Herschel Walker

csirl

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We all have rules just like we do here, can't do that, better not do that, we spent our lifetime dealing with these rules. Yep, the NCAA has it's rules and it should be no big deal. If ya want the job ya abide by those rules like we all do/did at work. I had to wear a tie, I had to be clean shaven, I had to meet for breakfast hungry or not, all part of the job. You wanna play college football you do what you are allowed, just that simple. If you don't want to deal with the NCAA then don't, there are other things to do besides football.

All this....these players are being used,,,,is total BS, no they aren't, none of them were kidnapped, they came to Alabama, USC, LSU, all on their own. The school will give them the platform t display their skills. So both are making out. And this deal about $$$$$$, do regular students get paid, ah....nope, so why should football players?

I'm cool with how things are right now, only thing I;d change is if a player signs on for 4 years he must honor that commitment, the NFL can't touch him until that commitment is honored.

Way back when Carlton "Cookie" Gilchrist went straight from HS to the CFL, then the Buffalo Bills.

What if you want to play in the NFL, and are maybe are good enough, but DON'T want to play college football?

NCAA and NFL are independent organisations.

NCAA is supposed to be about education.

Should athletes who arent academic be forced to do college? By going and not graduating they may have missed out on a career e.g. apprenticeship, which doesnt require college.

Note that, I'm a huge advocate of education, and applaud anyone who gets a good education via a sports scholarship.
 

RonnieT24

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What year did you play at Harvard? One of my best friends son Neil Rose played QB at Harvard in early 2000.

Your friend's son would have been about 20 years after me. I graduated in '82. Yeah.. um old. I vaguely remember Rose but I got married in 1999 and the wife made me choose between Saturday or Sunday watching football all day.. wouldn't let he have both so I picked the pros and as such I only get to watch the college games that I catch on my DVR in the middle of the night or when she's out shopping! :) I do try to catch as many college games as I can. But the main focus is usually the SEC or kids I know or whose parents I know .. stuff like that..
 

RonnieT24

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Google Walkers first three years as a Cowboy vs what Emmitt put up his first three seasons.

Obviously Herschel was great but comparing him to Emmitt is somewhat unfair. Don't forget he shared the ball with Dorsett the first two seasons so his rushing yards were lower but his receiving yards were higher.

Rushing yards - Herschel 3142 Emmitt 4213
Receiving yards - Herschel 2057, Emmitt 821

Total scrimmage yards Herschel 5199, Emmitt 5034 .. not bad..

Emmitt led the league in rushing in years 2 and 3.. something Herschel never accomplished. For their careers it's hard to compare the to. Emmitt had 21579 scrimmage yards while Herschel tapped out at 13084

Herschel did have 5084 return yards.. So his total yards in the NFL was 18168.. which is actually less than Emmitt's rushing total. Man Emmitt was a MFer. It boggles the mind to think that he ended up about 150 yards shy of 14 1000 seasons out of 15 years in the league. I blame Bruce Coslett's sorry arse for 2002.. He tried really hard not to let Emmitt get that damn record and once it became clear he couldn't stop that from happening he screwed Emmitt out 1000 that year IMHO..
 

RaZon

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What do we do with Walkers USFL numbers? If talking "pro football" what he did was pretty amazing.

Smith played behind one of the great offensive lines we have seen, and there is no reason to think Walker couldn't have put up similiar numbers if he'd stayed a Cowboy. He had that long range speed something Emmitt didn't have. Emmitt had a few more catchs in his career but Walker had by far more yards/TD's because of that speed. More of a threat to score from anywhere..

Both averaged 4.2 a carry for the career.
 

RonnieT24

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What do we do with Walkers USFL numbers? If talking "pro football" what he did was pretty amazing.

Smith played behind one of the great offensive lines we have seen, and there is no reason to think Walker couldn't have put up similiar numbers if he'd stayed a Cowboy. He had that long range speed something Emmitt didn't have. Emmitt had a few more catchs in his career but Walker had by far more yards/TD's because of that speed. More of a threat to score from anywhere..

Both averaged 4.2 a carry for the career.

I agree Herschel would have done pretty well behind the line in Dallas.. but lest we forget.. 4/5 of the line that blocked for Emmitt in 1990, Stepnoski, Newton, Tuinei and Gogan were there blocking for Herschel.. though Step was still a rook when Herschel was traded and obviously the other three were still developing. While Herschel was indeed a threat to score form anywhere.. he scored less than half as many TDs as Emmitt.. so he spent a lot of time threatening but not making good on those threats. I'm thinking Emmitt was the easier of the two to block for because he had better vision and cutting ability so he was more apt to make the linemen look good because he could find he crease anywhere along the line of scrimmage even if it opened somewhere other than where the play called for. Herschel was more of a threat to take it to the house if things opened up in front of him but physics wouldn't let him make the kinds of cuts Emmitt did. Not at that size and speed. Herschel also took many more hits per carry than Emmitt did so I question whether he would have lasted as long as Emmitt did if he was being handed the ball 20 times a game.. Ironically it was his underuse that prolonged his career.. Had he stayed in Dallas it's easy to imagine him going the Earl Campbell route and being used up after 4-5 years of heavy workload.
 

