Has the Rooney rule helped or hurt minorities?

[Deep_Freeze]

I don't agree with this at all. Many believe that race itself is a social construct. At a minimum racism, is derived entirely from social concepts. There's no inherent genetic condition of racism.

I didn't say genetic, you did. I'm not talking about at birth, lol, I'm talking about how you are raised.

 

[theogt]

I didn't say genetic, you did. I'm not talking about at birth, lol, I'm talking about how you are raised.

I agree that it is a little different, but we are talking about human nature here. We are talking human preconceptions that are inherit in all of us. No matter how sophisticated they are, they still have preconceived thoughts about people, after all, they are human, we all have them.

To think that just because an owner has media scrutiny will keep him from his preconceived notion, is also a little naive. Its their money, and they will spend it on who they want, not what the media wants. Staying politically correct for the media is far different from private preconceived notions effect on what they are going to spend a million dollars on.

BTW, those notions would have more effect with the money coaches get paid. If there are problems with someone getting hired for a minimum wage job, more money just makes the situation worse, especially if it is your money (owner's point of view).

Not everyone is racist. Given that, either you disagree with the statement that everyone is racist, or the bolded portions suggested that you believe racism to be genetic.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Not everyone is racist. Given that, either you disagree with the statement that everyone is racist, or the bolded portions suggested that you believe racism to be genetic.

Are you serious?? Really?? I don't know how in the world you can come to your conclusion, the logic makes absolutely no sense at all.

Human nature and preconceptions ARE AFTER BIRTH. Your looking for words that just aren't there nor are the words you are trying to put in my mouth anywhere close to what I meant. If you think you had concepts while you were in the womb, well, that's dumb.

Anything genetic is there at BIRTH, and any kind of human perceptions, attitudes, and vices are formed well after your birth in accordance with the environment you were raised in.

Maybe your misunderstanding lies in the words "inherit in all of us", but I do mean inherit in an adult or at least someone of a certain maturity, not a freakin fetus, lol. But I think this should be rather obvious, but maybe not, lol.

 

[burmafrd]

I really doubt that it made any difference. No one will PUBLICLY criticise it since the racists will immediately attack you as being racist.
And someone trying to blame all the minority problems on the majority is just as much a racist as anyone wearing a sheet. To be brutally honest, right now black culture sets up the average black youth for failure. Education, dignity, politeness, hard work, etc is all denegrated by the rap culture that permeates young black youth today. And has for a while. As long as that persists, there will be massive failures. That is something the black leadership refuses to confront- and when someone like Bill Cosby does, he gets ripped by his own people.

 

[Dcz84]

the actual token interviews have not done much good probably, but the league sending a message that it wanted more black coaches was obviously heard loud and clear and had a huge effect. I highly doubt there would be as many black coaches today without that message.

Are there any black owners yet?

Well me for one think's it is just stupid.What needs to be done is more white players at certain position's. Really they should.
1. Name 1 white guys who was a starting RB in the league this year.
2. Name 1 white guy who was a starting WR this year in the league
3. Name 1 white guy who was a starting CB in the legue this year.
Does anyone care bout that??? Prolly not.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think it is needed...I think we are getting close to when it is not need though.

Just a few short years ago Jerry gave a "token" interview by having a talk with Denny Green...OVER THE PHONE.

There are many benefits to the rule IMO.

There have been times where an Owner may not be taking a specific candidate serious but just bring them in anyways...only to be blown away by that person and hire them even though they really did not think of hiring them prior to the interview. Think Andy Reid, that was what happened to him. He was more of an afterthought going in but he blew Lurie away.
Now I know that Andy Reid is not a minority but it just goes to show that if given a "chance" to interview it can turn out great for a coach and team.

So just by given the chance to some minorities to interview with an owner it opens up an opportunity for them to impress an owner and maybe get the job.

Remember guys this is not a situation where a percentage of the owners HAVE TO HIRE a minority coach. It just gives the minority coach a chance to interview.

What that coach does with that chance is up to him. If he impresses then maybe he gets a job, if he does not impress than he does not get a job. It is just a chance to try to impress and get a job, not a situation where the league is telling owners who they must hire. I think people need to remember that when comparing it to other race programs outside the NFL.

Also while giving a coach a respectable interview (not over the phone), even if you have another coach in mind it gives a minority coach a chance to polish and work on his interview skills. Even if the coach really does not have much of a shot because he still gets that chance to work on his interview process.

Maybe down the road it will pay off.

Ladies and gentlemen it is all about just getting a chance.

As I said I think it is a good program, it does not require a percentage of the league owners to hire minority coaches. It does not require an Owner to have a percentage of minority coaches or staff on their team either.

Hopefully we are closer to the point where we do not need it but I still say we are a little ways away.

 

[Future]

Well me for one think's it is just stupid.What needs to be done is more white players at certain position's. Really they should.
1. Name 1 white guys who was a starting RB in the league this year.
2. Name 1 white guy who was a starting WR this year in the league
3. Name 1 white guy who was a starting CB in the legue this year.
Does anyone care bout that??? Prolly not.

