Give him credit: Roy is a beast in the run game..

[zrinkill]

this is where you fall short, noone is glancing over Roy's short-comings, in fact we mention all the time that he can be a liability in coverage sometimes, but so does every safety

the problem is your guy's unwillingess to accept that fact, and you way overblow his deficiencies in coverage

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Perhaps you missed my smart-a@# wise-crack about Vick.

Focus on the here and now, but I know you won't because it's convenient for your side to ignore it.

he probably ignored it because it's about as shallow as your knowledge of football, VIck wasn't a QB, he was a glorified RB, are you saying Roy Williams is not a SS? if so, I severely question your intelligence, much further than I already do now

 

[jobberone]

Hamlin has a very good chance of making it this season, whether he deserves it or not.




Then it's utterly amazing that we're No. 1 in the NFL in interceptions, No. 6 in yards allowed per pass, No. 3 in completion percentage allowed and tied for No. 4 in passer rating allowed. Especially when our two best cornerbacks have been hampered by injuries all season (either one or both at a time).

Neither Hamlin or Roy are playing at a Pro Bowl level. The only one back there who is playing at that level is TNew and hopefully he'll make it. Roy will likely make it and Hamlin has a shot. I'm not going there with Hamlin because of Taylor. TNew deserves a pro bowl if he continues to play like he has the last couple of games. I think they have asked more of him and he is responding. In fact they all are playing better.

It is amazing we are 11-1 with the play of our DBs. If you take away the play of the front seven and their pressure I suspect our record would be substantially worse.

Stats are nice. They are absolutely necessary. But I've seen our D rated very high in the past and we couldn't win with it.

The black and white thinking on this board amazes me. If you are not satisfied with our DB play then you are just not a good fan. You cannot appreciate the fact we are 11-1. You hate Roy. You don't appreciate the nuances of the game. You don't understand how it works. You don't know what safeties do in this league. How can we be so statistically good and be 11-1 if we are so bad. On and on. You and others can use all the cognitive distortions you like but this club will not beat the better teams in the league if they continue to self destruct, tackle poorly, and pass defend so softly.

We can play better. We've all seen it. I want a SB. We all do. We need to play better if we want to win the SB this year. We need to play four quarters. JMO.

 

[NickZepp]

Roy has played at a really good level since about week 3. He's not perfect but no one is. He's even been pretty solid in coverage most of the time. He's changed some game this year because of his run defense.

 

[PBJTime]

yet he's 2nd on the team in tackles, behind the ILB

I'd say that's being great in run support

But, according to some, he only gets all those tackles by touching a player that is already down. He never makes his own...

 

[Vintage]

yay. Another Roy thread.

3rd best Opponents Completion Rate: 58.4%
6th best YPA: 6.4
5th Best Opposing QB Rating: 72.6
1st in INTs


That's our secondary. Roy is a part of it. People get upset because Roy does give up the occasional big play; but that is to be expected when teams are chucking the ball 40 times a game. Its going to happen. The key is not allowing them to do it with efficiency. And our pass defense has been keeping opposing offenses from doing it with efficiency. And Roy is a part of the secondary that is doing that pretty damn well.

 

[khiladi]

LOL... and the 2nd play he takes a bad angle and horse collars a guy...

Like I said... SAME old Roy.

Uh no... and the majority of those plays, there were no bad angles...

 

[TEK2000]

Neither Hamlin or Roy are playing at a Pro Bowl level. The only one back there who is playing at that level is TNew and hopefully he'll make it. Roy will likely make it and Hamlin has a shot. I'm not going there with Hamlin because of Taylor. TNew deserves a pro bowl if he continues to play like he has the last couple of games. I think they have asked more of him and he is responding. In fact they all are playing better.

It is amazing we are 11-1 with the play of our DBs. If you take away the play of the front seven and their pressure I suspect our record would be substantially worse.

Stats are nice. They are absolutely necessary. But I've seen our D rated very high in the past and we couldn't win with it.

