Heard a tidbit about Holland on GaC today

[Stash]

How can he not be better than a rooke 4th rounder from D2, a 7th rounder and an UFA from a year before? Are you even listening to yourself? Even though he came into camp overweight, from all indications during the 1st week of practice he was playing well and doing what he's done since he's been here.

Simply because those players are actually capable of suiting up and playing while Holland obviously isn't.

If they start him then it's because he's better than whatever else we have or what we know is out there (Waters, Davis etc) and for no other reason.

Or it tells us they're stupid enough to have faith in someone who doesn't deserve it.

 

[RS12]

It's never good to come in overweight, but why are people acting like he's just slacking while these other guys work? Maybe he's legitimately hurt just like anyone else?

Like gimme said, you play the best player. You don't play some inferior player and cost the entire team and maybe your QB's health just because you get mad at a guy.

Gawd, fans are so quick to call for people's heads. It's like they enjoy that more than the game sometimes.

He is always "legitimately" hurt, thats the problem. Being out of shape means "lazy" and "disinterested". Cutting him sends a message, and it is not like they are going to miss him for those three half games a year he actually shows up.

 

[gimmesix]

By just suiting up, he would 'pass a test' that Montrae Holland can't.

That's what I want a player who is better at suiting up, but isn't the better player when he's on the field.

Look, I don't care which player ends up being the starter. I just want the best one in the lineup. If the Dallas coaches believe Holland is the best one, then I'm not going to argue with them wanting him to start. Simple as that.

If they believed like many of you do on this board, that Holland should be cut, then he would be.

And they might end up being wrong about this, but I would never expect them to start a player they believe to be inferior over one they believe to be superior, even if he has weight issues.

 

[Stash]

Davis and Colombo played poorly last season. There's no indication that Holland has. Again, if Dallas believes he's the best option, then the Cowboys should have him as the starter. Simple as that.

Yeah because "the Cowboys are never wrong".

I've heard the rhetoric before. Didn't believe it then either. This from the folks whop brought us Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, James Marten and Robert Brewster. To say nothing of keeping bums like Procter and McQuistan around.

I guess this is what you resort to when people disagree with you?

It's not directed at you personally but more at the 'Dallas knows all' mentality.

Never have I agreed with every move Dallas has made. I'm not even saying this will turn out to be the right move.

I think it's great this forum has folks like you around to be a jerk when someone doesn't support your opinion.

I welcome you to disagree with my opinion, but please have a point other than "Dallas Knows Best" and some wishful thinking.

 

[21Savage]

Simply because those players are actually capable of suiting up and playing while Holland obviously isn't.



Or it tells us they're stupid enough to have faith in someone who doesn't deserve it.

None of those guys have proved they can start for a 16 game season at the NFL level, Holland has.

We can slant the facts whichever way we feel like.

Yeah, they'll be stupid enough to do that. And you're sooooo smart, you're arguing the point with me on a message board on a Monday night

 

[Stash]

That's what I want a player who is better at suiting up, but isn't the better player when he's on the field.

Montrae Holland can be Larry Allen II. If he can't play, he's usless, absolutely useless. And that's the point that so few get or they try to overlook. This is what reality shows us.

Look, I don't care which player ends up being the starter. I just want the best one in the lineup. If the Dallas coaches believe Holland is the best one, then I'm not going to argue with them wanting him to start. Simple as that.

Definitely sounds 'simple'.

If they believed like many of you do on this board, that Holland should be cut, then he would be.

And they might end up being wrong about this, but I would never expect them to start a player they believe to be inferior over one they believe to be superior, even if he has weight issues.

I wanted Leonard Davis gone last year. Who was 'right' then? Take a look around the league, the guy is so far gone that he can't even find work, what does that say about Dallas' expertise in the area of offensive linemen?

It's far from just 'weight issues' for Holland, it's a complete lack of availability and therefore dependability.

 

[RS12]

None of those guys have proved they can start for a 16 game season at the NFL level, Holland has.

We can slant the facts whichever way we feel like.

Yeah, they'll be stupid enough to do that. And you're sooooo smart, you're arguing the point with me on a message board on a Monday night

When was this exactly? Four years ago doesnt count. Since he has been here he is either fat and out shape or hurt.

 

[Stash]

None of those guys have proved they can start for a 16 game season at the NFL level, Holland has.

Holland has proven he can't make it through a week of camp. That's what he's proven.

We can slant the facts whichever way we feel like.

Yeah, they'll be stupid enough to do that. And you're sooooo smart, you're arguing the point with me on a message board on a Monday night

And that means what? I should just shut my brain off and follow along like the rest of you?

Sorry, not my thing. I think for myself.

These are the guys who were 'smart' enough to keep Colombo and Davis around too.

Real 'geniuses' when it comes to O-line. How dare we question!

