Herschel Walker

[zrinkill]

One of the greatest athletes of all time.

 

[RaZon]

One of the greatest athletes of all time.

I do agree, he was one of those "special" athletes. We had never seen anyone that big with that kind of speed.

Story goes he was chubby as a kid, got pushed around, hahaha!!!!

 

[Risen Star]

Yes. A true freak of nature and a work ethic like no other.

 

[RonnieT24]

I do agree, he was one of those "special" athletes. We had never seen anyone that big with that kind of speed.

Story goes he was chubby as a kid, got pushed around, hahaha!!!!

I still have to laugh at all my friends and coworkers and their reaction to the news that Herschel was foregoing his senior year in college to go play in the USFL. So many people were mad and the thing I heard most often was that "he will never be considered among the all time greats." I laughed at them.. He already had 5000+ yards which was good for second on the all time list at that time, a national championship, and a Heisman.. The only thing playing another season would have done would have been to get him another Heisman, the all time rushing lead, and cost him about 2 million dollars.

 

[CouchCoach]

Herschel was good and fun to watch but he was no Bo. However, he was a better ballet dancer than Bo. Only because Bo didn't take ballet.

 

[RaZon]

Herschel was good and fun to watch but he was no Bo. However, he was a better ballet dancer than Bo. Only because Bo didn't take ballet.

What are you basing that claim off of?

Can't be NCAA exploits, Walker had more yards/TD in three seasons than Bo had in four. He has three seasons with 1600 or more yards, Bo never had a 1600 or more season.

 

[RaZon]

I still have to laugh at all my friends and coworkers and their reaction to the news that Herschel was foregoing his senior year in college to go play in the USFL. So many people were mad and the thing I heard most often was that "he will never be considered among the all time greats." I laughed at them.. He already had 5000+ yards which was good for second on the all time list at that time, a national championship, and a Heisman.. The only thing playing another season would have done would have been to get him another Heisman, the all time rushing lead, and cost him about 2 million dollars.

I have this thing about loyalty, when you sign on to compete for a college that is giving you a free education you need to hold up your end of the deal because without that college giving you the platform to display your skills there is no big pro $$$$$$$, Not a fan of.....all about me me me.

Why not tell them before signing you will be leaving after three years, if they are cool with that,.....

 

[CouchCoach]

What are you basing that claim off of?

Can't be NCAA exploits, Walker had more yards/TD in three seasons than Bo had in four. He has three seasons with 1600 or more yards, Bo never had a 1600 or more season.

I base that off watching both of them play, Bo was a better runner. Walker was all speed and a downhill runner, he did not have moves like Bo.

You can have Walker, I'll take Jackson every time over him. Besides that, Bo owns one of my favorite plays in the history of the NFL, making a fool out of Bosworth.

 

[RaZon]

I base that off watching both of them play, Bo was a better runner. Walker was all speed and a downhill runner, he did not have moves like Bo.

You can have Walker, I'll take Jackson every time over him. Besides that, Bo owns one of my favorite plays in the history of the NFL, making a fool out of Bosworth.

Who was the better runner Larry Csonka or Mercury Morris?

 

[RonnieT24]

I have this thing about loyalty, when you sign on to compete for a college that is giving you a free education you need to hold up your end of the deal because without that college giving you the platform to display your skills there is no big pro $$$$$$$, Not a fan of.....all about me me me.

Why not tell them before signing you will be leaving after three years, if they are cool with that,.....

I understand your point about loyalty.. However these colleges have been exploiting these kids for a hundred years under the guise of "a free education." Especially since a large number of them don't even bother to give the kid an education. They basically usher many of them through exposing them to as little learning as possible as long as they can suit up for games. I'm not absolving the kids of a portion of the responsibility however as kids we look the "adults" to steer us in the right direction. So when the adults are telling us "you don't have to go to that class.. she'll give you B.. see you at practice.." the kids tend to go along. Long is the list of athletes who got "college degrees" while being illiterate.. The athletes have to look out for themselves because the NCAA and these schools have shown in thousands of examples that for the most part once you can't play ball they have no use for you...

 

[RonnieT24]

I base that off watching both of them play, Bo was a better runner. Walker was all speed and a downhill runner, he did not have moves like Bo.

You can have Walker, I'll take Jackson every time over him. Besides that, Bo owns one of my favorite plays in the history of the NFL, making a fool out of Bosworth.

While I agree that Bo was a better pure runner than Herschel, Herschel was far and away the more versatile player. But yes, Bo had more wiggle. no question about that. Which one I would choose would depend on what else I had on my team. If I just needed a runner I'd go with Bo.. if I needed a receiving back, a ferocious blocker and a kick returner in addition to a pretty good runner.. I'm taking Herschel every time.