The black and white thinking on this board amazes me. If you are not satisfied with our DB play then you are just not a good fan. You cannot appreciate the fact we are 11-1. You hate Roy. You don't appreciate the nuances of the game. You don't understand how it works. You don't know what safeties do in this league. How can we be so statistically good and be 11-1 if we are so bad. On and on. You and others can use all the cognitive distortions you like but this club will not beat the better teams in the league if they continue to self destruct, tackle poorly, and pass defend so softly.

We can play better. We've all seen it. I want a SB. We all do. We need to play better if we want to win the SB this year. We need to play four quarters. JMO.

Does Roy SUCK? Answer that question then we'll continue the discussion. I'm just trying to get a feel for where you stand exactly.

All of the stuff you pointed about what people are saying is entirely subject to statements of the people criticizing Roy.

So.. do you think Roy sucks and should be cut?

 

[smarta5150]

You haters need to stop pulling a Bayless.

 

[scottsp]

There is a body of work to consider. I don't believe anyone who "hates on" Roy does so because of an agenda or whatever. Like most of us, those folks want to see this club and this defense do well. I can say the same for those who love them some Roy Williams.

Like most, I have my Roy episodes. I try to call 'em like I see 'em. I believe the guy played very well vs the Packers. He has been solid for the most part, IMO.

What I do like about the deep-third of this defense, is the limitation of big plays, particularly in the passing game. Receivers will run free a lot due to restrictions on DBs (non-contact rules), but this unit has done a really good job in keeping people in front.

That's job one for the safeties. Roy should get credit for some of that, too.

 

[AdamJT13]

Neither Hamlin or Roy are playing at a Pro Bowl level.

Are you sure about that?

"Pro Bowl level" for a safety means you are one of the three safeties playing the best in your conference. So which three NFC safeties are playing better than Roy and/or Hamlin? We've already seen most of the other candidates, and I wouldn't take any of them over either one of our safeties.

You and others can use all the cognitive distortions you like but this club will not beat the better teams in the league if they continue to self destruct, tackle poorly, and pass defend so softly.

And you and others possess an utter lack of perspective.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Neither Hamlin or Roy are playing at a Pro Bowl level.

ridiculous, Hamlin has been providing great help over the top, w/ the exception of the Pat game, and maybe another game, all of Favre's deep throws had Hamlin over-the-top coverage on it

and has 5 INTs because he was where he was supposed to be in coverage

 

[jobberone]

Does Roy SUCK? Answer that question then we'll continue the discussion. I'm just trying to get a feel for where you stand exactly.

All of the stuff you pointed about what people are saying is entirely subject to statements of the people criticizing Roy.

So.. do you think Roy sucks and should be cut?

kk

If you actually took time to read what people had to say then you'd know the answer to that question.

Go back and read or search my posts to see what I think.

But to be civil I said he is an above average safety. Marginally above average. What torques me about Roy is I've and you have seen much better play from him. Unless he's hurt I totally do not understand why he doesn't actually play like a Pro Bowl safety. He's getting paid like one. He used to play better. What's the problem?

 

[smarta5150]

kk

If you actually took time to read what people had to say then you'd know the answer to that question.

Go back and read or search my posts to see what I think.

But to be civil I said he is an above average safety. Marginally above average. What torques me about Roy is I've and you have seen much better play from him. Unless he's hurt I totally do not understand why he doesn't actually play like a Pro Bowl safety. He's getting paid like one. He used to play better. What's the problem?

He's not Superman.

Thats what they expect him to be anyway

 

[jobberone]

Are you sure about that?

"Pro Bowl level" for a safety means you are one of the three safeties playing the best in your conference. So which three NFC safeties are playing better than Roy and/or Hamlin? We've already seen most of the other candidates, and I wouldn't take any of them over either one of our safeties.




And you and others possess an utter lack of perspective.

I don't think I lack perspective but you are welcome to your opinion. I honestly don't understand how you and others don't see the DBs playing at less than a SB, Pro Bowl or even strong playoff contender level.