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

It's never good to come in overweight, but why are people acting like he's just slacking while these other guys work? Maybe he's legitimately hurt just like anyone else?

Like gimme said, you play the best player. You don't play some inferior player and cost the entire team and maybe your QB's health just because you get mad at a guy.

Gawd, fans are so quick to call for people's heads. It's like they enjoy that more than the game sometimes.

The idea of finding something in a rookie contract arkin, costa, or even Nagy is much more appealing than a 30 something who never cares enough to be in shape and always gets hurt. Doesn't holland easily fit into the RW, mb3, Davis, Colombo group that probably should have been gone a year sooner?

Garrett Has mentioned " playing the best 5 guys". To me that means some willingness to move a player out of position like gurode to LG.

 

[Stash]

When was this exactly? Four years ago doesnt count. Since he has been here he is either fat and out shape or hurt.

Yeah, welcome back to 2008!

Now let's charge up the Flux Capacitor and get Back to the Future!

 

[gimmesix]

Yeah because "the Cowboys are never wrong".

I've heard the rhetoric before. Didn't believe it then either. This from the folks whop brought us Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, James Marten and Robert Brewster. To say nothing of keeping bums like Procter and McQuistan around..

No, the Cowboys are wrong plenty of times. But do you really want them to say, "Hey, we've been wrong before, so despite our better judgment, let's start the inferior player."

I welcome you to disagree with my opinion, but please have a point other than "Dallas Knows Best" and some wishful thinking.

I think Holland's success when he has played has already been pointed out. As well as the fact that no one has overlooked his weight problems and inability to stay healthy.

Personally, I'd rather ride with the "Dallas knows best" philosophy than the "Stash knows best" mind-set, which has no weight to it other than Holland being overweight.

Instead of understanding why Dallas would want to start a player who has actually been on the field during the regular season and done well, your line of thinking seems to be that some players we've barely seen with the starting lineup in the preseason should be awarded the job.

Again, I'll trust the coaches over you and your "wishful thinking."

 

[28 Joker]

While I was very much pleased with Nagy's play, I don't think anyone should say he should start yet.

It will be interesting to see him (if we do) against the Vikings starters, since he will be lined up against Kevin Williams. Pass that test, then we can anoint him.

Gimme,

Nagy is actually winning the job on the field, right now. Should that not mean something? Again, where is Holland? Better yet, who is Montrae Holland?

What has Montrae Holland accomplished that has earned him the right to be automatically plugged into Dallas' offensive front? Holland is a spot starter at best, and he is a bad fit on this offensive line. He's 31 and badly out of shape, evidently with a bad back. The Cowboys need to get younger and more athletic in the interior right now.

Right now, Nagy is ahead of Arkin for sure. Holland has been MIA. Costa has been impressive. I can tell that Garrett really likes Nagy, too.

In fact, Costa's bulldog toughness, strength, 24 year old legs, and athletic ability would be a much better option than Holland.

Is Holland the "right kind of guy" to help a 6-10 team bounce back?

Bring on the Vikings' front. San Diego's front is very good and extremely athletic, and they have good size. The Chargers had the top rated defense last year. Nagy has already passed one big test, and he played in the Big Ten. Nagy probably isn't going to be in awe of that dome.

This is just me, but I don't need to see Nagy play against the Vikings in order to view Nagy as a better option, than one Montrae Holland. I can make that call now. I've seen enough of him, and I've seen Holland.

If Nagy goes out and blows it up, again. The coaches will have a hard time justifying starting Holland. That's all I've got to say about it. I don't know why the coaches would want to depend on a player like Holland, to begin with. I would have already booted him. He doesn't even fit the offensive line profile anymore.

 

[gimmesix]

Montrae Holland can be Larry Allen II. If he can't play, he's usless, absolutely useless. And that's the point that so few get or they try to overlook. This is what reality shows us.

If he can't play, he doesn't and we move on.

But if he can play and Dallas feels like he should, why do you believe you know better than the coaches on this team? I guess you must always be right, huh?

 

[Stash]

No, the Cowboys are wrong plenty of times. But do you really want them to say, "Hey, we've been wrong before, so despite our better judgment, let's start the inferior player."

How is 'capable' confused with 'inferior'? Nagy, Costa and Arkin are actually 'capable' of playing.

I think Holland's success when he has played has already been pointed out. As well as the fact that no one has overlooked his weight problems and inability to stay healthy.

I've mentioned it myself. But that ship has sailed. During his time in Dallas, he has proven again and again to be completely unreliable.

Personally, I'd rather ride with the "Dallas knows best" philosophy than the "Stash knows best" mind-set, which has no weight to it other than Holland being overweight.

You do that. Follow along with whatever they serve up. And I'll contionue to think for myself and disagree when I think the team is making a mistake. And feel free to tell me if and when I'm wrong, I can take that too.