 

[RaZon]

I understand your point about loyalty.. However these colleges have been exploiting these kids for a hundred years under the guise of "a free education." Especially since a large number of them don't even bother to give the kid an education. They basically usher many of them through exposing them to as little learning as possible as long as they can suit up for games. I'm not absolving the kids of a portion of the responsibility however as kids we look the "adults" to steer us in the right direction. So when the adults are telling us "you don't have to go to that class.. she'll give you B.. see you at practice.." the kids tend to go along. Long is the list of athletes who got "college degrees" while being illiterate.. The athletes have to look out for themselves because the NCAA and these schools have shown in thousands of examples that for the most part once you can't play ball they have no use for you...

What school are you talking about that....don't even bother to give a kid an education. yep, curious.

I sign on for anything I have thought it out before signing, if I don't plan on fulfilling my end of the deal I don't sign. The school could have used my schorlarship on somebody who didn't bail on them.

All this....these kids are being used......what??? First off nobody has to play football, that is your choice. Without these schools you have no way of being noticed by a future employer.

Be up front, let the school know all that matters is your NFL shot, so see ya after three seasons. See what happens.

 

[RaZon]

While I agree that Bo was a better pure runner than Herschel, Herschel was far and away the more versatile player. But yes, Bo had more wiggle. no question about that. Which one I would choose would depend on what else I had on my team. If I just needed a runner I'd go with Bo.. if I needed a receiving back, a ferocious blocker and a kick returner in addition to a pretty good runner.. I'm taking Herschel every time.

Walker was a between the tackles/receiver RB, his thing was hit the hole and explode. Bo was more of a outside/off tackle guy, two different skill sets.

 

[RonnieT24]

What school are you talking about that....don't even bother to give a kid an education. yep, curious.

I sign on for anything I have thought it out before signing, if I don't plan on fulfilling my end of the deal I don't sign. The school could have used my schorlarship on somebody who didn't bail on them.

All this....these kids are being used......what??? First off nobody has to play football, that is your choice. Without these schools you have no way of being noticed by a future employer.

Be up front, let the school know all that matters is your NFL shot, so see ya after three seasons. See what happens.

I think you are giving these schools a pass that they have not earned. First of all back when Herschel played nobody was allowed to turn pro until they finished college so the agreement you propose would not have even been a possibility back then. Two even if it had, the USFL did not form until Herschel was already in college so he would not have had that option to begin with. As for which schools.. a BUNCH of them.. James Brookes was found to be illiterate during recent child support proceedings.. He holds a "degree" from Auburn. Dexter Manley was the most famous example from back in the day. He got a degree from Oklahoma State without being able to read. Those are just the most famous and egregious examples.. There are hundreds if not thousands of others who never make the news. Now one might be tempted to write those examples off as being "the old days." But then we remember the Duke and UNC scandal of a couple years ago where they were found to using paid "surrogates" to take exams for their hoopsters so they could remain eligible for the NCAA tournament? Think those kids were getting a quality education? The fun part was that neither school really suffered much in the way of punishment.. likely because of their high profile coaches and the great names of the schools.. but I don't think it did the kids much good.

 

[RaZon]

I think you are giving these schools a pass that they have not earned. First of all back when Herschel played nobody was allowed to turn pro until they finished college so the agreement you propose would not have even been a possibility back then. Two even if it had, the USFL did not form until Herschel was already in college so he would not have had that option to begin with. As for which schools.. a BUNCH of them.. James Brookes was found to be illiterate during recent child support proceedings.. He holds a "degree" from Auburn. Dexter Manley was the most famous example from back in the day. He got a degree from Oklahoma State without being able to read. Those are just the most famous and egregious examples.. There are hundreds if not thousands of others who never make the news. Now one might be tempted to write those examples off as being "the old days." But then we remember the Duke and UNC scandal of a couple years ago where they were found to using paid "surrogates" to take exams for their hoopsters so they could remain eligible for the NCAA tournament? Think those kids were getting a quality education? The fun part was that neither school really suffered much in the way of punishment.. likely because of their high profile coaches and the great names of the schools.. but I don't think it did the kids much good.

I talked about Walkers situation somewhere above.

So you think all college footballers never got any kind of education because of a few like Manley? I know a few former NFLers who went to my old high school who were thankful to UCLA and USC for the education they got, we have talked about it before.

So young kids should do what?

 

[RaZon]

Started thinking about Georgia running backs....

Walker
Rodney Hampton
Garrison Hearst
Terrell Davis
Knowshon Moreno
Lars Tate
Todd Gurley
Nick Chubb
Sony Michel

What other schools have given the NFL that many quality RB's?

Then at the other end of the spectrum those schools with just one stud NFL RB like...

