Has the Rooney rule helped or hurt minorities?

[Cajuncowboy]

Just a few short years ago Jerry gave a "token" interview by having a talk with Denny Green...OVER THE PHONE.

That was Denny Green's choice. He knew Parcells was the guy and he didn't want to have a "Token" interview. WHich is the very reason why I started this discussion.

I think it hurts more than it helps.

 

[DizzG]

Its already been confirmed BY THE NFL that Dallas satisfied the Rooney rule BEFORE Singletary was even invited to come in. I cant believe people seriously think that 8 hour interview was just a token interview. That is seriously just looking for something to piss about

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Other Voices: Is Rooney Rule spirit being upheld?

By NANCY GAY
SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE

MIAMI -- If you've paid attention to the hopping head-coach screening process around the NFL lately, you've no doubt heard of the Rooney Rule.

It's in the news today. Mike Singletary, the San Francisco 49ers' assistant head coach for defense, interviewed for the Cowboys' head coaching vacancy. He's the eighth man to talk with team owner Jerry Jones since Bill Parcells retired.

With his Hall of Fame pedigree, earned through his 12 seasons (1981-92) as a linebacker with the Bears, along with assistant coaching stops in Baltimore and San Francisco, Singletary is clearly qualified to be an NFL head coach.

Truth be told, why did Jones interview Singletary on Tuesday?

Because he had to do so.

That's the Rooney Rule.

Initiated in 2002 by its namesake, Dan Rooney, Steelers owner and chairman of the NFL's diversity committee, the Rooney Rule requires clubs to interview at least one minority candidate for a head coaching vacancy.

Singletary is the second black coach to come through Jones' door during this search, but his presence in Dallas seems somewhat calculated.

Perhaps Jones heard the whispers around the NFL that he somehow was not honoring the spirit of the Rooney Rule with this search for Parcells' replacement.



Before Singletary, Jones interviewed a member of Parcells' staff, Todd Bowles, who is black. Some candidates get a more in-depth visit than others. Norv Turner, for example, received a lengthy interview with Jones, extending from Sunday into Monday.

Bowles' interview was much briefer. Maybe an hour. So brief, "The time he spent waiting outside the office for the interview was longer than the time he spent inside the office," one insider put it.

Unfortunately, Singletary's visit was expected to be brief.

Turner, the 49ers' offensive coordinator and a former Cowboys assistant with two stints as a head coach (Commanders and Raiders), probably will get the job by today. But the Cowboys can't say they didn't abide by NFL policy.

In the Bay Area, the Rooney Rule has become routine.

It arose in January 2003 when the 49ers were looking to replace Steve Mariucci. They brought in two longtime NFL defensive coaches, Patriots coordinator Romeo Crennel and Jets coordinator Ted Cottrell, for interviews.

Cottrell was paraded in front of the TV cameras at the 49ers' training complex.

Dennis Erickson ended up getting the job. And we saw how that went.

In January 2005, when the 49ers were looking to replace Erickson, they went back to Crennel, who was still the Patriots' defensive coordinator. Crennel answered the call again.

Mike Nolan got the job.

Again, the 49ers interviewed Crennel and Cottrell, in part, because they had to do so. Both are black.

That's the Rooney Rule.

Since it was mandated, there have been a number of doors opened to black coaches who previously might have been overlooked. In 2006, the NFL had seven black coaches.

Two of them, Art Shell of the Raiders and Dennis Green of the Cardinals, were fired at season's end. Two, Tony Dungy of the Colts and Lovie Smith of the Bears, are competing for the Super Bowl, a first for the NFL.

The past few weeks have seen the Rooney Rule put to an intriguing test.

Raiders owner Al Davis is renowned for being colorblind, hiring his former quarterback, Tom Flores, to be the franchise's head coach in 1979. Flores is of Mexican descent. Davis made Shell his coach twice; in 1989, Shell became the first black coach in the NFL's modern era.

Davis, NFL sources said, initially considered interviewing longtime Raiders defensive assistant and Hall of Famer Willie Brown to satisfy Rooney Rule requirements in his haste to snag the USC team of Steve Sarkisian and Lane Kiffin. Would Brown really have had a shot at the job?