1. Mike Alstott?
2. Joe Jurevicious, Mike Furrey
3. ......jason sehorn?

 

[Yeagermeister]

the actual token interviews have not done much good probably, but the league sending a message that it wanted more black coaches was obviously heard loud and clear and had a huge effect. I highly doubt there would be as many black coaches today without that message.

Are there any black owners yet?

Arthur Blank owns the Falcons

 

[WoodysGirl]

Arthur Blank owns the Falcons

What some people don't understand is that there are few sole owners in the league. You have family-majority-owned entities like the Browns and maybe the 'boys. But there is no one guy that owns the whole enchilada. Most teams have ownership groups which can include anyone. The guy who's out front is the one who has a majority percentage.

One ownership group who has a "minority" owner is in Minnesota. He was originally the majority owner, but his money wasn't right, so they changed the org structure and now he's just a minority owner with Zygi Wolf (sp?) having the controlling interest.

 

[zrinkill]

I thought Jerry owned the whole enchilada?

 

[zeromaster]

I seriously doubt there's going to be true (perfect) equality in this country or any other, ever, because the definition of equality is largely subjective. Certainly you can create quotas as one way of trying to enforce and achieve the goal, but that itself can disenfranchise groups. That's not to say the problem should be ignored, but consider that if one "group" succeeds, another must lose something, and they probably won't be happy about it. As a society, we have to learn to compromise rather than scheme. Sports is but one mirror of the picture.

One key is for people to feel empowered, not entitled, which is a big difference. Another is that they be reasonably educated, with reasonable goals. Still another is that society drop some stupid assumptions for what they are rather than what they're comfortable with; then real progress can be achieved. Another thing is to increasingly focus on positives rather than emphasizing the victim aspect so much. Give people something to look up to, not down on.

If you're up to it, look at this DMN article. Not everyone may necessarily agree, but it's interesting that a man of color is not afraid to speak up on an aspect of the issue that rarely gets much press, since it conflicts with a more prevalent view. You may not be surprised at the role he feels the media plays in it; it's not unlike the things said here about BSPN, etc.

The problem with humans is (a) we don't learn much from history, thinking it doesn't apply this time, and (b) in somewhat contradictory fashion, we seem to want to keep score, especially where negatives are concerned. Look at media content for a good example of the latter. Consider that in some parts of the world, people have been at each others throats for centuries, and those areas remain unstable even today. Neither side wants to compromise, perhaps because to them it's like giving in; to me it's not unlike that old Star Trek episode.

Sorry for the rant, but aspects of it I think have relevance.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I thought Jerry owned the whole enchilada?

I said maybe, when I was referring to the family-owned entities. I'm honestly not sure as it pertains to the 'boys. While Jerry is the face of the 'boys, he may very well have some investors in the background. I don't know. Pure speculation on my part.

I just remember reading about the Bengals having minority owners although everyone assumed that the Brown family were the sole owners.

 

[Yeagermeister]

What some people don't understand is that there are few sole owners in the league. You have family-majority-owned entities like the Browns and maybe the 'boys. But there is no one guy that owns the whole enchilada. Most teams have ownership groups which can include anyone. The guy who's out front is the one who has a majority percentage.

One ownership group who has a "minority" owner is in Minnesota. He was originally the majority owner, but his money wasn't right, so they changed the org structure and now he's just a minority owner with Zygi Wolf (sp?) having the controlling interest.

True....good point as usual

 

[CactusCowboy]

Although I feel there should be many more minority coaches, I do not believe there should be a Rooney rule.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think the sprit of the rule is a good one but in the end I think owners and GM must hire people they are confident in regardless of race. What this rule does is expose more African American coaches to these owners and GM. I think you will find winning is #1 on every teams agenda and they will go after they people they feel can give them the best chance.

 

[LatinMind]

i think its hurt minorities. because if a coach is a good coach he'll get the job. but in most cases teams are forced to interview people that arent qualified. and wouldnt be considered in a normal circumstance. and it basically disrespects that coach.sure they're happy to be interviewed, but i have to think in the back of their mind they'd know they really arent a candidate but being exploited by the league by this rule

 

[WoodysGirl]

As for whether it helps or hurts minority coaching candidates, the only thing that matters are the candidates being interviewed and what they think. And most, if not all, seem to have a positive view of the rule whether they're hired or not.

And the thing is, the guys who seem like token interviews may very well get the job. Mike Tomlin, who is light on experience as well, was considered a long shot by the Rooneys when they were first considering him. They even admitted that he wasn't high on their list of candidates. He blew them away. Whether it works out for him and them, nobody knows.

 

[WV Cowboy]

When the "Rooney Rule" starts preventing qualified candidates from getting jobs because they aren't a minority then it will be time to get rid of it.

Plus they need to change the name of the rule to something that points to the spirit of the rule when viewed by the entire NFL, instead of singling out one guy.

