Going short on offense for defense's sake

[HungryLion]

No, would have had to start camp on PUP but they didn't put him on it.

They wanted him to be able to do walk-thru type practices.

So it was poor decision making by the coaches.

Color me surprised.

 

[xwalker]

So it was poor decision making by the coaches.

Color me surprised.

That still depends on when he will be healthy enough to play. If he will be healthy by about the game 3 time frame then allowing him to get walk-thru reps might have been worth it.

They can move him to IR with the ability to return. He must be on the initial 53 after cuts but can immediately be moved to IR at which point another player can be re-signed.

They could cut Morris, move McGovern to IR and re-sign Morris. Since Morris is a veteran he is not subject to waivers and has the choice of where to sign if cut.

 

[Stash]

I'm having a hard time cutting the defense to fewer than 27 players, unless we trade Crawford. We've got a lot of good defensive players with more potential IMO than the offensive players we would keep instead. So in addition to going with two quarterbacks, I would go with two tailbacks: either Pollard and Morris or Elliott (when he signs) and Pollard. I would then keep Chunn and/or Weber on the practice squad.

On offense, I would then keep 2 QBs, 1 FB, 2 RBs, 6 WRs, 3 TEs, 9 OL (only because I think we can't get McGovern to the PS, even not having played yet) for 23 offensive players.

I think that sounds like a good plan.

 

[Stash]

That still depends on when he will be healthy enough to play. If he will be healthy by about the game 3 time frame then allowing him to get walk-thru reps might have been worth it.

They can move him to IR with the ability to return. He must be on the initial 53 after cuts but can immediately be moved to IR at which point another player can be re-signed.

They could cut Morris, move McGovern to IR and re-sign Morris. Since Morris is a veteran he is not subject to waivers and has the choice of where to sign if cut.

More good insight X!

 

[gimmesix]

I just think Hyder who is versatile to play inside and outside makes Crawford expendable, the decision may come down to Jackson or Jelks getting the final roster spot and to me, Frazier is a one trick pony, he plays special teams, as a safety he can't cover and the further away from the defensive line, the worse he is..

I'm not opposed to Hyder being our new (and cheaper) Crawford. I absolutely think it's good to have a Crawford or two on your defense for depth as long as you don't have to cut others who are better or have potential to be better. I'd much rather keep Jackson and/or Jelks for their potential at this point than keep Crawford, especially at his cost. However, Crawford has built up trust and been reliable when other players weren't so this coaching staff might be hesitant to depart with him.

I haven't seen anything to tell me that Thompson is any better than Frazier, or for that matter that Iloka is. Frazier has been a core special-teammer for us, so I'd only want to replace him if player is a better safety than he is. I also think Frazier is better against the run than possibly any safety we have right now, so there's a niche role for him on this team. Maybe Thompson or Iloka will show something in this last preseason game that I've missed with them. I was definitely expecting more than we've seen from Iloka.

 

[gimmesix]

maybe a very slim chance of carrying 11 DL guys, (and does not include Gregory who seems very likely to sit out the entire year without any reinstatement progress going on) but I most definitely do not
see 12 DL guys on this unit. That seems too excessive and bottom line, some really very tough, difficult decisions and gambles have to be made.
and even for that 11 guy (Jackson ?) some maneuvering at other units for lesser numbers has to be made for a guy like Jackson to stay on. And I've heard Jerry make mentioned impressions of Jackson too often this preseason. It's Jared Jelks that i am most worried about losing.

DE
1 Dlaw
2 Quinn
3 Crawford
4 Taco
5 Armstrong
6 Hyder
7 Jackson ?

DT
8 Collins
9 Woods
10 Covington
11 Hill

my concern is cutting young talent (and invested draft picks) when we have three vets that may not even be here next year,.. two on one year deals.(hyder, Quinn). ..while another could be a cap casualty next year in 2020 (Crawford)

In this scenario, Jelks could hold Quinn's spot at least until he comes back from suspension. Usually, injuries help sort things out once the regular season gets going.

