Give Parcells credit for this...

Zaxor

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just out of curiosity does anybody know when the last time the teams being mentioned as poor had a franchise type QB? and as a second part of that question when they had a franchise QB were they still a poor team?
 

khiladi

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I'm trying to find a point in the "We've got Jerry Jones" line of thinking, but I simply can't. Jerry on his own, with his puppet regimes was probably one of the worst "football owners" in the NFL from 1997-2001. The only possible advantage he might have on guys like Davis and the Bidwell's and the Browns and Lions is his business sense.

During this tenure, he also wasn't in a position of high cap space. He also was in a position of the end of an aging dynasty, of which none of these other teams were. If your going to compare teams, than compare his teams with the likes of the 49ers and the Packers, who were in similar situations. Jerry kept his team more competitive than these teams during the drop-off...

So what's the point? Are you attempting to shift his moronic argument from "10-20 guys could have done the job Parcells did with the cap space and draft picks" to "10-20 guys could have done the job Parcells did with the cap space and draft picks so long as Jerry Jones is the owner"?

Actually yeah, because it would be more accurate... I mean, if your going to legitimately argue that it is all Jerry's fault prior to 2002, and bring up Arizona, and Oakland to demonstarte your point, than your ignoring key factors, i.e. aging dynasties and no money to operate, i.e. over the cap, in respect to Jerry before 2002.

Are there any more proviso's we'd like to make to degrade the job that was done in the complete remodeling of the Dallas Cowboys over the past 4 years? Maybe we'd like to add "only in leap years, with Jeff Ireland and a 40 year old man in the Rowdy suit." Those reasons why remaking the Dallas Cowboys is just so damn easy would be just as legitimate as "It was so easy with cap space and draft picks and Jerry Jones that 10-20 guys could have done it."

What is so special that Parcells did, that other coaches like Tubby Smith didn't do? I guess this years draft class was all Parcell's too... Let's not forget the look on Bill Parcell's face before he was forced his hand into playing Romo...

Brilliant reasoning. Too bad Jerry Jones didn't get that memo before the 2002 season. Too bad the other teams that make up the NFL's league of crappy teams aren't privy to you guys' wealth of capable Franchise Rebuilders. Otherwise Houston might have a shot sometime this decade.

you mean he had salary cap room and plenty of space to operate prior to 2002?
 

superpunk

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khiladi;1586534 said:
During this tenure, he also wasn't in a position of high cap space. He also was in a position of the end of an aging dynasty, of which none of these other teams were. If your going to compare teams, than compare his teams with the likes of the 49ers and the Packers, who were in similar situations.

This was Jerry's own fault. The Raiders are actually recovering from a similar situation - but they apparently haven't hit that magic spot where cap space and draft picks and Jerry Jones come together to make rebuilding easy as pizza.

you mean he had salary cap room and plenty of space to operate prior to 2002?
Of course not. Don't be a fool.

But he did manage to bungle what picks he had and squander money on players who weren't worth it - something we're not doing anymore. Must've been all that cap space he got ahold of that changed his ways.:rolleyes:

Or maybe it was Bill Parcells.

Still can't figure out what you geniuses know that Arizona, Cleveland, Oakland and Houston can't figure out with all their cap space and draft picks. Seriously - get ahold of them and let them know about your "It's so easy a caveman could do it" theory.

You could be rich.
 

Vintage

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superpunk;1586538 said:
This was Jerry's own fault. The Raiders are actually recovering from a similar situation - but they apparently haven't hit that magic spot where cap space and draft picks and Jerry Jones come together to make rebuilding easy as pizza.

Of course not. Don't be a fool.

But he did manage to bungle what picks he had and squander money on players who weren't worth it - something we're not doing anymore. Must've been all that cap space he got ahold of that changed his ways.:rolleyes:

Or maybe it was Bill Parcells.

Still can't figure out what you geniuses know that Arizona, Cleveland, Oakland and Houston can't figure out with all their cap space and draft picks. Seriously - get ahold of them and let them know about your "It's so easy a caveman could do it" theory.

You could be rich.

The hell you talking about?

It takes me two years, max, to put out a good playoff team when I rebuild in Madden.
 

khiladi

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This was Jerry's own fault. The Raiders are actually recovering from a similar situation - but they apparently haven't hit that magic spot where cap space and draft picks and Jerry Jones come together to make rebuilding easy as pizza.