Some believe the Rooney Rule is disingenuous. Some think it's patronizing. Why, for example, would Singletary allow himself to be a late candidate for a job that, by all appearances, he will not win?

"Because eventually, after enough interviews, one of those guys will get that head coaching job," said Ray Sherman, 55, the Titans' wide receivers coach who has 19 years of NFL offensive coaching experience with seven teams, including the 49ers.

Sherman, who is black, has not gotten the opportunity to interview for a head coaching position, which boggles one's mind.

Warren Moon's former tutor in Houston watched former Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin, who is 34 and black, get the Steelers job last week.

Sherman also watched with great interest as Kiffin, who is 31 and white and with no meaningful NFL coaching experience, was named the Raiders head coach.

"All I've ever asked for is the opportunity to interview," Sherman said. "Right now, the trend is for the younger guys, I guess. Maybe the Rooney Rule came too late for me."

There has been talk that the Rooney Rule has outlived its usefulness. Nonsense.

"I would like to think owners would hire the best coach," Smith said Monday. "But I am here because of the Rooney Rule. I definitely think we need to keep it in place."

Nancy Gay is a columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle. She can be reached at ngay@sfchronicle.com.

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FIrst of all anyone named Nancy Gay from SF shouldn't be writting about football since they don't know what they are talking about.

First Jerry didn't "HAVE" to interview Singletary since he had already satisfied the Rooney Rule.

Second, since when does having a hof playing career qualify you as a head coach? I guess Montana should be a HC then. Oh yeah, what about that HOF HC Bart Starr? He did a bang up job when he was HC.

This is why the Rooney Rule is stupid now because people like this make it more than it is.

SOmeone should be judged by their ability to do the job, not their skin color.

To semi quote Martin Luther King Jr. "Judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin."

 

[burmafrd]

JJ wanted BP and no one else- but he had to do that BS token interview. THAT was just plain POLITICALLY CORRECT STUPIDITY. If an Owner knows who exactly he wants, then he should be able to hire that person without the BS. Put it in there that he tells the league that this is the person he wants- and ONLY if that does not work out will he have open interviews. THAT is the way it should be.

 

[BulletBob]

Other Voices: Is Rooney Rule spirit being upheld?

By NANCY GAY
SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE

MIAMI -- If you've paid attention to the hopping head-coach screening process around the NFL lately, you've no doubt heard of the Rooney Rule.

"Because eventually, after enough interviews, one of those guys will get that head coaching job," said Ray Sherman, 55, the Titans' wide receivers coach who has 19 years of NFL offensive coaching experience with seven teams, including the 49ers.

Sherman, who is black, has not gotten the opportunity to interview for a head coaching position, which boggles one's mind.

Warren Moon's former tutor in Houston watched former Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin, who is 34 and black, get the Steelers job last week.

Sherman also watched with great interest as Kiffin, who is 31 and white and with no meaningful NFL coaching experience, was named the Raiders head coach.

"All I've ever asked for is the opportunity to interview," Sherman said. "Right now, the trend is for the younger guys, I guess. Maybe the Rooney Rule came too late for me."

OK, so should the NFL now institute the "Sherman" rule?

Seriously, if the trend is going toward younger and younger coaches, isn't that age discrimination?

If the trend continues, there will be very few older Head Coaches in the league who are over the age of 50.

Don't we need to fix this?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's helped. I don't think there is any question. The numbers do not lie.

The Rooney Rule was passed and implimented for the 2001 Season?

In 2000, there were 2 coaches of color in the NFL. Last season, there were something like 7. You may not agree with the policy but I think that the facts are clear. More minorities are getting hired to coach in the NFL. At some point you have to look at cause and effect here. What has changed?

 

[WoodysGirl]

OK, so should the NFL now institute the "Sherman" rule?

Seriously, if the trend is going toward younger and younger coaches, isn't that age discrimination?

If the trend continues, there will be very few older Head Coaches in the league who are over the age of 50.

Don't we need to fix this?

I know you were being facetious, but believe it or not, I read something a while back about how they thought there was some age discrimination in the coaching hires. Everyone wanted someone of the Gruden-Cowher-Fisher model. I thought it was interesting. And then the trend went to older, more experienced coaches - Vermeil, Parcells, Gibbs...and now they're hiring guys fresh out of college; Lane Kiffin anyone?

