Give Parcells credit for this...

[GimmeTheBall!]

:enough:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Under Campo we had years where almost half our cap was tied up in dead money...so not only did he pay for the over-spending Jerry did over the begging of Stephen not to, he paid for the Galloway trade as well.

But even with all that, Scrappy's teams were in most games...19 of his 33 losses were by 7 or less. His teams showed more heart than Tuna's did.

Parcells inherited a team with nowhere to go but up, and frankly I'd bet there are 10-20 guys Jerry could have hired that could have added talent and went 34-32.

but there weren't 10-20 guys, just one

Bill Parcells

give credit where it is due and call it a day

or join in the VA/Iceberg wars

 

[iceberg]

:enough:

you've got open minds.

you've got angendas.

when they mix, you get some *** up arguments.

i'll just take my open mind away from some people's agendas.

 

[Zaxor]

Yup Larry Lacewell knows football accd to so many and I believe them, but his era as chief of college scouting is a wreck.

The Garretts look great right now and I think they'll continue to, but remember Jim Garrett, the daddy, touted Drew Hensen as, let me paraphrase: "more potential than Aikman" ... (look it up sorry I'm too lazy today ...) .. whoops there goes a (third?) pick ...

Our scouting in that era was the dregs. A few months after the first Super Bowl win of the JJ era, Jerry fired Bob Ackles, John Wooten and most importantly Dick Mansperger. A giant mistake, and the ultimate act of hubris by Jerry, and Jimmy too. If you don't believe me, read what Joel Buchsbaum said, link below. Oh apparently there was a guy named Smith too that was fired, I didn't remember him:

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Columns/2002/buchsbaum083002.htm

All that said, I hope Lacewell's office is as far away from Ireland's as possible.

GREAT info...

It has always been the scouts and the scout directors that are responsible for bringing in the talent anybody that thinks it is a HC doesn't realize how much work is necessary in scouting...but also it is the HC who often falls in love with a guy and goes against what the scouts say that make for trouble for example guys like (rogers, peterson, Green) Bill loved these guys the scouts didn't...

Bill needs to be given credit for having the Cowboys reemphasizing the scouts roll. but not oodles and oodles of credit because Jerry had already started to do that

 

[Aikbach]

If Dallas goes all the way this year many will give great credit to Parcells, as they should in some respects, perhaps it would not be unlike what Dungy did in Tampa before his departure and how a fresh scheme and approach coupled with the already assembled talent put it over the top.

 

[superpunk]

And I guess you missed the 34-32 record, zero division titles, 4 straight late season nose-dives and no play off wins, too, huh?

You asked what we had that all those teams didn't. I gave an answer. Your response has nothing to do with that, or whether or not there are a plethora of idiots out there ready to do the job that Bill Parcells did.

If you can't follow your own shallow, poorly thought-out argument, how can you expect anyone else to?

 

[Dave_in-NC]

i would buy this more *if*

the people who said this would give jones credit for "learning" and hiring a "real coach" when much of this crowd said he never would.

then - the fact he did hire a real coach and take a back seat - he proved he can and will learn. w/parcells gone - it's as if he never hired pacells and we've got the "old" jones w/o even giving him a chance to see if he *really* learned.
some people put jones in a no-win situation and regardless of what he does, the good things are an accident or attributed to someone else and the bad things ge way magnified and all heaped upon jones.

Do we know if Jones learned any thing yet? He hired Phillips who is suggested to be a push over. (we don't know if that's the case yet) I mean I just read where Wade cut Thorn. Who ever that was. He has said he wants to get more involved again. That will be ok if in fact he has learned.
If he hasn't, people have the right to be fearful. The "good things" have huge gaps between them.

I'll just take the wait and see approach.......again.

 

[jackrussell]

What is your point?

The Dallas Cowboys are well under the salary cap.. they were NOT when Campo was there... further, the salary cap has consistently risen during Parcell's tenure, while still being under the cap...

I don't see what the relevance of your questions are... Sean Payton and Tubby SMith are kept examples of coaches who took their teams way farther than Parcells during his reign, in shorter time, with much less to work with...

to claim Parcells did something special and restored a team with a culture of losing is exxagerated hyperbole.. Campo had one dollar, Parcells had 100 dollars...

I'll tell you the relevence when you answer the question. Again, simple as can be....does today's salary cap situation effect how many of your own players you can sign and for how much?

Does it? Don't be scared now.

 

[jackrussell]

Hoe about I make it easy on you?