Instead of understanding why Dallas would want to start a player who has actually been on the field during the regular season and done well, your line of thinking seems to be that some players we've barely seen with the starting lineup in the preseason should be awarded the job.

The guys in shape to work? Those capable of playing? Or anyone on the street that can actually set foot on the field? Yeah, give me one of those over the guy who can't.

Again, I'll trust the coaches over you and your "wishful thinking."

You're the guy dreaming of a 'healthy' Montrae Holland here, not me.

 

[Stash]

If he can't play, he doesn't and we move on.

When? After Week One and his contract is guaranteed? After camp is over and the much-need time for coaching and building cohesiveness is past?

But if he can play and Dallas feels like he should, why do you believe you know better than the coaches on this team? I guess you must always be right, huh?

You go with that.

"From the folks that brought you Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, James Marten and Robert Brewster, now comes Marvelous Montrae Holland and his ever-expanding waistband!"

Sounds great.

You were probably a "Proctologist" too...

 

[CATCH17]

I would stick to the youth movement and go with Nagy.

The oline is playing really good right now and I love the athleticism.

 

[Stash]

Have to run, but for what it's worth I appreciated the conversation. Feel free to tell me about it if I'm wrong here.

It wouldn't be the first or last time!

 

[gimmesix]

Gimme,

Nagy is actually winning the job on the field right now. Should that not mean something? Again, where is Holland? Better yet, who is Montrae Holland?

What has Montrae Holland accomplished that has earned him the right to be automatically plugged into Dallas' offensive front? Holland is a spot starter at best, and he is a bad fit on this offensive line. He's 31 and badly out of shape, evidently with a bad back. The Cowboys need to get younger and more athletic in the interior right now.

Right now, Nagy is ahead of Arkin for sure. Holland has been MIA. Costa has been impressive. I can tell that Garrett really likes Nagy, too.

In fact, Costa's bulldog toughness, strength, 24 year old legs, and athletic ability would be a much better option than Holland.

Is Holland a "right kind of guy" to help a 6-10 team bounce back?

Houck and Garrett see these guys every day. They see their flaws. They evaluate their potential and set expectations.

If Nagy having three good series against San Diego isn't enough for them (and it really shouldn't be), then it isn't enough.

They believe Holland is the best option, because he's done well in the regular season and in practices when they've watched him.

I'm not going to sit here and say I know they are wrong.

It amazes me how every year we can pick out who should be and shouldn't be starting based on a small amount of information, and the coaches, who've seen a larger amount of information, have to be wrong if they don't agree with us.

They can be wrong, but I'm not going to go against them on this just because I liked Nagy's performance for three series in a preseason game.

If Nagy goes out and blows it up, again. The coaches will have a hard time justifying starting Holland. That's all I've got to say about it. I don't know why the coaches would want to depend on a player like Holland to begin with. I would have already booted him. He doesn't even fit the offensive line profile anymore.

That's possible, and I'd like to see it because I agree with you that Nagy better fits the profile of this offensive line. Of course, Costa better fits it than Gurode, too, and I guess some on here feel the Cowboys must not know what they are doing keeping Gurode as the starter over him as well.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

All OLinemen learn better from the sidelines sitting on the bench.

 

[28 Joker]

Houck and Garrett see these guys every day. They see their flaws. They evaluate their potential and set expectations.

If Nagy having three good series against San Diego isn't enough for them (and it really shouldn't be), then it isn't enough.

They believe Holland is the best option, because he's done well in the regular season and in practices when they've watched him.

I'm not going to sit here and say I know they are wrong.

It amazes me how every year we can pick out who should be and shouldn't be starting based on a small amount of information, and the coaches, who've seen a larger amount of information, have to be wrong if they don't agree with us.

They can be wrong, but I'm not going to go against them on this just because I liked Nagy's performance for three series in a preseason game.



That's possible, and I'd like to see it because I agree with you that Nagy better fits the profile of this offensive line. Of course, Costa better fits it than Gurode, too, and I guess some on here feel the Cowboys must not know what they are doing keeping Gurode as the starter over him as well.

Look, I praised Gurode for making that stand last night and gave him his due, and I really believed he needed it. Nate Newton stated that Gurode didn't look good in the San Diego practices. Costa made a serious run at him, imo. Gurode told the hearse to go home.

Again, where is Montrae Holland?

Nagy is in the process of winning the job while Holland sits out hurt and out of shape. Bring on the Vikings, because Nagy is putting together a strong case for that LG job.

Ask yourself this.

What is the upside to Montrae Holland?

What is the upside to Bill Nagy.

The coaches better ask themselves this question, too. I think they will. The team just went 6-10, and a weak patch like Holland isn't going to cut it up front. JMO