JMO

 

[Cajuncowboy]

That is so not what he said. Here's the quote

""There are a number of other African-Americans out there that could have gotten this call and did not," Singletary said. "And for me, it's just one of those things that goes along with the territory. If every time somebody called, you sit back and go 'Well, I wonder if this is a Rooney Rule?' For me, every time I have the opportunity to have an interview, I feel very blessed and privileged to have it, and I make the most of the opportunity and I go from there." "

THat's exactlly what he said. See bolded text of your own reply.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Other Voices: Is Rooney Rule spirit being upheld?

By NANCY GAY
SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE

MIAMI -- If you've paid attention to the hopping head-coach screening process around the NFL lately, you've no doubt heard of the Rooney Rule.

It's in the news today. Mike Singletary, the San Francisco 49ers' assistant head coach for defense, interviewed for the Cowboys' head coaching vacancy. He's the eighth man to talk with team owner Jerry Jones since Bill Parcells retired.

With his Hall of Fame pedigree, earned through his 12 seasons (1981-92) as a linebacker with the Bears, along with assistant coaching stops in Baltimore and San Francisco, Singletary is clearly qualified to be an NFL head coach.

Truth be told, why did Jones interview Singletary on Tuesday?

Because he had to do so.

That's the Rooney Rule.

Initiated in 2002 by its namesake, Dan Rooney, Steelers owner and chairman of the NFL's diversity committee, the Rooney Rule requires clubs to interview at least one minority candidate for a head coaching vacancy.

Singletary is the second black coach to come through Jones' door during this search, but his presence in Dallas seems somewhat calculated.

Perhaps Jones heard the whispers around the NFL that he somehow was not honoring the spirit of the Rooney Rule with this search for Parcells' replacement.



Before Singletary, Jones interviewed a member of Parcells' staff, Todd Bowles, who is black. Some candidates get a more in-depth visit than others. Norv Turner, for example, received a lengthy interview with Jones, extending from Sunday into Monday.

Bowles' interview was much briefer. Maybe an hour. So brief, "The time he spent waiting outside the office for the interview was longer than the time he spent inside the office," one insider put it.

Unfortunately, Singletary's visit was expected to be brief.

Turner, the 49ers' offensive coordinator and a former Cowboys assistant with two stints as a head coach (Commanders and Raiders), probably will get the job by today. But the Cowboys can't say they didn't abide by NFL policy.

In the Bay Area, the Rooney Rule has become routine.

It arose in January 2003 when the 49ers were looking to replace Steve Mariucci. They brought in two longtime NFL defensive coaches, Patriots coordinator Romeo Crennel and Jets coordinator Ted Cottrell, for interviews.

Cottrell was paraded in front of the TV cameras at the 49ers' training complex.

Dennis Erickson ended up getting the job. And we saw how that went.

In January 2005, when the 49ers were looking to replace Erickson, they went back to Crennel, who was still the Patriots' defensive coordinator. Crennel answered the call again.

Mike Nolan got the job.

Again, the 49ers interviewed Crennel and Cottrell, in part, because they had to do so. Both are black.

That's the Rooney Rule.

Since it was mandated, there have been a number of doors opened to black coaches who previously might have been overlooked. In 2006, the NFL had seven black coaches.

Two of them, Art Shell of the Raiders and Dennis Green of the Cardinals, were fired at season's end. Two, Tony Dungy of the Colts and Lovie Smith of the Bears, are competing for the Super Bowl, a first for the NFL.

The past few weeks have seen the Rooney Rule put to an intriguing test.

Raiders owner Al Davis is renowned for being colorblind, hiring his former quarterback, Tom Flores, to be the franchise's head coach in 1979. Flores is of Mexican descent. Davis made Shell his coach twice; in 1989, Shell became the first black coach in the NFL's modern era.

Davis, NFL sources said, initially considered interviewing longtime Raiders defensive assistant and Hall of Famer Willie Brown to satisfy Rooney Rule requirements in his haste to snag the USC team of Steve Sarkisian and Lane Kiffin. Would Brown really have had a shot at the job?

Some believe the Rooney Rule is disingenuous. Some think it's patronizing. Why, for example, would Singletary allow himself to be a late candidate for a job that, by all appearances, he will not win?

"Because eventually, after enough interviews, one of those guys will get that head coaching job," said Ray Sherman, 55, the Titans' wide receivers coach who has 19 years of NFL offensive coaching experience with seven teams, including the 49ers.

Sherman, who is black, has not gotten the opportunity to interview for a head coaching position, which boggles one's mind.

Warren Moon's former tutor in Houston watched former Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin, who is 34 and black, get the Steelers job last week.

Sherman also watched with great interest as Kiffin, who is 31 and white and with no meaningful NFL coaching experience, was named the Raiders head coach.

"All I've ever asked for is the opportunity to interview," Sherman said. "Right now, the trend is for the younger guys, I guess. Maybe the Rooney Rule came too late for me."

There has been talk that the Rooney Rule has outlived its usefulness. Nonsense.

"I would like to think owners would hire the best coach," Smith said Monday. "But I am here because of the Rooney Rule. I definitely think we need to keep it in place."

Nancy Gay is a columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle. She can be reached at ngay@sfchronicle.com.

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