I'm probably concerned about losing Jelks over nothing, but it seems to me that some team without as much DL depth would be willing to snag him to develop based on what he's shown.

 

[gimmesix]

Cut Goodwin, move either Gifford or McGovern to IR then re-sign Goodwin.

They did carry 11 DL on the initial 53 one time since moving back to the 3-4.

I would be surprised if Jones stays on PUP although I wouldn't push him to return too soon. It would be better to not have him early in the year than later. They might just keep an extra CB if Jones does stay on PUP.

They have always kept 7 LBs. There was 1 season the 7th was R.McClain on suspension for 4 games making it only 6 counting against the 53 for 4 weeks.

If we put both Gifford and McGovern on IR, then I would think Goodwin would be one of the most obvious choices. He's primarily just a special-teammer. March as the sixth linebacker also would be a top choice for me.

If we ended up keeping just two running backs, I don't think we'd want to risk losing the second one, which would be Morris with Elliott absent.

I'd also be surprised if Jones stays on PUP. He's behind schedule, but I don't think he's that far behind.

We could keep March or Covington as a seventh linebacker (or sixth if Gifford goes on IR). I just don't think the value is there over keeping a better player at another position. I don't think we'll go with fewer than six, though, even if Gifford goes to IR.

Although I'd rather cut March than Chunn, that puts me at (assuming both Gifford and McGovern go to IR; Brown stays on PUP):

2 QBs: Prescott and Rush
2 TBs: Pollard and Morris (Chunn and Weber targeted for practice squad)
1 FB: Olawale
6 WRs: Cooper, Gallup, Cobb, Austin, Wilson and Smith (I badly want Jon'Vea Johnson to make it to the practice squad)
3 TEs: Witten, Jarwin and Schultz
8 OL: Smith, Williams, Frederick, Martin, Collins, Fleming, Su'a-Filo and Looney (McGovern can be called back from IR if needed later in the season)

6 DEs: Lawrence, (Quinn-suspended) Charlton, Hyder, Armstrong, Jackson and Jelks
5 DTs: Collins, Woods, Crawford, Covington and Hill
6 LBs: Smith, LVE, Lee, Thomas, Phillips and March (brought back after putting McGovern on IR)
6 CBs: Jones, Awuzie, Brown, Lewis, Olumba, Goodwin (brought back after putting Gifford on IR)
4 Ss: Woods, Heath, Wilson, Frazier

3 STs: Maher, Jones, Ladouceur

If we did this, we'd essentially be keeping seven linebackers with Gifford possibly coming off IR if needed after his high ankle sprain heals.

 

[HungryLion]

That still depends on when he will be healthy enough to play. If he will be healthy by about the game 3 time frame then allowing him to get walk-thru reps might have been worth it.

They can move him to IR with the ability to return. He must be on the initial 53 after cuts but can immediately be moved to IR at which point another player can be re-signed.

They could cut Morris, move McGovern to IR and re-sign Morris. Since Morris is a veteran he is not subject to waivers and has the choice of where to sign if cut.

My fault I didn’t realize McGovern wasn’t on PUP already.

IRing him sounds like the smart move unless they think he will be 100% ready only a few weeks into the season. Allows them to save the much needed roster spot for a guy like Su’a filo who is at least a competent back up.

As long as they don’t burn a roster spot by keeping an extra OL simply because McGovern is hurt for the short term.

 

[The Quest for Six]

I'm not opposed to Hyder being our new (and cheaper) Crawford. I absolutely think it's good to have a Crawford or two on your defense for depth as long as you don't have to cut others who are better or have potential to be better. I'd much rather keep Jackson and/or Jelks for their potential at this point than keep Crawford, especially at his cost. However, Crawford has built up trust and been reliable when other players weren't so this coaching staff might be hesitant to depart with him.