Ironically, the recovery happened right BEFORE Bill Parcell's came... Bill Parcells walked into Dallas for a reason...

And the similar situation is the 49ers and the Packers... In fact, it's more accurate to compare Dallas with the 49ers, who had similar cap situations during their dro-off.. And Dallas was performing much better than both these teams even prior to 2002... You keep ignoring the mentioning of these teams..

Of course not. Don't be a fool.

But he did manage to bungle what picks he had and squander money on players who weren't worth it - something we're not doing anymore. Must've been all that cap space he got ahold of that changed his ways.:rolleyes:

You mean cap space didn't effect how he picked players, i.e. plugging in the gaps? You mean the impact of the aging dynasty didn't effect the team? You do know about probability right? You have more money, more choices, meaning more chances to get quality players.

Or maybe it was Bill Parcells.

Or maybe, Jerry finally got rid of the aging dynasty, and a whole new approach was already destined to happen... Bill Parcells didn't take the Cowboys job without a reason... Unless of course he felt he could win in Arizona, Cleveland, and Oakland...

And Jerry seemed to do just find in this years draft without Bill.. But I guess Bill, with his conservative nature, taught Jerry how to wheel and deal as well...

Still can't figure out what you geniuses know that Arizona, Cleveland, Oakland and Houston can't figure out with all their cap space and draft picks. Seriously - get ahold of them and let them know about your "It's so easy a caveman could do it" theory.

You could be rich.

What about the other teams? You keep ignoring them... Chicago, New Orleans, San Dieg completely revamped... Hell, Parcells was in the weak NFC... You also have the Carolina Panthers who went to the Superbowl, and Jacksonvilles has been a contender... What really did Parcells do so special in 4 years that other teams did in a lot less?
 

superpunk

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Vintage;1586553 said:
The hell you talking about?

It takes me two years, max, to put out a good playoff team when I rebuild in Madden.

In Madden news (cuz I'm tired of talking about stupid "It's so easy..." ****), in the Rough Ryders Fantasy League - the Bills just pulled off a trade to bring PacMan Jones to Buffalo after his suspension.

:D

Whitner and Parrish for Lamont Thompson, PacMan and a second rounder. And, if I can't get PacMan before season 2, I get the Titans first rounder.

Oh yeah, baby. I also got Roberto Garza and a third rounder for Terrence McGee. Sweet....
 

Vintage

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superpunk;1586566 said:
In Madden news (cuz I'm tired of talking about stupid "It's so easy..." ****), in the Rough Ryders Fantasy League - the Bills just pulled off a trade to bring PacMan Jones to Buffalo after his suspension.

:D

Whitner and Parrish for Lamont Thompson, PacMan and a second rounder. And, if I can't get PacMan before season 2, I get the Titans first rounder.

Oh yeah, baby. I also got Roberto Garza and a third rounder for Terrence McGee. Sweet....

What's PacMan rated?

Could be a good deal for you since Parrish isn't anything great, Whitner while a young S, is not important as having a good young CB.

I like it. Bold. Daring.

McGee for Garza and a 3rd is solid too. Building a nice OL there. And a 3rd rounder for an additional day one pick (potentially another one if PacMan doesn't get back for season 2).

(Or is PacMan contingent upon returning in real life for you to actually acquire him?)
 

GimmeTheBall!

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iceberg;1586271 said:
you've got open minds.

you've got angendas.

when they mix, you get some *** up arguments.

i'll just take my open mind away from some people's agendas.


:enough:
No backtalk!
 

superpunk

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Vintage;1586574 said:
What's PacMan rated?

Noone knows. He's not in the game. He'll be in an update, I guess. Chris Henry is though...so it's weird.

Could be a good deal for you since Parrish isn't anything great, Whitner while a young S, is not important as having a good young CB.

Yeah - all Parrish is is crazy speed. Which if they fixed the defensive AI, shouldn't matter as much as it did in 07 when i could have just run Evans and Parrish downfield and outrun everyone with Losman's 94 throw power.

McGee for Garza and a 3rd is solid too. Building a nice OL there. And a 3rd rounder for an additional day one pick (potentially another one if PacMan doesn't get back for season 2).

(Or is PacMan contingent upon returning in real life for you to actually acquire him?)

