Give Parcells credit for this...

[jackrussell]

The relevance is you saying that not having a cap in 1990 has NO relevance:

Are you this ********? Evading the question...again.

Really, are you this dumb or just trying to argue for the sake of arguing?=Still running...run Forrest run!

Run from what? Your stupid argument of trying to compare the situation of Parcells in Dallas with Jimmy Johnson when he was with the Cowboys, because of the issue of a salary cap? I wasn't. I was going to school you on your statement that 'having no cap is irrelevant because there was no free agency'. Sorry you were wrong on both.

Of course the salary cpa impacts who can sign a player for what?

That wasn't the question. Answer it as is. It's a simple yes, or no...which should be easy enough for any simple mind.(Hmm..I guess I see your problem)

Or are you going to tell me once again that Jay Novacek being acquired as a free agent in the 90s means that the new rules implemented in the league after 1993 are the same in that context.

YOU were the one that said free agency didn't exist. I proved you WRONG. You've asked many questions and I've answered many questions. Unless you plan on answering the single question I asked you, drop it. You're embarrassing yourself and your compadres won't let you in your next Dave Campo Is Hot Fan Club, and this week it's your turn to bring the whip cream.

 

[Stautner]

Leaded or un-leaded? You're not making sense, my friend!!

Oh, I'm talking about high octane stuff.

 

[5Stars]

Oh, I'm talking about high octane stuff.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Beer and boiled egg octane kind of stuff?

 

[Stautner]

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Beer and boiled egg octane kind of stuff?

Throw in a little bratwurst and beans.

 

[5Stars]

Myself I'm glad BP was here and I do think he left this team in much better shape than when he arrived I think this team is better off because of the time Parcells was here. I hope he enjoys his retirement and I now look forward to seeing if Phillips can help take this team to the next level.

This post fits me perfectly...why anyone cannot give the man a little more credit for what he DID DO is beyond me.

I view his tenure here as more of a GM type addition rather than just a bad coach who did not accomplish what we hoped for.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I have not even one shred of doubt that if Jerry were running things from 2003-2006 without Parcells that we would currently be working on year 3 of the Drew Henson as a starting NFL QB experiment, and Romo probably doesn't make it out of his second training camp in Dallas. Jerry can claim until he's blue in the face that he never forced things on his HC, but I still remember that Tony Banks/Quincy Carter debacle after the first preseason game of 2001 when Dave Campo was basically castrated in front of the national media by Jerry.

You guys act like there is some huge difference between Oakland, Cleveland and Arizona and Jerry ... yeah, there is, Phil Savage doesn't fall in love with Drew Henson and give up a 3rd round draft pick for him. Jerry's "proactive" nature is a hindrance as much as it is a help. See giving up two 1st round draft picks for Joey Galloway.

 

[superpunk]

Yeah funny how we went from an opinion forum to a court of law.

Be a really fun place if every post needed foolproof evidence before it could be posted, wouldn't it.

The best part is I DID support my position, with valid points of where we were before Parcells got here, the history of Jerry willing to do whatever it takes to win, Parcells lack of success on the field, and the history of other owners that don't do all they can to win and I did that with the teams thrown at me.

You didn't explain how you know that these other owners dont do all they can to win - that's just another thing you pulled out of your ***.

Seems that if this were a scored debate, there would clearly be a winner, and it isn't the guy doing the insulting and saying prove it over and over, without even attempting to disprove it.

It's disproved by all the points I brought up. It's not my fault you can't comprehend it - that's what blind hate will do I guess.

 

[superpunk]

I have not even one shred of doubt that if Jerry were running things from 2003-2006 without Parcells that we would currently be working on year 3 of the Drew Henson as a starting NFL QB experiment, and Romo probably doesn't make it out of his second training camp in Dallas. You guys act like there is some huge difference between Oakland, Cleveland and Arizona and Jerry ... yeah, there is, Phil Savage doesn't fall in love with Drew Henson and give up a 3rd round draft pick for him. Jerry's "proactive" nature is a hindrance as much as it is a help. See giving up two 1st round draft picks for Joey Galloway.