Are you serious? Your considering the NFL pre-1993 as akin to the changes the league implemented after 1993? You got to be kidding me...

And seriously, tell that to those that don't have money, it is not how much money you have... they both correlate, i.e. how you spend and how much you have to spend... good players go where they are paid... the team that has more money can get MORE quality players.. really, are you just this bent on arguing?

And your right, you can't compare the two...

You're the one that said "there was NO free agency back then." Was it an error, a lie, or you just don't know what you're talking about?

 

[blindzebra]

You asked what we had that all those teams didn't. I gave an answer. Your response has nothing to do with that, or whether or not there are a plethora of idiots out there ready to do the job that Bill Parcells did.

If you can't follow your own shallow, poorly thought-out argument, how can you expect anyone else to?

Laughable, but typical from the man-boob sniffing crowd.

Facts are facts, and must be avoided, and more importantly belittled at all costs.

 

[blindzebra]

Do we know if Jones learned any thing yet? He hired Phillips who is suggested to be a push over. (we don't know if that's the case yet) I mean I just read where Wade cut Thorn. Who ever that was. He has said he wants to get more involved again. That will be ok if in fact he has learned.
If he hasn't, people have the right to be fearful. The "good things" have huge gaps between them.

I'll just take the wait and see approach.......again.

Push over like when he lost his job in Buffalo because he refused to throw his assistant under the bus? That kind of boot-licking lackey for the ownership?

 

[superpunk]

Laughable, but typical from the man-boob sniffing crowd.

Facts are facts, and must be avoided, and more importantly belittled at all costs.

You are really clueless.

You claim 10-20 people could have been found to do the job Parcells did. However, you ignored teams like Arizona, Cleveland and Oakland who have sucked for quite some time now - despite having cap space and high draft picks. Apparently you know something they don't about hiring for NFL head coaching gigs.

Then you decide that you're going to play the "Hey - we don't have anything those teams don't.

And what do we have that the teams you brought up don't?

Which was wrong, and just a plain stupid attempt - even for you. Because, we have had a winning team in 3 out of the past 4 years, going to the playoffs twice and sending 7 players to the pro-bowl. Heck, even the 34-32 record we have over that span is something those teams I brought up don't have. They don't even have a winning record in that span.

You're not bringing any facts. Your notion that anyone could have done the job Parcells did is disproved by the very fact that there are NFL teams miring in the basements of NFL divisions year in and year out - with cap space, high picks, and no end to the losing in sight. It's a stupid idea that is perpetuated by people who aren't too friendly with "facts".

So maybe it's a good time for you to just bow out and drop it - unless you can explain why you know what Cleveland, Detroit, Arizona and Oakland just can't seem to figure out. Maybe you can explain to Jerry Jones why he didn't need to pay 5 mil a year to get his organization turned around. Heck, maybe he could hire you since it's so darn easy to turn organizations around so long as you have cap room and high draft picks.

Or maybe you should just abandon this asinine train of thought.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

BP was so hard headed to change for the good.

 

[iceberg]

Push over like when he lost his job in Buffalo because he refused to throw his assistant under the bus? That kind of boot-licking lackey for the ownership?

like i've said - people tend to see what they need to see to keep their views going. if it doesn't fit, you make it fit.

phillips is a "nice guy" so therfor a pushoever regardless of his past history of leaving jobs BECAUSE he's no pushover of a coach.

wait and see is fine, but the things that "don't fit" that are made to isn't really waiting and seeing, it is?

sorry ba - replying to your post in reference to NC - but it's all good. we can all hope jones learned along the way.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Push over like when he lost his job in Buffalo because he refused to throw his assistant under the bus? That kind of boot-licking lackey for the ownership?

A little more to Phillips Buffalo story.

The most successful coaching stop for Phillips was at Buffalo. He always kept the team competitive and in the playoff hunt. A loss to the Titans in the 1999 playoffs haunted Phillips for the rest of his time at Buffalo. In this same season he caused a controversy when he inserted Rob Johnson as starting quarterback at the last game of the season, after Doug Flutie was the starter the whole year and led the team to the playoffs.

Buffalo fans and the owners are much like ours. They don't forgive bone headed moves to well. He was fired for more reasons than you would like to think. I'm from rochester NY, my football watching family are Bills fans. They were glad to see him go as well as most Western NYers.

Then you call Parcells fans "man boob" fans. Have you looked at Phillips? His bra size wouldnt be much less than the older Parcells.

