Twitter: Helman makes his case for Dak as 4th highest paid QB

[817Gill]

If Goff or Wentz sign this offseason, there is zero chance either gets more than Wilson. Now if Goff or Wentz are made to play out this season and have fantastic years, it's possible.

People keep assuming that each QB that signs just ups the ante but that's not necessarily the case. If Carson Wentz goes out and has a good but not great year and the Eagles are good but not great, I think there is close to a zero chance he gets a deal more than Wilson's AAV of $34MM unless it has shadow money built into it.

Yeah I’m thinking both guys sign next offseason, I thought that was assumed. Also this topic of discussion is too fragmented if we try to vary the QB’s projected production. Again in this discussion, I’m assuming both QB’s play to the ability of them and their teams.

I anticipate both will have good enough seasons to where their agents can make an honest claim at getting them into the top 3 if not #1 spot. With how the market has played for the last 5 years, it’s alot more likely these guys top Russ than slot in beneath his deal.

If both play to their and their teams capabilities, you’re looking at 35M+, which would then allow Dak (if he himself has a good season), to make the case for being paid more than them. This would make his deal a lot closer to 40M than the 30M we’re sitting at now.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You are making the mistake of confusing current market value with QB rankings. They are not the same. Being paid in the top 4 among QB's is not the same as ranking him as one of the top 4 QBs. It just means he is negotiating a contract at a different point in time and under different market conditions as some QB's who might be better players. If those QBs were negotiating a new contract in today's market they might be getting $35-40 million.

You're making the mistake of assuming Dak HAS to help reset the top of the qb market.

Just because Dak is negotiating a new deal in 2019 doesn't mean he has to help reset the market at qb.

Your logic taken to its natural conclusion would suggest because Randal Cobb signed a deal in 2019 he should be making more money than Julio Jones.

Sounds ridiculous when you think of it that way huh?

 

[Bullflop]

I like Prescott. His teammates would walk on coals for him. Not sure he is deserving of 4th highest contract based on the usual performance stats. But, he has taken us to the playoffs in two of three seasons, and he is a magician in games at times. He has many intangibles, including leadership and durability. While there is no argument that he needs some work on pocket presence and ball placement, he shows that he is adaptable and is still improving. Some of the problems are not his entirely.
The money is a moot point given the market and his success over QBs that are paid more and perform less.
So, if he gets a chunk of change, it's not a bad thing, strictly speaking. We sure don't have control over it, and he is good enough to root for. I think he will improve and take us further.
Just my humble opinion.

Well said. Those strongly opposing Dak's being given a 30 million dollar contract are going to be upset, only to be forced to accept it in the end. One of the requirements of a good QB is to make those around him better. He accomplishes that through his ability to inspire his players to support him by way of their respect for him as a leader, a person and his overall commitment to the game.

He may never achieve the accuracy that some of the QBs who are considered elite in terms of their passing skills. Still, his running talent, combined with his resolve to win, sets him apart from many of the better pure passers. I'm pretty confident most of us are hoping he'll improve this year, even if it's only incrementally so. I wouldn't be surprised if his work ethic still favors him in the years beyond 2019, though.

 

[Bowdown27]

The guy has heart, is industrious, doesn't quit and most importantly is a winner. I'll take that anyday.

Im with you. 2nd in wins since he's came into the league. Needs one more playoff win to tie tony romo. I think he gets paid handsomely,

 

[OmerV]

You're making the mistake of assuming Dak HAS to help reset the top of the qb market.

Just because Dak is negotiating a new deal in 2019 doesn't mean he has to help reset the market at qb.

Your logic taken to its natural conclusion would suggest because Randal Cobb signed a deal in 2019 he should be making more money than Julio Jones.

Sounds ridiculous when you think of it that way huh?

He wouldn't be resetting anything. It's already been set. Wilson set the bar well above what Dak will get. Garappolo and Cousins already put QBs who win less at the ballpark of what Dak will get.

And no, your Cobb analogy doesn't fit with what I said because you aren't remotely comparing apples to apples. Julio Jones is a #1 receiver still playing at the peak level of his career and is the primary player at his position on his team, whereas Cobb is a #3/slot receiver who's career has been on a decline, and who is coming off an injury plagued season. The term "market conditions" doesn't refer only to a point in time without regard for other factors. A better analogy is Amari Cooper, who is not quite the quality receiver Julio Jones is, but who will likely end up making more money than Jones when his contract gets done - at least until Jones' contract is up.

