Give Parcells credit for this...

[tomson75]

It's amazing that any team sucks for a prolonged period of time in the NFL. I mean, what with the high picks, the cap space that results from not having any decent players to resign, and the ease with which you can reinstall a winning attitude to an NFL team, there ought to be 20-some guys out there ready to fix all those losing squads.

I'm sure Cleveland can't wait to talk to you about a replacement for Savage and Crennel. While you're at it, maybe you could send one of your extraordinary gentlemen to Arizona and Detroit with a holdover in Oakland.

Clearly NFL owners don't know all these football geniuses you are personally acquainted with - who can come in and give them three years of winning records and two playoff trips after years of unmitigated futility. These guys grow on trees.

Well done.

 

[Zaxor]

Jackrussell;1585497]And I equated it to being the same as Jimmy Johnson...why would anyone heap praise on him? He fits the exact same criteria as you said below:

Ah got it... And the answer is I don't know...but perhaps because he did it mainly through the draft (also Jimmy had a bit of an advantage having just come out of the college ranks and having seen first hand some of the top talent available) also Jimmy was unable to duplicate the magic in Miami leaving me to believe that perhaps the drafting genius label is over rated wouldn't you agree

Sorry...but you're sounding too much like Jerry Jones after Jimmy's 2nd Super Bowl win...the 'hundred coaches thing'.

2 things

the first is JJ was proven right
the second is JJ said it about a SB team, I said it about the opposite...

in other words JJ said anyone can take the best and be the best...
I said anyone can take the worse with no resources and make it better with a ton of resources. I don't believe that sounds even remotely similar.

 

[Zaxor]

I believe, that Parcells gave Jones a hell of a education on how to mange a team. For that I'm exstremely grateful.

ahh now this is where I think Parcells made the positive impact... Time will tell.. but I think he showed Jerry how to be a GM.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Jimmy did a great job in Miami didn't he Jack... It might have been helpful if he had a Herschel Walker to have traded...but what happened was that he was pretty average and had to rely on his scouts to make good recommendations... so play along Jack... lets say the teams Midwest scout says that player A is a good player now Bill & Jimmy get to say yeah or nay based on what?.. are you going to assume they have the time to break down film on each and every player of the draft or that maybe that they would take a look at maybe 15-20 players with intense film study which would be hundreds of hours or is it possible they take a liking to 1 or 2 players and do a cursory view of other candidates which in all likely hood is the most likely scenario.

Under these circumstances it is quite possible that fans do know a bit more about a player than the head coach does... Also most fans aren't ignorant little piss ants they can usually tell a good player from a bad player now granted some of us have been watching football longer than others but with access to more information than ever before you might be surprised at how accurate the consensus is on separating the wheat from the chafe.

So getting back to what was in my original post.. anybody with competence would have been able to upgrade the talent level on this team given the resources that Bill had available to them...
You may not like it but it is the truth as I perceive it

Well, the truth is our GM couldn't do it. So I guess not "anybody"

 

[Dave_in-NC]

It's amazing that any team sucks for a prolonged period of time in the NFL. I mean, what with the high picks, the cap space that results from not having any decent players to resign, and the ease with which you can reinstall a winning attitude to an NFL team, there ought to be 20-some guys out there ready to fix all those losing squads.

I'm sure Cleveland can't wait to talk to you about a replacement for Savage and Crennel. While you're at it, maybe you could send one of your extraordinary gentlemen to Arizona and Detroit with a holdover in Oakland.

Clearly NFL owners don't know all these football geniuses you are personally acquainted with - who can come in and give them three years of winning records and two playoff trips after years of unmitigated futility. These guys grow on trees.

Post of the week IMOP. Granted it's been a slow week.

 

[jackrussell]

Ah got it... And the answer is I don't know...but perhaps because he did it mainly through the draft (also Jimmy had a bit of an advantage having just come out of the college ranks and having seen first hand some of the top talent available) also Jimmy was unable to duplicate the magic in Miami leaving me to believe that perhaps the drafting genius label is over rated wouldn't you agree




2 things

the first is JJ was proven right
the second is JJ said it about a SB team, I said it about the opposite...

in other words JJ said anyone can take the best and be the best...
I said anyone can take the worse with no resources and make it better with a ton of resources. I don't believe that sounds even remotely similar.

I guess I'm just not really sure as to exactly who, if anybody, you would give anybody credit for, in anything.

Lennon/McCartney wrote Let It Be...could 20 other people have done? Maybe.

Neill Armstrong was the first man to walk on the moon...could a hundred other people have done it instead? Likely.

Emmitt ran for 18000 yards...I guess we have to say anybody who could have run for Dallas would have done the same thing...right?

But it's not the who couldas that matter, it's who did. They did. And if you can't give the people who actually did it the credit...then nobody derserves any for anything.