 

[khiladi]

You're the one that said "there was NO free agency back then." Was it an error, a lie, or you just don't know what you're talking about?

I think anybody can understand the difference between free agency before 1993 and free agency after 1993. But the fact that Reggie White was considered the first real pick of the era of free agency should give anyone a clue that we are talking about two different periods, i.e. opposite poles...

or was Jay Novacek considered the first real pick of the era of free agency?

 

[khiladi]

I'll tell you the relevence when you answer the question. Again, simple as can be....does today's salary cap situation effect how many of your own players you can sign and for how much?

Does it? Don't be scared now.

Ooooh... I'm shaking in my boots...

Actually, why not tell me the relevance, because we are comparing a coach that HAD money to operate under a salary cap with a coach that didn't... your the one that argued that the AMOUNT of money did not matter....

 

[khiladi]

You claim 10-20 people could have been found to do the job Parcells did. However, you ignored teams like Arizona, Cleveland and Oakland who have sucked for quite some time now - despite having cap space and high draft picks. Apparently you know something they don't about hiring for NFL head coaching gigs.

Maybe it's because Dallas has Jerry Jones... You do realize that the ownership of two of the 3 teams, and I'm not familiar with Cleveland, suck major-ly... maybe the fault is NOT the coaching, but the sucky owners...

look at the facilities in Arizona...

 

[superpunk]

Maybe it's because Dallas has Jerry Jones... You do realize that the ownership of two of the 3 teams, and I'm not familiar with Cleveland, suck major-ly... maybe the fault is NOT the coaching, but the sucky owners...

look at the facilities in Arizona...

I'm trying to find a point in the "We've got Jerry Jones" line of thinking, but I simply can't. Jerry on his own, with his puppet regimes was probably one of the worst "football owners" in the NFL from 1997-2001. The only possible advantage he might have on guys like Davis and the Bidwell's and the Browns and Lions is his business sense.

Which is nice - but as we've seen in the past, that doesn't translate into wins.

So what's the point? Are you attempting to shift his moronic argument from "10-20 guys could have done the job Parcells did with the cap space and draft picks" to "10-20 guys could have done the job Parcells did with the cap space and draft picks so long as Jerry Jones is the owner"?

Are there any more proviso's we'd like to make to degrade the job that was done in the complete remodeling of the Dallas Cowboys over the past 4 years? Maybe we'd like to add "only in leap years, with Jeff Ireland and a 40 year old man in the Rowdy suit." Those reasons why remaking the Dallas Cowboys is just so damn easy would be just as legitimate as "It was so easy with cap space and draft picks and Jerry Jones that 10-20 guys could have done it."

Brilliant reasoning. Too bad Jerry Jones didn't get that memo before the 2002 season. Too bad the other teams that make up the NFL's league of perpetual crappy teams aren't privy to you guys' wealth of capable Franchise Rebuilders. Otherwise Houston might have a shot sometime this decade.

 

[JonJon]

Though we didn't win a playoff game, I do give credit to Parcells for turning this franchise around. Talent wise, we were horrific pre-Parcells era. Now, we are leaps and bounds better post- Parcells era than what we were before.

Here is a comparison of the starters....

OFFENSE
WR Joey Galloway < Terrell Owens
Raghib Ismail < Terry Glenn
LT Flozell Adams = Flozell Adams
LG Larry Allen > Kyle Kosier
C Mark Stepnoski < Andre Gurode (Stepnoski was at the end of his career by then)
RG Kelvin Garmon < Leonard Davis
RT Solomon Page < Marc Colombo
TE Jackie Harris < Jason Witten
Mike Lucky < Anthony Fasano
QB Quincy Carter < Tony Romo
RB Emmitt Smith < Julius Jones (Smith was at the end of his career by then)
Troy Hambrick < Marion Barber III

DEFENSE
LE Greg Ellis > Marcus Spears
NT Brandon Noble < Jason Ferguson
RT Mike Myers < Jeremiah Ratliff
RE Peppi Zellner < Chris Canty
WLB Dexter Coakley = Greg Ellis (LOLB)
MLB Dat Nguyen > Bradie James ( RILB)
SLB Markus Steele < Akin Ayodele( LILB)
Darren Hambrick < DeMarcus Ware ( ROLB)
RCB Mario Edwards < Anthony Henry
LCB Duane Hawthorne < Terence Newman
Izell Reese < Aaron Glenn
SS Darren Woodson > Roy Williams
FS George Teague ? Ken Hamlin