You do realize that if the real estate market in an area goes up, a house may sell for a greater price than a similar or even notably better house sold for a year or two earlier, right? That's the concept. The same thing applies with football players.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

He wouldn't be resetting anything. It's already been set. Wilson set the bar well above what Dak will get. Garappolo and Cousins already put QBs who win less at the ballpark of what Dak will get.

And no, your Cobb analogy doesn't fit with what I said because you aren't remotely comparing apples to apples. Julio Jones is a #1 receiver still playing at the peak level of his career and is the primary player at his position on his team, whereas Cobb is a #3/slot receiver who's career has been on a decline, and who is coming off an injury plagued season. The term "market conditions" doesn't refer only to a point in time without regard for other factors. A better analogy is Amari Cooper, who is not quite the quality receiver Julio Jones is, but who will likely end up making more money than Jones when his contract gets done - at least until Jones' contract is up.

You do realize that if the real estate market in an area goes up, a house may sell for a greater price than a similar or even notably better house sold for a year or two earlier, right? That's the concept. The same thing applies with football players.

Yes. He would be helping to reset the top end of the qb market. One deal does not a market make. It takes a series of deals to reshape a market upward. One deal alone is just an outlier.

Moving along... I've seen you use this stupid real estate market example before.

And sadly you get it with Cobb but are blinded to it by Dak.

In your example Wilson and other top qbs are are luxury condos. And Dak is a nor quite as nice luxury condo just selling at a more opportune time for the seller.

What you keep ignoring is that Dak is a 1 bedroom starter home being bought by the Cowboys for a skyrise condo price because the Cowboys have money now and remember being homeless (Aikmen to Romo wilderness years and Romo injured in 2015).

 

[khiladi]

Here we go again with Dak’s leadership qualities:

Throwing WRs and TEs under the bus, before Cooper got here, when he was getting outplayed by Marcus Marietta looking like a deer in the headlights, rolling right into pressure and fumbling throughout the season while leading the league in sacks because he holds onto the ball too long. Looked like an absolute turd when Zeke gets suspended for his games.

But OK.. ‘intangibles’ that are only evident when the defense is balling him out, Zeke is wearing the opposing defense out or Cooper is yelling at him to throw the ball because corners are jumping the route and nobody is over top and so on..

Jerry thinks Dak is marketable, that’s it... so exciting watching this guy fumble around for three and a half quarters until Zeke tired the defense stacked boxes so Dak can make a couple throws on the first read and break a couple tackles on the QB option to get a field goal to win a game..

There is zero reason to extend him now when he has a year left..

 

[OmerV]

Yes. He would be helping to reset the top end of the qb market. One deal does not a market make. It takes a series of deals to reshape a market upward. One deal alone is just an outlier.

Moving along... I've seen you use this stupid real estate market example before.

And sadly you get it with Cobb but are blinded to it by Dak.

In your example Wilson and other top qbs are are luxury condos. And Dak is a nor quite as nice luxury condo just selling at a more opportune time for the seller.

What you keep ignoring is that Dak is a 1 bedroom starter home being bought by the Cowboys for a skyrise condo price because the Cowboys have money now and remember being homeless (Aikmen to Romo wilderness years and Romo injured in 2015).

You are the one saying Dak's ONE deal will reset the market. There have already been several contracts bigger than Dak will get, and a few right in the same range, so I'm not the one talking about one deal, you are.

As for the real estate market example, it's easy to simply say it's stupid, but if you can't actually cite a flaw in the analogy your comment is empty.

As for your comment about Dak and Cobb, that's also empty. You act as if their situations are the same, but Dak is a starting QB, and Cobb is a #3 WR. Cobb is one of 96 #1, #2 or #3 receivers in the NFL while Dak is one of only maybe 20 QBs that are worthy of starting in the NFL. Dak never misses time with injury, while Cobb has missed significant time, including last year. Dak's statistics are not sliding, while in recent years Cobb has been getting about 1/2 the receiving yards he did at his peak. And then there is the obvious fact that QBs are just higher priced and considered more valuable than any other position, even #1 WR, much less #3 WR.