I just have to be able to get PacMan before season 2 of the league starts, which will probably be in 2 months or so, playing 2 games a week. If I can't, I get his first rounder and his second rounder - we have a real 7 round draft, with players from NCAA and such. Like Brady Quinn was in the league around december of last year.
 

Stautner

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miamicowboy21;1584685 said:
Thank you. The cowboys are measured on super bowls,not on roster improvements or how hard the team worked and all that other nonsense. Bottom line was 0-2 in the playoffs, zero division titles. His act wore thin. I'm happy he's gone, the players seem much more relaxed and ready to turn it loose.


The poster was commnting on one aspect - he didn't say this defined Parcell's tenure in Dallas. Pay attention to the topic.

iceberg;1584717 said:
how quickly YOU forget 3 superbowls in 4 years.

So a coach sucks unless he reaches that level ....... ? You must have hated Landry.

TunaFan33;1584752 said:
Keep in mind that Parcells did a POOR job in building the OL. Who could forget Jacob "I want to sit on my injured fanny" Rogers and Stephen Pederman?

As bad as we were under Campo, at least the OL was far better than Parcells'.

Again, the poster was talking about one aspect of Parcells tenure - not the defining point.



It appears that posters become brain dead when Parcells is discussed.

We all know Parcells didn't eltimately get the job done, and we all know it was time to bring in someone new.

But he did a few things right, and it's ridiculous for people to jump down someone's throat for suggesting as much.
 

aikemirv

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TunaFan33;1584752 said:
Keep in mind that Parcells did a POOR job in building the OL. Who could forget Jacob "I want to sit on my injured fanny" Rogers and Stephen Pederman?

As bad as we were under Campo, at least the OL was far better than Parcells'.


Our Oline was disgusting and putrid before BP got here. Now, he might have not done a great job but his was much better than what we had with Campo.

How soon we forget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
 

superpunk

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aikemirv;1586601 said:
How soon we forget!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

This is something that can't be said enough.

I think people truly forget how awful we were. We could win 5 games a year - I don't know how we ever managed to win 5. Every win was a miracle, not expected. I don't think there's a team you can point to now, that is as horrible or devoid of talent as the 2001 Dallas Cowboys were. Teams like Detroit and Oakland and Cleveland are terrible, but they at least have some really bright young stars in Roy Williams and Nnamdi Asomugha and Kamerion Wimbley and Arizona's offense.

We had Greg Ellis and Quincy Carter. :eek:
 

jackrussell

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khiladi;1586480 said:
Ooooh... I'm shaking in my boots...

Actually, why not tell me the relevance, because we are comparing a coach that HAD money to operate under a salary cap with a coach that didn't... your the one that argued that the AMOUNT of money did not matter....

The relevance is you saying that not having a cap in 1990 has NO relevance:
Even if JJ had no salary cap, it is not relevant, because there was NO free agency.

Now answer the question, I'll type it slower for you to understand and not to make a mistake in your answer, that is, if you ever have the guts to answer it.

In today's cap situation, does it, or does it not affect as to how many of your own players you can sign, and for how much?

Yes......or no?

You can answer....or run.
 

Vintage

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superpunk;1586609 said:
This is something that can't be said enough.

I think people truly forget how awful we were. We could win 5 games a year - I don't know how we ever managed to win 5. Every win was a miracle, not expected. I don't think there's a team you can point to now, that is as horrible or devoid of talent as the 2001 Dallas Cowboys were. Teams like Detroit and Oakland and Cleveland are terrible, but they at least have some really bright young stars in Roy Williams and Nnamdi Asomugha and Kamerion Wimbley and Arizona's offense.

We had Greg Ellis and Quincy Carter. :eek:

Speaking of Wimbley.....he is poised to have a huge season.
 

superpunk

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Vintage;1586613 said:
Speaking of Wimbley.....he is poised to have a huge season.
Yeah.

And the idiot Browns owner traded him into my division to the Patriots for Vrabel, Seau and Welker.

Moron. I hope it gets vetoed. :mad:
 

blindzebra

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superpunk;1586344 said:
You are really clueless.

You claim 10-20 people could have been found to do the job Parcells did. However, you ignored teams like Arizona, Cleveland and Oakland who have sucked for quite some time now - despite having cap space and high draft picks. Apparently you know something they don't about hiring for NFL head coaching gigs.

Then you decide that you're going to play the "Hey - we don't have anything those teams don't.