You keep speaking of the 'ton' of resources supposedly afforded to Bill. Are they anymore resources than say the Browns have had? Or the Cardinals? Raiders? Lions? If a bunch of guys could have done what Bill did, why aren't they doing it for someone else? I mean, they should be lining up.

I get you don't like the guy....I get he didn't get the job done and he's gone.

What I don't get is why, when I look at the roster of people we have now, people just can't admit the obvious...they're here because Bill brought them here...end of story. No more 'if my aunt had....she'd be my uncle' stories thank you.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

During the NFL Network's broadcast of the Commanders-Titans game I saw a commercial where Javon Walker was dancing - really breaking it down - during Broncos training camp.

I couldn't help but wonder - would this be happening if Parcells was still around?

Sounds like all they needed was a beetle in the picture to call off their season.

But whatever anyone thinks about Parcells' legacy here, get ready for ESPN to give him full credit if we do well. Ed "The Weasel" Werder was already setting it up on 103.3 last week. They probably would have done that anyway, but it'll be even worse with Parcells working for them.

 

[Kilyin]

Clearly NFL owners don't know all these football geniuses you are personally acquainted with - who can come in and give them three years of winning records and two playoff trips after years of unmitigated futility. These guys grow on trees.

You mean two playoff losses (one of them with a Campo team) and those glorious 10-6 and 9-7 seasons? That's pretty much umitigated futility with a few more wins. Parcells was a .500 record coach in Dallas. As a wise man once said, what you did in the past doesn't excite me.

Any coach is expected to improve a team through the draft and free agency. In doing so, they're also expected to put a winning team on the field that doesn't collapse near the end of the season every year.

 

[khiladi]

Yes...when Jimmy took over for Landry, he had no where to go but up. Anyone of us competent message board posters, given the resources Jimmy had in high and multiple picks and no salary cap could have done the same thing.

Actually, free-agency was initiated after Jimmy started winning Super Bowls, meaning that one couldn't make dramatic impacts to the team by getting a quality player like Adalius Thomas added to the roster, unless one was lucky... What is definitely admirable about Jimmy is that Jimmy's progression in Dallas was consistent improvement each year... He was making imporvements where he need to make improvements given the circumstances he had to work with. It is a lot easier to build teams to win now than during his tenure...

With Bill, he has no problems with salary crap, great draft positions, and roster space.. It wasn't like this when Campo was here, where he had the dead-weight of what remained of the Dallas dynsasty... Hell, look at the 49ers and Packers... give credit to Jerry for at least performing much better than those two over the years.. it is only now, people are talking about 49ers somewhat...

 

[jackrussell]

But whatever anyone thinks about Parcells' legacy here, get ready for ESPN to give him full credit if we do well. Ed "The Weasel" Werder was already setting it up on 103.3 last week. They probably would have done that anyway, but it'll be even worse with Parcells working for them.

You mean two playoff losses (one of them with a Campo team) and those glorious 10-6 and 9-7 seasons? That's pretty much umitigated futility with a few more wins. Parcells was a .500 record coach in Dallas. As a wise man once said, what you did in the past doesn't excite me.

I don't see why they wouldn't...I mean, look at what we have here in a period of a couple of minutes.

You have one moaning the possibility of Bill getting credit if Wade goes to the playoffs, the other pointing out Bill went to the playoffs with Campo's team.

What's it gonna be?

 

[jackrussell]

Actually, free-agency was initiated after Jimmy started winning Super Bowls... It is a lot easier to build teams to win now than during his tenure...

There was still no salary cap...and that's what I said. I said nothing about free agency. Actually.

 

[khiladi]

There was still no salary cap...and that's what I said. I said nothing about free agency. Actually.

Doesn't matter if you said free-agency or not... That is one of te, if NOT, relevant difference between the two...

Campo, whil he had free-agency, had no room to operate.. Bill, on the other hand did... Jimmy, didn't have free-agency to work with... Bill had much BETTER room to make his mark on the team than the other two...

If one wants to compare Bill to some other coaches, he need sot look at people in the same4 situation... look at perennial losers like the Bears and Saints... look at what their coaches did in the same situation Bill had...

 

[jackrussell]

Doesn't matter if you said free-agency or not... That is one of te, if NOT, relevant difference between the two...

Campo, whil he had free-agency, had no room to operate.. Bill, on the other hand did... Jimmy, didn't have free-agency to work with... Bill had much BETTER room to make his mark on the team than the other two...

If one wants to compare Bill to some other coaches, he need sot look at people in the same4 situation... look at perennial losers like the Bears and Saints... look at what their coaches did in the same situation Bill had...

Well it does matter, because I didn't say it.

Going with your logic, we can't compare Cowboy Jimmy vs Dolphin Jimmy because he worked under 2 different structures...yet we have, in this very thread.

So be sure to go and remind them you can't do it.

Something tells me Tom Landry never would have lasted past 1964 given your attitudes here.

 

[iceberg]

Well it does matter, because I didn't say it.