Those owners won't do whatever it takes to win. Otherwise, they could hire just about anyone to turn their team's around.

Never mind that Phil Savage has splurged on defensive talent and offensive line help for a few years now, with no regrets. He clearly (by scientific study) doesn't want to win as badly as Jerry Jones. So he can't manage the "10-20" theory. Anyone could have found Jason Witten in the third - the league's best #3 receiver in the 7th - traded for Terry Glenn for a 6th - signed ad developed Romo while being pressed to start the Chosen One Henson - rehabilitated Marc Colombo and saw the good in Kyle Kosier while having 3 out of 4 winning seasons.

Anyone could have done it. So long as they had Jerry Jones and the stars lined up with the moon.

 

[Stautner]

I have not even one shred of doubt that if Jerry were running things from 2003-2006 without Parcells that we would currently be working on year 3 of the Drew Henson as a starting NFL QB experiment, and Romo probably doesn't make it out of his second training camp in Dallas. Jerry can claim until he's blue in the face that he never forced things on his HC, but I still remember that Tony Banks/Quincy Carter debacle after the first preseason game of 2001 when Dave Campo was basically castrated in front of the national media by Jerry.

You guys act like there is some huge difference between Oakland, Cleveland and Arizona and Jerry ... yeah, there is, Phil Savage doesn't fall in love with Drew Henson and give up a 3rd round draft pick for him. Jerry's "proactive" nature is a hindrance as much as it is a help. See giving up two 1st round draft picks for Joey Galloway.

I certainly agree that we are in better shape having had Parcells as the coach than one of Jerry's patsy's, but I don't hold any ill will about the decision to use a 3rd round pick on Henson. I thought it was just one of those gambles that carries a little risk but is worth the potential reward. So it didn't pan out - the third rounder may not have either.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I certainly agree that we are in better shape having had Parcells as the coach than one of Jerry's patsy's, but I don't hold any ill will about the decision to use a 3rd round pick on Henson. I thought it was just one of those gambles that carries a little risk but is worth the potential reward. So it didn't pan out - the third rounder may not have either.

I would argue that Jerry was bidding against himself and didn't nearly have to give up a Day 1 pick to obtain Henson. But regardless, the trouble is its not enough for Jerry to just take a flyer on a guy and give it the "wait and see" approach. That's just too reasonable and measured.

He has to get his tail wagging after one decent preseason start, force him down the head coach's throat as the starter, and then revolve the entire franchise around the guy when he's not even close to being shoulder that load ... which is exactly what he did with QC. It was completely obvious that Henson was in way over his head that Thanksgiving Day game, but there was Jerry after the game spinning some half glass full nonsense that Henson was "really showing some good things out there.'

That's where Jerry's "eager to win" approach hurts more than it helps.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I would argue that Jerry was bidding against himself and didn't nearly have to give up a Day 1 pick to obtain Henson. But regardless, the trouble is its not enough for Jerry to just take a flyer on a guy and give it the "wait and see" approach. That's just too reasonable and measured.

He has to get his tail wagging after one decent preseason start, force him down the head coach's throat as the starter, and then revolve the entire franchise around the guy when he's not even close to being shoulder that load ... which is exactly what he did with QC. It was completely obvious that Henson was in way over his head that Thanksgiving Day game, but there was Jerry after the game spinning some half glass full nonsense that Henson was "really showing some good things out there.'

That's where Jerry's "eager to win" approach hurts more than it helps.

i was lwlays under the impression that there were other teams in the bidding. I also remember many outlets sayingit was a good trade for both teams.

most QBs fail but that doesnt meant hat taking a shot on one who has the chance to get it done was a bad idea.

Henson just couldnt get the mental part down. He had all the physical tools.

 

[5Stars]

That's where Jerry's "eager to win" approach hurts more than it helps.

And this is where I hope the debil, Parcells, have helped Jerra to understand that he needs to back off a little, get some patience, and let a real NFL football person do the job.

But, you could not ask for a better owner...fo shoo!

 

[blindzebra]

You didn't explain how you know that these other owners dont do all they can to win - that's just another thing you pulled out of your ***.