 

[Whyjerry]

Just for the record.......here are the top 5


2019 Quarterback Average Rankings


PLAYER
AVERAGE
1
Russell Wilson
QUARTERBACK $35,000,000
2
Ben Roethlisberger
QUARTERBACK $34,000,000
3
Aaron Rodgers
QUARTERBACK $33,500,000
4
Matt Ryan
QUARTERBACK $30,000,000
5
Kirk Cousins
QUARTERBACK $28,000,000

If I was an agent I would hammer on that Cousins contract. Worst contract in the league but it elevates every QB that is getting ready to cash in.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You are the one saying Dak's ONE deal will reset the market. There have already been several contracts bigger than Dak will get, and a few right in the same range, so I'm not the one talking about one deal, you are.

As for the real estate market example, it's easy to simply say it's stupid, but if you can't actually cite a flaw in the analogy your comment is empty.

As for your comment about Dak and Cobb, that's also empty. You act as if their situations are the same, but Dak is a starting QB, and Cobb is a #3 WR. Cobb is one of 96 #1, #2 or #3 receivers in the NFL while Dak is one of only maybe 20 QBs that are worthy of starting in the NFL. Dak never misses time with injury, while Cobb has missed significant time, including last year. Dak's statistics are not sliding, while in recent years Cobb has been getting about 1/2 the receiving yards he did at his peak. And then there is the obvious fact that QBs are just higher priced and considered more valuable than any other position, even #1 WR, much less #3 WR.

I literally used your real estate market framework and you ignored it.

And if you don't think a league average qb getting a top 4 contract is helping to reshape top of the market I don't know what to tell you other than.... You're wrong.

 

[glimmerman]

Likey be top 3. Knowing JJ maybe even top.

 

[Flamma]

Well said. Those strongly opposing Dak's being given a 30 million dollar contract are going to be upset, only to be forced to accept it in the end. One of the requirements of a good QB is to make those around him better. He accomplishes that through his ability to inspire his players to support him by way of their respect for him as a leader, a person and his overall commitment to the game.

I don't think he's worth 30 Mil a year on average, but I won't be upset. Not my money, not my team. I'm just a fan. But I do agree with you guys on his positives. Durable as well. I love the fact the Cowboys don't suffer weeks without the starting QB due to injury. Everyone critical of Dak don't hate him. I like the guy and hope he becomes great for this team. I will be rooting for him regardless of contract.

With the way QB contracts are going I would never want to pay any QB between 30-40 Mil on average per year. Hear me out. For example, are the Chiefs better off paying Mahomes between 35-40 mil. per year, or trading him one year prior to the 5th year option for a high end first round draft choice and just picking up another good QB?

That's another 4 years to build a team around that QBs rookie deal then rinse and repeat.

 

[Bullflop]

I don't think he's worth 30 Mil a year on average, but I won't be upset. Not my money, not my team. I'm just a fan. But I do agree with you guys on his positives. Durable as well. I love the fact the Cowboys don't suffer weeks without the starting QB due to injury. Everyone critical of Dak don't hate him. I like the guy and hope he becomes great for this team. I will be rooting for him regardless of contract.

With the way QB contracts are going I would never want to pay any QB between 30-40 Mil on average per year. Hear me out. For example, are the Chiefs better off paying Mahomes between 35-40 mil. per year, or trading him one year prior to the 5th year option for a high end first round draft choice and just picking up another good QB?

That's another 4 years to build a team around that QBs rookie deal then rinse and repeat.

I agree with your ideas here, although, seeing as how the NFL has proven themselves to be a greedy establishment in the past, It follows that the players would see fit to follow suit and demand what looks like exorbitant contracts themselves. They'll always want their slice of the pie, no doubt.

In the end, I imagine we might possibly contend that greed begets greed. It's a shame that the fans are the ones that will ultimately have to pay for it, though. I'll be greatly relieved to see the contractual matters finally get settled and for the teams to actually get around to playing football.

 

[Flamma]

I agree with your ideas here, although, seeing as how the NFL has proven themselves to be a greedy establishment in the past, It follows that the players would see fit to follow suit and demand what looks like exorbitant contracts themselves. I'd suppose one might possibly contend that greed begets greed, in that respect. I'll just be relieved to see these contractual matters get settled and for teams to finally get around to actually playing the game.

Of course. Full stop. That's exactly what's happening. I'm thinking in terms of building a winning team. Some owners may not care if their team ever wins. A flashy QB that brings in a ton of money may be their only concern. Players are the same. They don't care if they are on a winning team or not, they want to be paid maximum value. This is what I find a bit concerning for players already set for life. Either pride or greed determines what team they play for, not winning. Case and point, Russel Wilson. He has already made 70+ million over his career not counting endorsements. Does he care if his team wins or not? Absolutely not. He may say he does, but it's really low on his list of priorities. He was set for life before this contract, he didn't have to sign a cap crippling contract.