Which was wrong, and just a plain stupid attempt - even for you. Because, we have had a winning team in 3 out of the past 4 years, going to the playoffs twice and sending 7 players to the pro-bowl. Heck, even the 34-32 record we have over that span is something those teams I brought up don't have. They don't even have a winning record in that span.

You're not bringing any facts. Your notion that anyone could have done the job Parcells did is disproved by the very fact that there are NFL teams miring in the basements of NFL divisions year in and year out - with cap space, high picks, and no end to the losing in sight. It's a stupid idea that is perpetuated by people who aren't too friendly with "facts".

So maybe it's a good time for you to just bow out and drop it - unless you can explain why you know what Cleveland, Detroit, Arizona and Oakland just can't seem to figure out. Maybe you can explain to Jerry Jones why he didn't need to pay 5 mil a year to get his organization turned around. Heck, maybe he could hire you since it's so darn easy to turn organizations around so long as you have cap room and high draft picks.

Or maybe you should just abandon this asinine train of thought.

Again typical...you keep repeating the same BS, hoping someone will buy it.

I said that after years of cap hell and no draft picks any coach could have improved our talent and coached that talent to a 500 record.

You throw out AZ, DET, CLE and OAK as examples to attempt to refute that, to which I brought up the answer...one you have avoided like the plague, because it destroys your attempt to spin the topic...Jerry's willingness to do whatever it takes to win. I even pointed how all 4 of the teams you brought up were among the last teams to sign their draft picks...something that is a yearly occurrence.

How about debating the topic, and actually READING what is written for a change?

And I'm clueless.
 

superpunk

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blindzebra;1586926 said:
Again typical...you keep repeating the same BS, hoping someone will buy it.

I said that after years of cap hell and no draft picks any coach could have improved our talent and coached that talent to a 500 record.

You throw out AZ, DET, CLE and OAK as examples to attempt to refute that, to which I brought up the answer...one you have avoided like the plague, because it destroys your attempt to spin the topic...Jerry's willingness to do whatever it takes to win. I even pointed how all 4 of the teams you brought up were among the last teams to sign their draft picks...something that is a yearly occurrence.

How about debating the topic, and actually READING what is written for a change?

And I'm clueless.

I'm assuming you have proof that the ownership for the Browns and those other teams won't do whatever it takes to win, and that Jerry will. I'm sure you're prepared to compare and contrast and provide specific examples to show why such a thesis is true. Because that would really destroy my argument and solidify yours.

You seem so confident that it's fact that I'm sure you can dial that right up.

Who am I kidding? I know you don't. You're just spouting more "facts". :lmao:
 

blindzebra

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superpunk;1586937 said:
I'm assuming you have proof that the ownership for the Browns and those other teams won't do whatever it takes to win, and that Jerry will. I'm sure you're prepared to compare and contrast and provide specific examples to show why such a thesis is true. Because that would really destroy my argument and solidify yours.

You seem so confident that it's fact that I'm sure you can dial that right up.

Who am I kidding? I know you don't. You're just spouting more "facts". :lmao:

Facts...okay smart arse, how about you prove 10-20 other guys couldn't improve the talent and coach them to 500.

Again spinning.

Fact or not...were we in cap hell before Parcells?

Fact or not...did we have years where a big chunk of our cap was tied up in dead money?

Fact or not...were we short on draft picks because of the Galloway trade?

Fact or not...were we still under those conditions when Parcells was hired?

Fact or not...did we have a 34-32 record under Parcells?

Fact or not...did we never win a division under him?

Fact or not...did we never win a playoff game under him?

Fact or not...did we never have a late season crash under him?

As for the teams you brought up, you want something to back up my claim?

Detroit hired Matt Millen...Detroit hasn't fired Matt Millen.

AZ has won one playoff game in the last 60 years under the same ownership, one that rarely re-signed any good players they had, rarely spent money in FA, always are among the last to sign their draft picks, always looking to trade down in the draft to get to a cheaper spot...you have heard of Bidwell, haven't you?:rolleyes:
 

Vintage

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So you make a claim like "10-20" people could have done what Parcells does, and when asked for evidence to support that, you ask superpunk to provide proof 10-20 people can't?

LOL.

I am God.

You can't question me.

Can you disprove I am God? No.

Therefore, I am.

God, I am.
 
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