It's disproved by all the points I brought up. It's not my fault you can't comprehend it - that's what blind hate will do I guess.

Are you really this dense?

What level of "proof" would ever convince you? Obviously if I had a video tape of Bidwell saying all I care about is profits, you'd undoubtedly accuse it as being fake.

It's a freaking message board...OPINIONS are being given, you don't agree with mine fine, I don't give a crap, but there isn't a requirement that I need to support my opinion to meet your standards. Yet I'm the one being accused of acting God-like...like most of what you have written, it's laughable.

You threw out teams and challenged me for "proof" I supplied the following:

Detroit hired Matt Millen...Detroit hasn't fired Matt Millen.

AZ has won one playoff game in the last 60 years under the same ownership, one that rarely re-signed any good players they had, rarely spent money in FA, always are among the last to sign their draft picks, always looking to trade down in the draft to get to a cheaper spot...you have heard of Bidwell, haven't you?

I could easily find examples from the other teams as well, but again, what difference would it make? You'd only call me some form of stupid, ignore the post, and repeat again, how I'm doing nothing to support my point.

Proof is a two-way street. I've stated my position, supported it, yet you have yet to bring one bit of "proof" to counter my position.

Show one post in this thread that has said we aren't more talented now than before Parcells got here.

What many take exception with is glorifying Parcells role in that happening...he was hired as a coach, not a GM. Show that "proof" that all the personnel moves were Parcells doing and none of it was Jerry, Ireland and the rest of the scouting department.

We hired him to win on the field, he was a 500 coach.

We hired him to take us back to the SB, he never won a division or playoff game.

To take the talent increase without context of what the conditions were for Parcells versus Campo is ridiculous.

Yes we are a better team now than in 2002 and Parcells plays a part in that, but to imply that he's the main reason for that is silly.

 

[Stautner]

I would argue that Jerry was bidding against himself and didn't nearly have to give up a Day 1 pick to obtain Henson. But regardless, the trouble is its not enough for Jerry to just take a flyer on a guy and give it the "wait and see" approach. That's just too reasonable and measured.

He has to get his tail wagging after one decent preseason start, force him down the head coach's throat as the starter, and then revolve the entire franchise around the guy when he's not even close to being shoulder that load ... which is exactly what he did with QC. It was completely obvious that Henson was in way over his head that Thanksgiving Day game, but there was Jerry after the game spinning some half glass full nonsense that Henson was "really showing some good things out there.'

That's where Jerry's "eager to win" approach hurts more than it helps.

I can't argue with most of this.

I had no problem with us picking up Henson - and I don't hold a 3rd round pick in as much esteem as some.

We will never know if Jones was bidding against himself or not, but I thought the potential upside was worth taking a shot on the guy - and I don't really recall many fans getting upset at the time. It seemed to me that folks came out of the woodwork to complain about using the 3rd round picklater - after the result was apparent.

But still, Jones clearly did push Henson when he should have been viewed as more of a project, and that certainly wasn't smart. I'm not sure how much it hurt though - I'm not convinced we quit looking for another QB while Henson was here although I know some feel that way. Jones fondness for Henson may have made the search for another QB less urgent however.

 

[5Stars]

i was lwlays under the impression that there were other teams in the bidding. I also remember many outlets sayingit was a good trade for both teams.

most QBs fail but that doesnt meant hat taking a shot on one who has the chance to get it done was a bad idea.

Henson just couldnt get the mental part down. He had all the physical tools.

:drunk:

Damn, fuzzy...reading your's and darkioning's(what ever his man is) really helps on my beer intake!

 

[superpunk]

Show one post in this thread that has said we aren't more talented now than before Parcells got here.

What many take exception with is glorifying Parcells role in that happening...he was hired as a coach, not a GM. Show that "proof" that all the personnel moves were Parcells doing and none of it was Jerry, Ireland and the rest of the scouting department.

We hired him to win on the field, he was a 500 coach.

We hired him to take us back to the SB, he never won a division or playoff game.

To take the talent increase without context of what the conditions were for Parcells versus Campo is ridiculous.