Going with your logic, we can't compare Cowboy Jimmy vs Dolphin Jimmy because he worked under 2 different structures...yet we have, in this very thread.

So be sure to go and remind them you can't do it.

Something tells me Tom Landry never would have lasted past 1964 given your attitudes here.

seems to be a lot of that going around. : ) glad it's not just me who sees it.

 

[superpunk]

Sounds like all they needed was a beetle in the picture to call off their season.

But whatever anyone thinks about Parcells' legacy here, get ready for ESPN to give him full credit if we do well. Ed "The Weasel" Werder was already setting it up on 103.3 last week. They probably would have done that anyway, but it'll be even worse with Parcells working for them.

**** Parcells.

I'm so sick of reading about him and the damn beetle and people laughing in practice and TO being called by his name and every other doomsday chicken little thread that people are putting up and their knee-jerk game 1 of the preseason evaluations and comparing it to Parcells.

I loved him as our coach. But for christ's sake people...the new season has started and he's not our freaking coach anymore. Who gives a crap what he will and will not get credit for. I credit the players, who have more to do with our success on the field than any coach possibly could. Let's hope Wade can get these guys to execute like Parcells couldn't, in the hopes that playoff success will result in us not having to hear about ******** Parcells and how much everyone hates and /or loves him.

It's ridiculous already. The season is new. Talk about that for christ's sake.

/rant.

 

[jackrussell]

**** Parcells.

I'm so sick of reading about him and the damn beetle and people laughing in practice and TO being called by his name and every other doomsday chicken little thread that people are putting up and their knee-jerk game 1 of the preseason evaluations and comparing it to Parcells.

I loved him as our coach. But for christ's sake people...the new season has started and he's not our freaking coach anymore. Who gives a crap what he will and will not get credit for. I credit the players, who have more to do with our success on the field than any coach possibly could. Let's hope Wade can get these guys to execute like Parcells couldn't, in the hopes that playoff success will result in us not having to hear about ******** Parcells and how much everyone hates and /or loves him.

It's ridiculous already. The season is new. Talk about that for christ's sake.

/rant.

You're right.

How do you think Parcells will do for ESPN this year?

 

[5Stars]

You're right.

How do you think Parcells will do for ESPN this year?

:bang2:

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[Zaxor]

I guess I'm just not really sure as to exactly who, if anybody, you would give anybody credit for, in anything.

Lennon/McCartney wrote Let It Be...could 20 other people have done? Maybe.

Neill Armstrong was the first man to walk on the moon...could a hundred other people have done it instead? Likely.

Emmitt ran for 18000 yards...I guess we have to say anybody who could have run for Dallas would have done the same thing...right?

But it's not the who couldas that matter, it's who did. They did. And if you can't give the people who actually did it the credit...then nobody derserves any for anything.

You keep speaking of the 'ton' of resources supposedly afforded to Bill. Are they anymore resources than say the Browns have had? Or the Cardinals? Raiders? Lions? If a bunch of guys could have done what Bill did, why aren't they doing it for someone else? I mean, they should be lining up.

I get you don't like the guy....I get he didn't get the job done and he's gone.

What I don't get is why, when I look at the roster of people we have now, people just can't admit the obvious...they're here because Bill brought them here...end of story. No more 'if my aunt had....she'd be my uncle' stories thank you.

Jack do you credit the sun for shining...do you give credit to water for being wet...How can you give credit to someone that with a bit of competence/resource's and the power to do it could have also accomplished the same thing...

I give Bill credit for shaking up the scouting staff and putting Ireland in place... I give Bill credit for teaching Jerry to be a GM... I also give him 1/2 credit for Romo (those are deserved this crap that he was the one doing all the scouting and picking and is the sole reason the Cowboys now have some talent is hogwash)

and as far the other teams such as the Browns, Cards, etc. are you saying they are not amassing talent? I realize they couldn't win a playoff game like Bill but that just proves my point even more

 

[jackrussell]

OK Zax, I'll give, you're right, anyone can do it.

Bad Bill....very baaad.

 

[khiladi]

Well it does matter, because I didn't say it.

Going with your logic, we can't compare Cowboy Jimmy vs Dolphin Jimmy because he worked under 2 different structures...yet we have, in this very thread.

So be sure to go and remind them you can't do it.

Something tells me Tom Landry never would have lasted past 1964 given your attitudes here.

Salary Cap was an EXTENSION of free-agency. There is a salary cap, because of free-agency. Even if JJ had no salary cap, it is not relevant, because there was NO free agency. With free agency, a coach has a lot more room to acquire players he wanted.

And when did I compare JJ in Dallas with JJ in Miami? I stated, if your gonna compare Parcells with Campo, than you need to do it on equivalent terms. If a person has 1 dollar to work with, and another guy has 100 dollars to work with, you sure as hell can't tell me that the guy with one dollar has more of a chance to buy better goods than a guy with 100 dollars.