Has the Rooney rule helped or hurt minorities?

[tyke1doe]

OK - so you differentiate between trend and systematice pattern. I trust that you would refrain from arguing that a trend cannot in time evolve into a systematic pattern.

It very well can.

So, let's say that the trend continues. It's now 2050 and now all of the coaches in the league are under the age of 40. For the past 20 years, owners wouldn't even look at a candidate over the age of 45, and head coaches are getting fired repeatedly once they hit their 50s.

Your trend has just turned into a systematic pattern.

Does the NFL have to fix it?

It might possibly have to fix it.
But that's not the problem now.

You're arguing a future possibility to justify why a current practice shouldn't apply.

I merely saying that the situation doesn't exist for which you can compare age discrimination to racial discrimination.

Does the NFL step in and mandate that owners must interview at least one candidate over the age of 50?

If the coaches over 50 can show that there is a deliberate and systematic attempt to keep them from such positions, then that would have to be considered. But that's not the case now nor has it been in the past.

 

[BulletBob]

There may be something to this but I can honestly say that, with the exception of somebodies Dad coaching a team, the better player has unsually won out. I don't have experience other then HS so it would be misleading for me to try and say that I know this for a fact at every level but I do believe that Coaches play the guys who afford them the best chance to keep there jobs.

Good point.

Now draw on that parallel.

Could it not be argued that (in this day and age) the best coaching candidate usually wins out, and that the owner will select the guy who affords him the best chance at fielding a successful product?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Good point.

Now draw on that parallel.

Could it not be argued that (in this day and age) the best coaching candidate usually wins out, and that the owner will select the guy who affords him the best chance at fielding a successful product?

I could support this position if that interview process consisted of an open try out. It does not. In sports, everybody has a shot, so long as you have talent. Not so in coaching. There are many, many talented coaches that will never get a chance to show it if they never get an opportunity to go through the process.

 

[5Stars]

I could support this position if that interview process consisted of an open try out. It does not. In sports, everybody has a shot, so long as you have talent. Not so in coaching. There are many, many talented coaches that will never get a chance to show it if they never get an opportunity to go through the process.

Also, it's compounded by the fact that there are only 32 positions to fill. If there were 4000 HC jobs, I'm sure there would be more black coaches...no?

 

[BulletBob]

If the coaches over 50 can show that there is a deliberate and systematic attempt to keep them from such positions, then that would have to be considered. But that's not the case now nor has it been in the past.

Just testing your consistency, tyke.



The counter argument is that rather than have the NFL fix the problem, the individuals should set out to perform so well (as their age advances), that the owners cannot possibly exclude them simply because of age.

 

[BulletBob]

I could support this position if that interview process consisted of an open try out. It does not. In sports, everybody has a shot, so long as you have talent. Not so in coaching. There are many, many talented coaches that will never get a chance to show it if they never get an opportunity to go through the process.

OK - then how do your propose that the NFL fix this situation?

Make coaching an open tryout?

This highlights that perhaps a more effective (and rewarding) solution involves the individuals solving the problem, rather than the NFL mandating a solution.

 

[5Stars]

OK - then how do your propose that the NFL fix this situation?

Make coaching an open tryout?

This highlights that perhaps a more effective (and rewarding) solution involves the individuals solving the problem, rather than the NFL mandating a solution.

Let's fix it like the presidency...two 4 year terms as HC, then you are out!

Hey it works for the govment...except there have been no black presidents...

 

[tunahelper]

Actually, white receivers are allowed to try out for teams.

Unfortunately, not all candidates interested in coaching are given interviews.

But carry on trying to make unequal comparisons.

It is called sarcasm.

How many minority coaches are worthy of interviews? (really)

Why should a qualified (non-minority) coach miss out because of a B.S. rule?

I do not endorse affirmative action, it allows for the possibility of the unqualified to be hired first.

Look how some owners bypass the one minority to hire who they feel the best coach may be.

Is that effective?

You have a league made up of predominantly black players and racism is questioned when a black coach is not hired.

Media loves to play the race card, because the public is a sucker everytime.

Count yourself as being sucked.

 

[superpunk]

Let's fix it like the presidency...two 4 year terms as HC, then you are out!

Hey it works for the govment...except there have been no black presidents...

I've had two black presidents in 6 years.

The Palmers, baby.

Of course, the frst one got shot through his neck, so.....

 

[Doomsday101]

Let's fix it like the presidency...two 4 year terms as HC, then you are out!