 

[Chevyman08]

The Rooney rule is an insult to minorities in my opinion. The media guessing if a minority coaching candidate is a token or not can't be good. How is that helping minorities? To me getting a token interview would be more of an insult than not getting an interview at all.

The Rooney rule may have been needed years ago but not anymore. The good coaches are going to get interviewed and get the job regardless of race.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The Rooney rule is an insult to minorities in my opinion. The good coaches are going to get interviewed and get the job regardless of race. The rule may have been needed years ago but not anymore.

How do you see this as need "years ago" but not any longer?

 

[TheSkaven]

As for whether it helps or hurts minority coaching candidates, the only thing that matters are the candidates being interviewed and what they think. And most, if not all, seem to have a positive view of the rule whether they're hired or not.

Oops, posted my thoughts in another thread in the other forum (doh! *insert still not happy about the dual forums note here*)

Perhaps I am niave, but I really believe that the NFL is color-blind these days. The stereotype about black quarterbacks finally has been broken, we have 5 NFL black head coaches (15%, well above the representative ratio in the population) and two of them are competing in the Superbowl.

We also seem to be getting more black assistants, all of which make for potential prospects down the road.

Conversely, with the "Rooney Rule", every time a black man is interviewed for a head coaching job some pundit wonders whether it's a legitimate interview or a token interview. That can't be good. And who wants to be considered for an interview purely because of their color/race? I surely wouldn't, that's an insult.

It just seems to me that the rule is counter-productive. I have yet to see a coach hired that you could specifically point to the "Rooney Rule". You could make the case for Mike Tomlin, but considering he was hired by Rooney, I can't imagine he was interviewed purely to satisfy his own rule.

All JMHO, of course.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oops, posted my thoughts in another thread in the other forum (doh! *insert still not happy about the dual forums note here*)

Perhaps I am niave, but I really believe that the NFL is color-blind these days. The stereotype about black quarterbacks finally has been broken, we have 5 NFL black head coaches (15%, well above the representative ratio in the population) and two of them are competing in the Superbowl.

We also seem to be getting more black assistants, all of which make for potential prospects down the road.

Conversely, with the "Rooney Rule", every time a black man is interviewed for a head coaching job some pundit wonders whether it's a legitimate interview or a token interview. That can't be good. And who wants to be considered for an interview purely because of their color/race? I surely wouldn't, that's an insult.

It just seems to me that the rule is counter-productive. I have yet to see a coach hired that you could specifically point to the "Rooney Rule". You could make the case for Mike Tomlin, but considering he was hired by Rooney, I can't imagine he was interviewed purely to satisfy his own rule.

All JMHO, of course.

I would point out that minority represents more then just black but thats kinda ticky tack.

I look back at Dungy's career and I can't help but wonder if he would ever have gotten the chance to be a HC had Dennis Green not hired him in Minnesota?

Lovie Smith is on record as saying he believe that had the Rooney Rule not been in place, he wouldn't have the job he has today. Seriously, Lovie Smith was passed over several times by NFL teams, including us, for multiple seasons. Tomlin is absolutly a Rooney Hire in more ways then one. The Steelers never even meet Tomlin until they interviewed him. They inteviewed him as the minority required candidate.

I agree that it is a bit demeaning but the way I look at it, it doesn't matter how you get there. At matters that your there. I hope that in time, the rule is not needed but at this point, I guess I just believe that that time has not yet come.

 

[AbeBeta]

THat's exactlly what he said. See bolded text of your own reply.

You said

I look at a comment from mike Singletary today and he said he was pleased he got the interview but was wondering if it had anything to do with the Rooney Rule.

Singletary said

"And for me, it's just one of those things that goes along with the territory. If every time somebody called, you sit back and go 'Well, I wonder if this is a Rooney Rule?' For me, every time I have the opportunity to have an interview, I feel very blessed and privileged to have it, and I make the most of the opportunity and I go from there."