I haven't seen anything to tell me that Thompson is any better than Frazier, or for that matter that Iloka is. Frazier has been a core special-teammer for us, so I'd only want to replace him if player is a better safety than he is. I also think Frazier is better against the run than possibly any safety we have right now, so there's a niche role for him on this team. Maybe Thompson or Iloka will show something in this last preseason game that I've missed with them. I was definitely expecting more than we've seen from Iloka.

I don't think Iloka is making this team....and you may be right, They might keep Frazier over Thompson but Thomspon can play special teams and is better in coverage imo than Frazier but we will see soon enough...

 

[gimmesix]

I don't think Iloka is making this team....and you may be right, They might keep Frazier over Thompson but Thomspon can play special teams and is better in coverage imo than Frazier but we will see soon enough...

It could go either way. I just noticed Frazier out there a lot early against Houston, and he was making plays, especially coming forward to attack the run or pocket. Other than a play or two, I can't remember Thompson really standing out this preseason. Frazier's always going to be limited in coverage, making him one of those players you hope to upgrade. I just don't know if we have an upgrade to his spot on the roster as the fourth safety. Glad Wilson is standing out or I'd be more concerned about our safety depth as Iloka hasn't proven worthy of making the roster much less replacing Heath as the starter.

 

[gimmesix]

My fault I didn’t realize McGovern wasn’t on PUP already.

IRing him sounds like the smart move unless they think he will be 100% ready only a few weeks into the season. Allows them to save the much needed roster spot for a guy like Su’a filo who is at least a competent back up.

As long as they don’t burn a roster spot by keeping an extra OL simply because McGovern is hurt for the short term.

I believe we have the luxury of IR'ing him and allowing him to essentially take a redshirt year. Williams could have used that luxury last season to allow him to get up to NFL playing strength (not sure he's completely there yet, but it's better).

With the ability to allow up to two players to return after Week 8 from IR, it's really not that much different anymore than having a player on PUP (six weeks). The primary difference appears to be that if you start a player off on PUP, you don't have to have them on the initial 53, like you do with moving players to IR.

 

[JoeKing]

I'm glad it's not me trying to figure out these cuts because I don't think I could widdle this roster down to 53. There are some very solid players that we just can't make room for. I suppose it's a good problem to have.

 

[buybuydandavis]

McGovern ain’t playing this season l, his *** is about to go on PUP

Someone else said they already missed their chance to put McGovern on PUP. And Garrett had said they expected him back for training camp. Pec strain, not a tear. McGovern is the future. They won't want to burn a season of development putting him on IR.

 

[starfan1]

I would say without a doubt, that was his best showing ever. Nice to see him make plays. But again, it was the backup LT to a bad LT. Houston has had big issues with their LT position. Think Chaz Green.

Still, you have to show up and he did that. Actually, nothing would please me more then Taco becoming a legitimate weapon at DE.

hasnt he faced that type talent the last couple years? at least this preseason it looks like he may be getting it

 

[buybuydandavis]

I believe we have the luxury of IR'ing him and allowing him to essentially take a redshirt year. Williams could have used that luxury last season to allow him to get up to NFL playing strength (not sure he's completely there yet, but it's better).

With the ability to allow up to two players to return after Week 8 from IR, it's really not that much different anymore than having a player on PUP (six weeks). The primary difference appears to be that if you start a player off on PUP, you don't have to have them on the initial 53, like you do with moving players to IR.

I don't think they'll want to burn a season of development by putting him on IR. They had expected him back for camp, so there isn't a physical reason to keep him off the roster.

Williams had never played G before. He improved during the season. though spending the time weight training would have done him good, having him without football training for a season would set back his football skills from his college level instead of move them forward. A year of IR still counts as an accrued season.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Last year at this time we were saying Austin kinda counts as a RB.

Austin still does kinda count as a RB. He wouldn't be here if he weren't a dual run/receiving threat.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Who's the third? McGovern? We don't even know if he is ready to contribute on this level yet or ever will. If we knew that, then cutting Su'a-Filo would be a given. Right now, we're in a position where we need to either keep McGovern on the roster but kind of redshirt him until we know more or put him on IR.