Washington & Jefferson ....Deacon Dan Towler
Coe....Fred Jackson
Abilene Christian.....Wilbert Montgomery
Uof San Francisco....Ollie Matson
Long Beach State...Terry Metcalf
UOP....Dick Bass
Reno,...Marion Motley
Furman....Chris Warren

Trivia

Who went straight from high school to pro football?

 

[csirl]

He wanted to play pro football after his junior season at Georgia, problem......NFL didn't take juniors back then. the USFL didn't care.

Wasnt there some funny business involved? Walker's hand was forced after someone threatened to reveal he'd had discussions with an agent etc which would have made him NCAA ineligible? Took advantage of him.

 

[RonnieT24]

I talked about Walkers situation somewhere above.

So you think all college footballers never got any kind of education because of a few like Manley? I know a few former NFLers who went to my old high school who were thankful to UCLA and USC for the education they got, we have talked about it before.

So young kids should do what?

Please do not presume to think for me. It's one of my pet peeves. I played at Harvard.. I know LOTS of college footballers personally who got a quality education. I also had high school teammates who went to Florida, Miami, Tennessee, Florida State, FAMU, Bethune Cookman, Albany State, Morris Brown, Wofford, Memphis State, USC, North Carolina State, North Carolina A&T, East Carolina... well you get the picture. I can tell you first hand not all of them got any education worth a damn. Yes some of them did.. but not all of them. And that is my point.. Not one of them had the option of turning pro at that time. Mind you not all of them were NFL caliber.. But several of them were.. One was a running back who got hurt his junior year at FSU and never recovered. Had the option been there to turn pro before that he would have at least had a shot and that injury would have occurred while he was getting paid. And maybe having access to NFL doctors instead of college guys enables him to make it back completely. Another was a 6'2" 195 shutdown corner at FSU who also led the nation in punt returns and was a projected all American and first round pick but got into some trouble before his senior year and his career never recovered. Had he been able to turn pro he would have been a first round pick. After being suspended for a year by the time he got back on the team some guy named Deion Sanders had taken over his role as the badass cornerback.

To answer your ultimate question though.. "So young kids should do what?" - To me it's simple.. they should be allowed to do what is best for themselves and their families .. Basketball and Football are the only sports that have these "seniority" requirements before a kid can turn pro. Tennis players can turn pro whenever they feel like, as can golfers, gymnasts, swimmers, tracksters, hockey plays, baseball players... all can go make money at any point they feel ready.. But the two sports that pay the bills for the athletic departments at nearly every school in the NCAA.. can't. And let me not gloss over that "pays the bills" phrase. There are no less 40 colleges whose athletic programs that gross over 100 million dollars a year.. https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances. Almost all of that comes from football and basketball. It was not a huge surprise to me that the NCAA got taken to the woodshed over "name image and likeness" this year in the courts. They have been profiting off these kids for a hundred years under the guise of "free education" while neglecting the hell out of these kids in that regard.

I am never one to paint every school or coach with the same brush. I know there are some that do a great job with these young folk. But some of the school have horrid graduation rates in their football and basketball programs.. According to this ESPN article https://www.espn.com/college-footba...ad-rates-slide-gap-widens-black-white-players roughly 73% of footballers at the 56 bowl bound schools graduated in 2019-2020. So would you consider that 27% who didn't graduate "a lot?" I certainly would. It certainly isn't "a few." Doing a little quick math in my head if there are 85 kids on scholarship that's 4030 kids 27% of that is like 850 kids a year falling through the proverbial cracks. Now we know about 10% of those will just be guys turning pro early. But that still leaves almost 800 kids annually simply washing out .. If the numbers are similar for the other 100 or so schools in the NCAA D1 then those numbers really start to become staggering. Maybe 2000 kids a year brought in to make money for the schools.. sent on their merry way with nothing to show for it. And the schools raking in 100 million+ a year off their backs. Many are left with mangled bodies that will never be the same..

Thing is.. I am not advocating dismantling the NCAA as some have suggested. But they need to make some changes.. They have no one to blame but themselves for their current predicament. They have had decades to make adjustments to do better by these kids. And they have chosen not only to not do better but to double down on screwing them. Remember that kid from UConn hoops who told the story of how he was bumming food off classmates for months because the meal plan for his scholarship could not kick in before the basketball season began? He told that story to highlight the ridiculous constraints the NCAA places on athletes. I don't know if they quietly rescinded that rule but a lot of athletes chimed in with similar stories. For decades there were athletic dorms where they were well take care of but some idiotic rule change dismantled them for a time. I assume they have since been brought back because that story went away pretty quickly.

 

[jterrell]

Herschel was a great size/speed combo and the prototype kick off return man.
But in the NFL he lacked that first step quickness to make people miss.

All that mileage on is why he has had so many issues I suspect.
Sounds very much like CTE which is why it is very surprising he's running for office.