You made it sound like Mike S was questioning why he got the interview -- I read this as him saying he doesn't really think about the interview that way.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think the Rooney rule is overrated, afterall, teams are only interviewing qualified minority candidates, it's not like they just pick some random minority position coach to satisfy the rule, it works prepping minorities in the interview process, but again, you're interviewing a quality candidate, and w/ the success of Dungy and now Lovie, owners are just going to forget the Rooney rule, and will interview quality minority coaches because they see minority HCs doing good, and that a great minority coach can and do make great head coaches

 

[Doomsday101]

I think the Rooney Rule has some benefits to minority coaches. It allows them the access to talk with the front office and while they may not get that particular job I think it allows them to leave an impression with the front office should you be looking for a HC down the road. For a guy like Singletary say he does not get this job but because of the interview he leaves an impression on Jones that should we be forced to seek a HC down the road. Myself I'm not one who feels the Singletary interview had anything to do with the Rooney Rule just using it as an example of how this helps a coach

 

[AbeBeta]

I look back at Dungy's career and I can't help but wonder if he would ever have gotten the chance to be a HC had Dennis Green not hired him in Minnesota?

I've followed Dungy for a long time. One thing folks may forget is that back in the 80's when he was DC in Pittsburg, he was regularly mentioned as a guy who would likely become a head coach. It took him until 1995 to get a job. The situation was so ridiculous that Dungy would be interviewed yearly during NFL pre-games etc. about why he wasn't getting a HC job (interviewed by the press, not by teams). Think about all the crap coaches hired instead of him during that period and you can see why many believe there was a serious discrimination problem.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think the Rooney Rule has some benefits to minority coaches. It allows them the access to talk with the front office and while they may not get that particular job I think it allows them to leave an impression with the front office should you be looking for a HC down the road. For a guy like Singletary say he does not get this job but because of the interview he leaves an impression on Jones that should we be forced to seek a HC down the road. Myself I'm not one who feels the Singletary interview had anything to do with the Rooney Rule just using it as an example of how this helps a coach

I agree with you 100% Dooms. Jerry talks and other owners listen. That's a fact. It may not be here in Dallas but I'm certain that if asked, Jerry would probably give a good reference on the interview. It's down the road that it will make a difference if not here and now. Good point Dooms.

 

[NinePointOh]

And who wants to be considered for an interview purely because of their color/race? I surely wouldn't, that's an insult.

No candidate is forced to sit through an interview they don't want. In fact, many have specifically turned down interview offers because they didn't believe them to be genuine (see: Matt Millen's search in 2003). The candidates who have actually been interviewed are apparently not insulted by the opportunity.

It just seems to me that the rule is counter-productive. I have yet to see a coach hired that you could specifically point to the "Rooney Rule". You could make the case for Mike Tomlin, but considering he was hired by Rooney, I can't imagine he was interviewed purely to satisfy his own rule.

Under what circumstances would you possibly be able to conclude the Rooney Rule was the reason for a particular hire? If you mean you don't see any minority coaches being hired that aren't really qualified for the job, I think you're grossly misconstruing the intent of the rule.

 

[superpunk]

The NFL is based on merits - in general, the best guy for the job is hired. If this rule gets people to look at a coach simply to satisfy it, but he ends up wowing them so they go with that guy instead of some retread, then hey - it's good for the league, AND minorities.

For example, your coach just retired, and you're looking to hire Retread A - who's been a failure, but at least you know his name. In order to satisfy the Rooney Rule, you interview Hispanic Coordinator B. He impresses you so much, you hire him - instead of going with the same old, same old.

The best thing the Rooney Rule does is expand the interview process, so we're not simply rehashing the same guys over and over again.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The NFL is based on merits - in general, the best guy for the job is hired. If this rule gets people to look at a coach simply to satisfy it, but he ends up wowing them so they go with that guy instead of some retread, then hey - it's good for the league, AND minorities.

For example, your coach just retired, and you're looking to hire Retread A - who's been a failure, but at least you know his name. In order to satisfy the Rooney Rule, you interview Hispanic Coordinator B. He impresses you so much, you hire him - instead of going with the same old, same old.

The best thing the Rooney Rule does is expand the interview process, so we're not simply rehashing the same guys over and over again.

see, I have a friend who needs help, it's not me, but my friend...

 

[burmafrd]

the same guys keep coming up though; that is the way it always is. New guys enter the process all the time. The Rooney rule changed nothing that would not have happened anyway. things were already changing before the rule was brought in- and the ONLY reason the rule came was because Jessie Jackson and the other welfare pimps were going to try and extort the NFL.