we wanted, he had to completely rebuild the culture and roster. Wade Phillips took that roster and actually generated some value out of it (he was, after all, a more winning head coach in both the regular season AND playoffs than Parcells). Unfortunately Wade wasn't a great leader and couldn't assemble a team very well, and Jerry is as good as his staff around him.

THe chief thing is that people still hold it against Jerry for "meddling." The reality is that he is the GM and it is his job to make decisions. The other fact is that he has ALWAYS listened to the counsel of those around him. That is not new at all. The only difference is the people to whom he listens, and his advisors now are very, very good.

Hating a guy dogmatically because of something he did 20 years ago is extreme. I had a professor who always had a test for overly dogmatic thinking: take your position and come up with a list of things that could prove you wrong. If the list is very short or unrealistic, your thinking is likely not based on logic.

 

[Hostile]

Of course not. But they don't suddenly change their direction or perspective based on who the head coach is.

This GM does. That is what happens when that GM cannot judge talent on his own.

There usually is a general thought process and above all else, a consistent approach to talent evaluation and how it relates to the direction of the franchise.

That's not true at all.

So you mean if a competent GM had been acquiring players for a coach who preferred a west coast passing attack and he was fired and a coach was brought in who favored an aerial downfield passing attack that the GM would continue to acquire west coast players?

Come on man.

"We want you as our Head Coach, but you can't bring your West Coast Offense and 3-4 Defense here. We don't play that way." --No GM ever

 

[Crown Royal]

"We want you as our Head Coach, but you can't bring your West Coast Offense and 3-4 Defense here. We don't play that way." --No GM ever

Actually that was how Al David ran things. He wanted certain types of players to play in a certain scheme overall. Deviation got you fired. That's pretty much the extreme of what @Alexander is asking for.

 

[Crown Royal]

I would say that successful GMs regularly adjust their acquisition to both the feedback from their coaching and scouting staffs, the nature of the league and their 3-4 year strategies. Ozzie David and Ted Thompson, who have been considered very good GMs, have certainly changed their acquisition strategies from time to time.

 

[DallasEast]

Hating a guy dogmatically because of something he did 20 years ago is extreme.

I disagree. People contemplate what they believe is right or wrong all the time. However, people voicing their dislike without fail or interruption for twenty years is extreme unless the dislike is presented by the media. The latter sensationalizes the dislike for personal gain while being perpetually pissed off is the sole motivation for the former.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Actually that was how Al David ran things. He wanted certain types of players to play in a certain scheme overall. Deviation got you fired. That's pretty much the extreme of what @Alexander is asking for.

Not what he is asking for.... It's what he is saying the good GMs of our league are doing.

Which of course is not true.

 

[Crown Royal]

I disagree. People contemplate what they believe is right or wrong all the time. However, people voicing their dislike without fail or interruption for twenty years is extreme unless the dislike is presented by the media. The latter sensationalizes the dislike for personal gain while being perpetually pissed off is the sole motivation for the former.

You're probably right, but it's the individual agents' responsibility to control that for themselves.

 

[Hostile]

Actually that was how Al David ran things. He wanted certain types of players to play in a certain scheme overall. Deviation got you fired. That's pretty much the extreme of what @Alexander is asking for.

The Steelers do it a little too, to a lesser degree. However, both teams have hired coaches who changed things. For example, Chuck Noll was a 4-3 guy all the way. Steel Curtain. The Steelers changed to a 3-4 in the Cowher years. Jon Gruden brought the West Coast Offense to Oakland, whereas before him Davis told the Coaches "Go vertical," meaning throw it deep.

All teams and therefore all GMs do adapt to what their Head Coaches want. To think otherwise is to be an ostrich with head in sand because you don't want to see the scary truth.

 

[Crown Royal]

The Steelers do it a little too, to a lesser degree. However, both teams have hired coaches who changed things. For example, Chuck Noll was a 4-3 guy all the way. Steel Curtain. The Steelers changed to a 3-4 in the Cowher years. Jon Gruden brought the West Coast Offense to Oakland, whereas before him Davis told the Coaches "Go vertical," meaning throw it deep.

All teams and therefore all GMs do adapt to what their Head Coaches want. To think otherwise is to be an ostrich with head in sand because you don't want to see the scary truth.

Gruden played a very stretch-the-field version of the west coast and got traded, so I'm going to still go with my statement.

I agree completely on the steelers...but that comes from never changing your coaching staff if you can help it.

 

[Hostile]

Gruden played a very stretch-the-field version of the west coast and got traded, so I'm going to still go with my statement.

I agree completely on the steelers...but that comes from never changing your coaching staff if you can help it.

True on the Steelers. Again though, let's say they fire Tomlin at the end of this year or he retires. No one can tell me that if they want a guy as Head Coach that they aren't going to let him run the schemes that he wants even if it means they change their scouting directives.

Gruden's timing pass system was very different than Mike White's system.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

His drafts were terrible pre-Parcells. As big of an issue as any other. When a guy goes into a draft thinking he should devote 12 picks to backups and special teams players that guy is a monumental buffoon. It was year after year of failing to add talent through the draft that led to the depleted roster Parcells inherited.

He has had a few occasions in his career where he believed the team was so talented that they didn't need to worry about adding more talented guys to push the talented starters and instead went for just getting depth or back ups.

I agree with you here that things like that were obvious and caused the talent on the team to disappear very quickly.