They were thrilled to get McGovern in the 3rd. I think they'll be willing to bet on the college tape. They may get a few practices before the season starts. He was supposed to come back during camp.

 

[xwalker]

I don't think they'll want to burn a season of development by putting him on IR. They had expected him back for camp, so there isn't a physical reason to keep him off the roster.

Williams had never played G before. He improved during the season. though spending the time weight training would have done him good, having him without football training for a season would set back his football skills from his college level instead of move them forward. A year of IR still counts as an accrued season.

He can return from IR for game 9.

He can return to practice week 6.

 

[xwalker]

Austin still does kinda count as a RB. He wouldn't be here if he weren't a dual run/receiving threat.

Punt Return is Austin's top value to the team.

He does have good ability as a WR.

He would be a serviceable "starting" slot WR.

 

[xwalker]

If we put both Gifford and McGovern on IR, then I would think Goodwin would be one of the most obvious choices. He's primarily just a special-teammer. March as the sixth linebacker also would be a top choice for me.

If we ended up keeping just two running backs, I don't think we'd want to risk losing the second one, which would be Morris with Elliott absent.

I'd also be surprised if Jones stays on PUP. He's behind schedule, but I don't think he's that far behind.

We could keep March or Covington as a seventh linebacker (or sixth if Gifford goes on IR). I just don't think the value is there over keeping a better player at another position. I don't think we'll go with fewer than six, though, even if Gifford goes to IR.

Although I'd rather cut March than Chunn, that puts me at (assuming both Gifford and McGovern go to IR; Brown stays on PUP):

2 QBs: Prescott and Rush
2 TBs: Pollard and Morris (Chunn and Weber targeted for practice squad)
1 FB: Olawale
6 WRs: Cooper, Gallup, Cobb, Austin, Wilson and Smith (I badly want Jon'Vea Johnson to make it to the practice squad)
3 TEs: Witten, Jarwin and Schultz
8 OL: Smith, Williams, Frederick, Martin, Collins, Fleming, Su'a-Filo and Looney (McGovern can be called back from IR if needed later in the season)

6 DEs: Lawrence, (Quinn-suspended) Charlton, Hyder, Armstrong, Jackson and Jelks
5 DTs: Collins, Woods, Crawford, Covington and Hill
6 LBs: Smith, LVE, Lee, Thomas, Phillips and March (brought back after putting McGovern on IR)
6 CBs: Jones, Awuzie, Brown, Lewis, Olumba, Goodwin (brought back after putting Gifford on IR)
4 Ss: Woods, Heath, Wilson, Frazier

3 STs: Maher, Jones, Ladouceur

If we did this, we'd essentially be keeping seven linebackers with Gifford possibly coming off IR if needed after his high ankle sprain heals.

The cut/re-sign player needs to be a vested vet.

Morris would likely agree to just wait the 24 to 48 hours required and then re-sign. They could give him a small bonus for the trouble.

It looks like March does just barely qualify as a vested vet (2 years in IR, 10 games in 2017 and 16 in 2018).

I thought Goodwin was a vested vet but it appears that he is not. It's unlikely that he would be claimed considering he has been with nfl teams for 5 years and has less than 200 snaps on defense. He is literally a special teams player.

I think they consider Crawford a DE that has the ability to play DT.

I don't think Jelks makes the roster unless they cut/trade Crawford or somebody else.

Is Mike Jackson injured? He didn't play ps game 2 and I don't recall seeing him in ps game 3.

Olumba needs to be really good on teams because I think he has limited upside at CB. He looks like he can be an OK backup but I don't know if he projects to ever be a legit starter. Maybe in the KR scheme he can but he seems to have limited speed.

Westry probably has a higher upside than Olumba but is well behind him from a developed NFL skills perspective.