Hey it works for the govment...except there have been no black presidents...

But Jesse Jackson did run. By the way does this mean we all get a vote on the coach as well. :laugh2:

 

[5Stars]

I've had two black presidents in 6 years.

The Palmers, baby.

Of course, the frst one got shot through his neck, so.....

What? I have no clue what you are talking about! Care to elaborate for us dummies?

 

[superpunk]

What? I have no clue what you are talking about! Care to elaborate for us dummies?

Then you clearly don't like 24.

 

[5Stars]

Then you clearly don't like 24.

I don't watch TV...unless it's football or the cooking channel...or that one adult channel when the wife is away...

 

[BulletBob]

Now, black coaches aren't always allowed to interview for head coaching jobs. Hence, the Rooney Rule.

Owners were under no obligation - prior to the Rooney Rule - to interview several coaches. They could have interviewed only one candidate.

Second, the issue isn't interest but opportunity.

White guys who want to be receivers are given tryouts. I don't know of many white guys who weren't allowed to tryout for an NFL team. Do you know of any?

Now we are into semantics. Black coaches are allowed to interview for any head coaching job, just like white guys are allowed to try out for teams.

The issue is indeed whether the candidate (player or coach, white or black) has demonstrated the talent and ability to merit an opportunity for the interview/tryout.

Now, you may argue that the Rooney Rule is necessary to ensure that black candidates continue to be considered, and you may be right.

But I will pose the same question to you as you did to me. Do you know of any black candidates this season who weren't allowed to interview for an NFL Head Coaching Position?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

OK - then how do your propose that the NFL fix this situation?

Make coaching an open tryout?

This highlights that perhaps a more effective (and rewarding) solution involves the individuals solving the problem, rather than the NFL mandating a solution.

The problem is fixing itself and the Rooney Rule is, IMO, part of that solution.

Here's the thing. Minority hires are only going to become more commen with an influx of assistants. You fix that by getting more minorities hired in the college ranks. If there is a problem that I have with this whole deal, it's that so much attention is focused on the Pro's as opposed to the College level, where the real problem exists. It is unrealistic to expect the Pro Game to heal itself overnite when the College game is at such a huge disparity where this issue is concerned. Fix it at the grass roots level and the problem will correct itself.

I do believe it's getting better bit I also believe there is a long way to go. I am not in favor of hiring minority coaches because they are minorities. I am in favor of everybody getting a good look equally regardless of color. The only way to even the playing field is to get more qualified candidates in positions of responsability at the college level. Effect change there. That will eventually feed the NFL and this issue will become a distant memory.

 

[5Stars]

But Jesse Jackson did run. By the way does this mean we all get a vote on the coach as well. :laugh2:

No...the fans cannot vote! If that were to happen, Parcells would have been impeached! (or assassinated by iceberg)...(didn't iceberg say he lived in Dallas)

 

[Cajuncowboy]

So, if I'm in a crunch, I love changing the satellite radio to one of the rap stations, and watching their faces as they walk by. Always grumbling about "that rap-crap"....they crack me up. That's who I imagine burm to be. (and yeah - they're ALL big supporters of the elephant.)

You are making an assumption that those who are Republican are racist.

May I remind you that it was the Democrats who tried to stop the equal rights amendment from being passed, but it was the Republicans who pushed it through.

And I can name quite a few donkeys who are racist and prove it every day.

You need an education regarding the history of the plight of racism before pigeon holeing a group of people.

 

[superpunk]

You are making an assumption that those who are Republican are racist.

May I remind you that it was the Democrats who tried to stop the equal rights amendment from being passed, but it was the Republicans who pushed it through.

And I can name quite a few donkeys who are racist and prove it every day.

You need an education regarding the history of the plight of racism before pigeon holeing a group of people.

No, you inferred that.

I implied burm is a republican, and appears very similar to the ones I work with.

 

[tyke1doe]

Also, it's compounded by the fact that there are only 32 positions to fill. If there were 4000 HC jobs, I'm sure there would be more black coaches...no?

Look at college football.

How many positions of the hundreds of college coaching jobs are filled by blacks?

This, of course, excluding historically black colleges.

Last time I heard, the figures were dismal.

 

[5Stars]

Look at college football.

How many positions of the hundreds of college coaching jobs are filled by blacks?

This, of course, excluding historically black colleges.

Last time I heard, the figures were dismal.

Good point!