 

[Bullflop]

Of course. Full stop. That's exactly what's happening. I'm thinking in terms of building a winning team. Some owners may not care if their team ever wins. A flashy QB that brings in a ton of money may be their only concern. Players are the same. They don't care if they are on a winning team or not, they want to be paid maximum value. This is what I find a bit concerning for players already set for life. Either pride or greed determines what team they play for, not winning. Case and point, Russel Wilson. He has already made 70+ million over his career not counting endorsements. Does he care if his team wins or not? Absolutely not. He may say he does, but it's really low on his list of priorities. He was set for life before this contract, he didn't have to sign a cap crippling contract.

True -- there was a time when the money to be had wasn't quite so absurd and the players played the game far more out of love and pride. Those days are gone now to a great extent. Most players have now fallen into the money pit of greedy expectations and can't get out. There may be a few who accompany their love of the greenbacks for their love of the game but unfortunately, they're in short supply. In fairness to them, however, they're risking their bodies and their healthy brains in the sport, so I'm somewhat inclined to see it in that light as well.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

How the hell did this guy EVER get a job with Cowboys?

He's a team mouthpiece. Like Mickey, he doesn't have to actually know football or have good opinions.

I suspect the entire reason for this piece is to prepare the fan base for Dak to get massively paid. Helman is just doing Jerry's bidding.

 

[Flamma]

True -- there was a time when the money to be had wasn't quite so absurd and the players played the game far more out of love and pride. Those days are gone now to a great extent. Most players have now fallen into the money pit of greedy expectations and can't get out. There may be a few who accompany their love of the greenbacks for their love of the game but unfortunately, they're in short supply. In fairness to them, however, they're risking their bodies and their healthy brains in the sport, so I'm somewhat inclined to see it in that light as well.

I agree. But I played a ton of football both organized and mostly sandlot. Of course I wasn't being paid. But I played to win. Getting stomped was never enjoyable at any level with any game.

An aside. I hated football growing up. Never wanted any part of it. I loved baseball, Hockey, and basketball. But I ran a 4.3 40. That fact alone and what I could do as a wide receiver got me to like football. Got me to love it. I was the fastest player on every football field I ever played on, that alone got me into the sport.

 

[Fletch]

I’m fine with it. The sooner it happens, the sooner it will get surpassed by other deals.

Prescott has so many intangibles like toughness, heart, smarts, and leadership. If his physical abilities continue to grow to match his intangibles, it is going to be a huge bargain.

His team mates will run through a wall for him, he is clutch as all hell, and he’s an extremely hard worker. Not to mention that he’s a winner and always has been.

I’m ready for it to get done.

Well said. The stats are there.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Well said. Those strongly opposing Dak's being given a 30 million dollar contract are going to be upset, only to be forced to accept it in the end. One of the requirements of a good QB is to make those around him better. He accomplishes that through his ability to inspire his players to support him by way of their respect for him as a leader, a person and his overall commitment to the game.

He may never achieve the accuracy that some of the QBs who are considered elite in terms of their passing skills. Still, his running talent, combined with his resolve to win, sets him apart from many of the better pure passers. I'm pretty confident most of us are hoping he'll improve this year, even if it's only incrementally so. I wouldn't be surprised if his work ethic still favors him in the years beyond 2019, though.

Name of the game is championships. I don't really care who inspires what and neither should the fan base or the team. Win a championship and then talk about record deals. You don't do that, you shouldn't be paid like you have. I mean, this isn't hard. I feel like people believe that fans are just going to be there, no matter what. I guess I just don't believe that. I mean, as hard as it is to believe (perhaps it's naivete' on my part), I think that the fan base is much closer then many think to just throwing their hands up and finding something else. I mean, we are coming up on 25 years now, since we've even been to an NFC Championship, not won a Championship but even been to one. I believe that if Dak is not able to win a Championship, he is going to face some serious blow back and if he signs a 30 million deal, it's going to be that much harder. The team will suffer the consequences, as well, IMO. I just don't think this is a smart way to go but hey, I suppose we will see what happens.

 

[ChronicCowboy]

We won’t be able to resign Zeke and/or Coop if Dak is making 30 million per. I guarantee one of them walks within the next 2 years.

And they are both light years better than Dak.