Yes we are a better team now than in 2002 and Parcells plays a part in that, but to imply that he's the main reason for that is silly.

Hey, what an intriguing post. Your evidence for other owners lack of desire to win was shoddy, but your newly found voice of reason on what Parcells did for us is certainly better than the "anyone could have done what Parcells did" horsecrap you were spouting earlier in the thread. Heck, it's refreshing to see you post something about the man that isn't degrading or downplaying his accomplishment in rebuilding this ****hole of an NFL team. The talent is way better with Parcells help, and subsequently the record dramatically improved. After all, 34-32 isn't great, but 3 out of 4 winning seasons is certainly more impressive than 15-33.

Good talk.

 

[MONT17]

You guys act like there is some huge difference between Oakland, Cleveland and Arizona and Jerry ... yeah, there is, Phil Savage doesn't fall in love with Drew Henson and give up a 3rd round draft pick for him. Jerry's "proactive" nature is a hindrance as much as it is a help. See giving up two 1st round draft picks for Joey Galloway.[/QUOTE]


the Henson trade was BP... just like the Joey for Keyshawn trade! This team has more talent than they did under Campo but this team hasnt won a playoff game... and looking at the RBs they probally wont win a playoff game anytime soon!!!

 

[khiladi]

YOU were the one that said free agency didn't exist. I proved you WRONG. You've asked many questions and I've answered many questions. Unless you plan on answering the single question I asked you, drop it. You're embarrassing yourself and your compadres won't let you in your next Dave Campo Is Hot Fan Club, and this week it's your turn to bring the whip cream.

Wow... You can't be serious... Are you saying free agency was the same before 1993, OR TOTALLY DIFFERENT... calling something by the same name, doesn't make it the same thing... that is what your argument is akin to.. they are spelled the sdame, so they ahve to be the same thing... that is the ridiculous nature of your post....

Seriously, is this all you have.. what did Parcells do that is so special? He improved on Dave Campos' record.. well that shouldn't be saying much according to you, because Dave Campo was garbage...

 

[khiladi]

Hey, what an intriguing post. Your evidence for other owners lack of desire to win was shoddy, but your newly found voice of reason on what Parcells did for us is certainly better than the "anyone could have done what Parcells did" horsecrap you were spouting earlier in the thread. Heck, it's refreshing to see you post something about the man that isn't degrading or downplaying his accomplishment in rebuilding this ****hole of an NFL team. The talent is way better with Parcells help, and subsequently the record dramatically improved. After all, 34-32 isn't great, but 3 out of 4 winning seasons is certainly more impressive than 15-33.

Good talk.

Actually, I'll give the points to blindzebra... you still haven't answered how Campo's situation was totally different than Parcells, let alone his other points.... you just keep repeating Parcells had a better record...

 

[khiladi]

I have not even one shred of doubt that if Jerry were running things from 2003-2006 without Parcells that we would currently be working on year 3 of the Drew Henson as a starting NFL QB experiment, and Romo probably doesn't make it out of his second training camp in Dallas. Jerry can claim until he's blue in the face that he never forced things on his HC, but I still remember that Tony Banks/Quincy Carter debacle after the first preseason game of 2001 when Dave Campo was basically castrated in front of the national media by Jerry.

You guys act like there is some huge difference between Oakland, Cleveland and Arizona and Jerry ... yeah, there is, Phil Savage doesn't fall in love with Drew Henson and give up a 3rd round draft pick for him. Jerry's "proactive" nature is a hindrance as much as it is a help. See giving up two 1st round draft picks for Joey Galloway.

You think Parcells wanted to play Romo? That guy had the look of death during the season.. That changed when his hand was FORCED to play Romo... he preferred to stay with Bledose, and he preferred to stay with Vinny... he always wanted his QB.. Bledsoe was QB one year too many...

Romo was purely Sean Payton...

What evidence do you have that Jerry doesn't adapt to the situation... looks like he's done fine in this draft without Parcells, and choosing a coach suited to his investments.. but I guess Parcells gets the credit for teaching Jerry...