 

[RaZon]

Please do not presume to think for me. It's one of my pet peeves. I played at Harvard.. I know LOTS of college footballers personally who got a quality education. I also had high school teammates who went to Florida, Miami, Tennessee, Florida State, FAMU, Bethune Cookman, Albany State, Morris Brown, Wofford, Memphis State, USC, North Carolina State, North Carolina A&T, East Carolina... well you get the picture. I can tell you first hand not all of them got any education worth a damn. Yes some of them did.. but not all of them. And that is my point.. Not one of them had the option of turning pro at that time. Mind you not all of them were NFL caliber.. But several of them were.. One was a running back who got hurt his junior year at FSU and never recovered. Had the option been there to turn pro before that he would have at least had a shot and that injury would have occurred while he was getting paid. And maybe having access to NFL doctors instead of college guys enables him to make it back completely. Another was a 6'2" 195 shutdown corner at FSU who also led the nation in punt returns and was a projected all American and first round pick but got into some trouble before his senior year and his career never recovered. Had he been able to turn pro he would have been a first round pick. After being suspended for a year by the time he got back on the team some guy named Deion Sanders had taken over his role as the badass cornerback.

To answer your ultimate question though.. "So young kids should do what?" - To me it's simple.. they should be allowed to do what is best for themselves and their families .. Basketball and Football are the only sports that have these "seniority" requirements before a kid can turn pro. Tennis players can turn pro whenever they feel like, as can golfers, gymnasts, swimmers, tracksters, hockey plays, baseball players... all can go make money at any point they feel ready.. But the two sports that pay the bills for the athletic departments at nearly every school in the NCAA.. can't. And let me not gloss over that "pays the bills" phrase. There are no less 40 colleges whose athletic programs that gross over 100 million dollars a year.. https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances. Almost all of that comes from football and basketball. It was not a huge surprise to me that the NCAA got taken to the woodshed over "name image and likeness" this year in the courts. They have been profiting off these kids for a hundred years under the guise of "free education" while neglecting the hell out of these kids in that regard.

I am never one to paint every school or coach with the same brush. I know there are some that do a great job with these young folk. But some of the school have horrid graduation rates in their football and basketball programs.. According to this ESPN article https://www.espn.com/college-footba...ad-rates-slide-gap-widens-black-white-players roughly 73% of footballers at the 56 bowl bound schools graduated in 2019-2020. So would you consider that 27% who didn't graduate "a lot?" I certainly would. It certainly isn't "a few." Doing a little quick math in my head if there are 85 kids on scholarship that's 4030 kids 27% of that is like 850 kids a year falling through the proverbial cracks. Now we know about 10% of those will just be guys turning pro early. But that still leaves almost 800 kids annually simply washing out .. If the numbers are similar for the other 100 or so schools in the NCAA D1 then those numbers really start to become staggering. Maybe 2000 kids a year brought in to make money for the schools.. sent on their merry way with nothing to show for it. And the schools raking in 100 million+ a year off their backs. Many are left with mangled bodies that will never be the same..

Thing is.. I am not advocating dismantling the NCAA as some have suggested. But they need to make some changes.. They have no one to blame but themselves for their current predicament. They have had decades to make adjustments to do better by these kids. And they have chosen not only to not do better but to double down on screwing them. Remember that kid from UConn hoops who told the story of how he was bumming food off classmates for months because the meal plan for his scholarship could not kick in before the basketball season began? He told that story to highlight the ridiculous constraints the NCAA places on athletes. I don't know if they quietly rescinded that rule but a lot of athletes chimed in with similar stories. For decades there were athletic dorms where they were well take care of but some idiotic rule change dismantled them for a time. I assume they have since been brought back because that story went away pretty quickly.

Bottom line is nobody has to play college sports, if you make that decision it is all on you.

As we know only a tiny% of college footballers make it to the NFL, most need that degree because they will need a job after football. There are TONS of colleges that ;play football, far more little guys than big dawgs. Even a school like Alabama will only land a small % of the team in the next draft, most will move into other things and that degree will be valuable.

There is no.....he plays football doesn't need an education....going on, the footballers get the same work load everybody else does. Teachers don't care if you play football.

What do those students who don't play sports get, but the footballers need .....huh?

Stay away from football if you are feeling used, and if you decide to sign on then man up and give the school what you signed on for. Kids 21 and 22, can wait a year, they only have another 50ish to go. If I'm a coach I want young men who stand by their word, those that have character, not interested in me me me what about me? The worst thing I have seen is guys bailing on their team to get ready for the NFL,that totally sucks and shows a lack of class and is selfish.

Selfishness is a turn off, you played on a football.....team. Without your teammates there is no pro football in your future, don't ignore that.