There doesn't have to be one safety in the entire league playing at a Pro Bowl level. Where's the rule for that. I assume you mean they pick Pro Bowl safeties three at a time. That's true. Some years it's hard to leave one or two off. Other times it's hard to find two.

But there doesn't have to be any playing at that level.

My problem is simple. Roy doesn't play at a high level anymore. I can't prove that anymore than you can prove he does. Stats aside there is always what you see with your eyes. That's what I'm doing. You appear to go by stats. I go by both.

I have a lot of respect for you. You provide a valuable service for this forum that I'd hate to do without.

We just disagree on this one and I propose we leave it at that. We can agree to disagree. How about it?

 

[jobberone]

He's not Superman.

Thats what they expect him to be anyway

Who is they? I see a lot of hyperbole on both sides of this equation.

I expect more. Not just from Roy either. I don't know what others expect but I think most people who are dissatisfied with Roy's pass coverage are disappointed. I don't think he 'sucks'.

On the other hand this club has somehow managed to get to 11-1 and most people see Dallas as the cream of the NFC. They also see them a considerable notch below the Pats. That's my assessment.

We can also decide to agree to disagree.

 

[jobberone]

ridiculous, Hamlin has been providing great help over the top, w/ the exception of the Pat game, and maybe another game, all of Favre's deep throws had Hamlin over-the-top coverage on it

and has 5 INTs because he was where he was supposed to be in coverage

Do you actually think it's ridiculous to think that only Newman is playing at a high enough level to be considered playing at a Pro Bowl level. It is unreasonable to think someone could not come to that conclusion IMO.

Again more hyperbole. I state Roy is above average, Newman is playing at a Pro Bowl level and no one else is and you would think I said this team really sux and I love the Commanders. Yada yada.

Again the responses, not all of them mind you, seem ridiculous to me. JMO.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Do you actually think it's ridiculous to think that only Newman is playing at a high enough level to be considered playing at a Pro Bowl level. It is unreasonable to think someone could not come to that conclusion IMO.

as you can see, I replied to your line of thinking, so try thinking about a counter-point, instead of re-stating what you've already said

 

[jobberone]

as you can see, I replied to your line of thinking, so try thinking about a counter-point, instead of re-stating what you've already said

I responded to your use of the word ridiculous. If you think Hamlin is playing at a Pro Bowl level then I won't argue with you. He's in the hunt but their is not a lot of competition this year. I do agree with Adam on that. Some of that is the new NFL and all the rules that favor the offense. I'm not disagreeing with the rules BTW. Just stating there is more to the problem with pass defenses than a lack of talent.

Again my opinion is there is one Pro Bowl DB on this team. The fact Dallas is 11-1 and may very well be 18-1 or 17-2 at the end of the season will send quite a few players to the Pro Bowl. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamlin makes it. I expect Roy will.

Oh and Hamilin INTs does not make him a Pro Bowl player IMO. With Henry out so much I consider Hamlin the second best DB with Reeves not really that far behind. Hamlin is definitely solid.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I responded to your use of the word ridiculous. If you think Hamlin is playing at a Pro Bowl level then I won't argue with you. He's in the hunt but their is not a lot of competition this year. I do agree with Adam on that. Some of that is the new NFL and all the rules that favor the offense. I'm not disagreeing with the rules BTW. Just stating there is more to the problem with pass defenses than a lack of talent.

Again my opinion is there is one Pro Bowl DB on this team. The fact Dallas is 11-1 and may very well be 18-1 or 17-2 at the end of the season will send quite a few players to the Pro Bowl. I wouldn't be surprised if Hamlin makes it. I expect Roy will.

Oh and Hamilin INTs does not make him a Pro Bowl player IMO. With Henry out so much I consider Hamlin the second best DB with Reeves not really that far behind. Hamlin is definitely solid.

the Pro Bowl is all about being one of the best at your respective position, and Hamlin is