George Zimmerman charged with 2nd degree murder of Trayvon Martin **Read Post #142**

[casmith07]

In OJ's case, there was some question as to who the killer was (at least initially).

In this case, it is clear who the killer was.

Particularly when the guy admits to the shooting.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Particularly when the guy admits to the shooting.

But the shooting isn't the issue here. It's the justification behind it, right?

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

Does anyone feel sorry for Zimmerman?

For me it depends on if he is telling the truth. If it really was Self Defense than I feel sorry for him.


But if it's 2nd degree like they think that it is then I do not. Because if he is all about what he is going through and how he is suffering knowing that he didn't kill in Self Defense and is shows no remorse for killing Trayvon or causing his family pain then it doesn't make him look like a good person.

 

[cajuncocoa]

It just seems to me that there are some (not necessarily here, and I'm not going to be anymore specific than that) who are more interested in revenge than justice.

Just sayin'.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I've deliberately avoided this thread. Based on my understanding of the case, Zimmerman seems to be guilty of 2nd degree murder.

However, I despise when people are tried and convicted in the court of public opinion before a jury even hears the case. See Simpson, OJ. People decided he was guilty before any arguments were made, and only one verdict was going to placate them.

For the record, I'm not speculating as to OJ's guilt or innocence. It's simply that I prefer to leave those matters to the court system.

In all seriousness, OJ was guilty. This was definately one where the legal system failed for a variety of reasons.

 

[WoodysGirl]

For the interested or bored, click here for a PDF of the full affadavit.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

In all seriousness, OJ was guilty. This was definately one where the legal system failed for a variety of reasons.

OJ may have been guilty, but juries make decisions based on evidence. Right?

And if the evidence wasn't sufficient to convict him, it doesn't matter whether or not he really did it. I felt the same way about Casey Anthony.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

It just seems to me that there are some (not necessarily here, and I'm not going to be anymore specific than that) who are more interested in revenge than justice.

Just sayin'.

How is the legal system not a watered down version of revenge? Revenge would be having Zimmerman run for his life or fight for his life only to be shot and really outside of crazy extremist, no one wants that.

Wanting Zimmerman to be held accountable for what he did isn't anymore vengefull than any other criminal trial.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

OJ may have been guilty, but juries make decisions based on evidence. Right?

And if the evidence wasn't sufficient to convict him, it doesn't matter whether or not he really did it. I felt the same way about Casey Anthony.

I get what you're saying, and in an ideal world yes, but realistically, OJ was found innocent because the lead detective was a racist and then got caught lying about it, which fit right in to the whole planted evidence angle the defense was aiming for.

 

[AbeBeta]

But the shooting isn't the issue here. It's the justification behind it, right?

Which is why the OJ comparison was silly to begin with.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Which is why the OJ comparison was silly to begin with.

I was solely addressing the eventual guilt or innocence of the person, not the crime for which he or she is being tried.

 

[casmith07]

OJ may have been guilty, but juries make decisions based on evidence. Right?

And if the evidence wasn't sufficient to convict him, it doesn't matter whether or not he really did it. I felt the same way about Casey Anthony.

Exactly.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

The prosecutors must prove Zimmerman's shooting of Martin was rooted in hatred or ill will and counter his claims that he shot Martin to protect himself while patrolling his gated community in the Orlando suburb of Sanford. Zimmerman's lawyers would only have to prove by a preponderance of evidence — a relatively low legal standard — that he acted in self-defense at a pretrial hearing to prevent the case from going to trial.
[/INDENT]

So I guess the prosecutor must prove that Zimmerman didn't use self defense. I was told last night by a future lawyer they didn't have to.

 

[casmith07]

So I guess the prosecutor must prove that Zimmerman didn't use self defense. I was told last night by a future lawyer they didn't have to.

Read a little lower - the defense must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that it was self-defense.

Also, thanks for the thinly-veiled swipe.

 

[casmith07]

I get what you're saying, and in an ideal world yes, but realistically, OJ was found innocent because the lead detective was a racist and then got caught lying about it, which fit right in to the whole planted evidence angle the defense was aiming for.

Not entirely...OJ was found innocent because the moronic prosecutor asked him to try on the glove, which of course OJ struggled to attempt to put on.

It's widely regarded as the biggest prosecutorial error in the history of the criminal justice system.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Read a little lower - the defense must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that it was self-defense.

Also, thanks for the thinly-veiled swipe.

The prosecutors must prove Zimmerman's shooting of Martin was rooted in hatred or ill will and counter his claims that he shot Martin to protect himself.

As for the defense, as it says, it is a very low standard they have to meet. nothing even close to what the prosecutor has to do.

And are you not a future lawyer? It wasn't a swipe.

 

[casmith07]

The prosecutors must prove Zimmerman's shooting of Martin was rooted in hatred or ill will and counter his claims that he shot Martin to protect himself.

As for the defense, as it says, it is a very low standard they have to meet. nothing even close to what the prosecutor has to do.

And are you not a future lawyer? It wasn't a swipe.

Give me a break. You know exactly what you were doing.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Give me a break. You know exactly what you were doing.

What are you talking about. I said a future lawyer. How is that a swipe? Are you not going to be a lawyer? If I misunderstood then I apologize. I thought you said that. And it was you that told me the defense didn't have to prove how he was killed, just that he was killed.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

The prosecutors must prove Zimmerman's shooting of Martin was rooted in hatred or ill will and counter his claims that he shot Martin to protect himself.

As for the defense, as it says, it is a very low standard they have to meet. nothing even close to what the prosecutor has to do.

And are you not a future lawyer? It wasn't a swipe.

Unless there is evidence that we don't know about and people are speculating that based on what we do know that they will have a hard time proving that Zimmerman did 2nd degree murder.

Things like whether or not they can prove that it was Zimmerman or not Zimmerman screaming on the tape and that it was Trayvon screaming for help. And if they can tell at what distance and angle that Trayvon was shot could be the difference if Zimmerman is convicted.

We don't know about the Autopsy results on Trayvon's body. Also does Zimmerman have medical records to prove that his injuries are as serious as he said because they were not serious enough to go to the hospital.

I don't think that it should be allowed to shot someone in a fist fight and say that you feared for your life if the injuries do not show that.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Unless there is evidence that we don't know about and people are speculating that based on what we do know that they will have a hard time proving that Zimmerman did 2nd degree murder.

Things like whether or not they can prove that it was Zimmerman or not Zimmerman screaming on the tape and that it was Trayvon screaming for help. And if they can tell at what distance and angle that Trayvon was shot could be the difference if Zimmerman is convicted.

We don't know about the Autopsy results on Trayvon's body. Also does Zimmerman have medical records to prove that his injuries are as serious as he said because they were not serious enough to go to the hospital.

I don't think that it should be allowed to shot someone in a fist fight and say that you feared for your life if the injuries do not show that.

Yeah, we still need to see the evidence, which none of us has seen. Though he did have cuts on the back of his head.

As for the screams, if there are other injuries on Martin's body that is a big problem for Zimmerman. Further, what kind of screams were they? If it was Zimmerman, he would be yelling because he was getting beat on. If it was Martin, it could have been that he was getting beat on. But I don't know what the screams could have been if there are no other marks on Martin. It will be interesting to see if the screams were before the shot or after. Did Martin die instantly or did he survive for a time. Did Martin have bruises on his knuckles from hitting Zimmerman. And did Zimmerman have the same kind of bruises.

All of this stuff needs to be fleshed out and I am sure it will be.