RaZon

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I agree Herschel would have done pretty well behind the line in Dallas.. but lest we forget.. 4/5 of the line that blocked for Emmitt in 1990, Stepnoski, Newton, Tuinei and Gogan were there blocking for Herschel.. though Step was still a rook when Herschel was traded and obviously the other three were still developing. While Herschel was indeed a threat to score form anywhere.. he scored less than half as many TDs as Emmitt.. so he spent a lot of time threatening but not making good on those threats. I'm thinking Emmitt was the easier of the two to block for because he had better vision and cutting ability so he was more apt to make the linemen look good because he could find he crease anywhere along the line of scrimmage even if it opened somewhere other than where the play called for. Herschel was more of a threat to take it to the house if things opened up in front of him but physics wouldn't let him make the kinds of cuts Emmitt did. Not at that size and speed. Herschel also took many more hits per carry than Emmitt did so I question whether he would have lasted as long as Emmitt did if he was being handed the ball 20 times a game.. Ironically it was his underuse that prolonged his career.. Had he stayed in Dallas it's easy to imagine him going the Earl Campbell route and being used up after 4-5 years of heavy workload.

Where do we get Emmitt having better vision? He aparently didn't have it at Florida where he gained 3928 and scored 37 times compared to Walker with 5259 yards and 52 TD's.

The thing is Walker went to the USFL if he'd started out a Cowboy I have no doubts he would have had a HOF career and put up superior numbers to Emmitt, he was simply a better athlete. He had more long runs, he could return kicks far more dangerous out in space,

Walker far more productive at the NCAA level, just as productive as a Cowboy.those first three seasons there.

Average per carry after 30
Smith
4.2
4.1
3.9
3,8
2,8
3,5

Walker

4.0
4.3
4.7
4.1
8.3....forget this
3.3
 
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RaZon

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There is talk of taking Walkers USFL numbers and combining them with his NFL exploits for Hall of Fame consideration. which is how it should be.

Floyd Little?
 

RonnieT24

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Where do we get Emmitt having better vision? He aparently didn't have it at Florida where he gained 3928 and scored 37 times compared to Walker with 5259 yards and 52 TD's.

The thing is Walker went to the USFL if he'd started out a Cowboy I have no doubts he would have had a HOF career and put up superior numbers to Emmitt, he was simply a better athlete. He had more long runs, he could return kicks far more dangerous out in space,

Walker far more productive at the NCAA level, just as productive as a Cowboy.those first three seasons there.

Average per carry after 30
Smith
4.2
4.1
3.9
3,8
2,8
3,5

Walker

4.0
4.3
4.7
4.1
8.3....forget this
3.3

You may be revising history a bit. Walker could never have started out a Cowboy because he would have been drafted right in the middle of Tony Dorsett's prime. But ignoring that I think you are selling Emmitt's achievements at Florida short.. Emmitt had 294 fewer college carries than did Herschel in 2 fewer games. I think we can agree Georgia rode Herschel harder.. and they were smart to do so. Emmitt had a slightly higher ypc average at 5.6 to 5.3. As for "superior numbers to Emmitt's?" Again, maybe early on on a per season basis but his running style was going to do him in sooner than later. Bigger and stronger dudes than he have been beaten into early retirement by NFL defenses.. again see Earl Campbell, Christian Okoye, Jamaal Lewis, Ricky Williams to name a few. If you don't learn how to avoid hits the NFL will chew you up and spit you out. But as I was a fan.. I would have loved to have seen it. Emmitt was far more efficient as a runner.. which is how he lasted 15 years and played at a pretty productive level for all of them save the one where he was injured. But Herschel was clearly more explosive.. which would have made for some fun Sundays in Dallas.. However since the Cowboys threw most of the draft picks from the trade into building the roster up had they stuck with Herschel and never made the trade there's a pretty good chance that team never gets as good as it did and they probably have to move on from Herschel in a couple of years anyway because the numbers he was putting up those first three years in Dallas did not translate into a lot of wins.. Not all his fault but we all know how this works. If you're the player you get the credit for the success and the blame for the failure.
 

RaZon

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You may be revising history a bit. Walker could never have started out a Cowboy because he would have been drafted right in the middle of Tony Dorsett's prime. But ignoring that I think you are selling Emmitt's achievements at Florida short.. Emmitt had 294 fewer college carries than did Herschel in 2 fewer games. I think we can agree Georgia rode Herschel harder.. and they were smart to do so. Emmitt had a slightly higher ypc average at 5.6 to 5.3. As for "superior numbers to Emmitt's?" Again, maybe early on on a per season basis but his running style was going to do him in sooner than later. Bigger and stronger dudes than he have been beaten into early retirement by NFL defenses.. again see Earl Campbell, Christian Okoye, Jamaal Lewis, Ricky Williams to name a few. If you don't learn how to avoid hits the NFL will chew you up and spit you out. But as I was a fan.. I would have loved to have seen it. Emmitt was far more efficient as a runner.. which is how he lasted 15 years and played at a pretty productive level for all of them save the one where he was injured. But Herschel was clearly more explosive.. which would have made for some fun Sundays in Dallas.. However since the Cowboys threw most of the draft picks from the trade into building the roster up had they stuck with Herschel and never made the trade there's a pretty good chance that team never gets as good as it did and they probably have to move on from Herschel in a couple of years anyway because the numbers he was putting up those first three years in Dallas did not translate into a lot of wins.. Not all his fault but we all know how this works. If you're the player you get the credit for the success and the blame for the failure.

Walker played until he was 35, so...? Ah, Okoye was a 26 year old rookie and Campbell played until he was 30, Look at what Emmitt did after 30. not much. John Riggins played 14 seasons banging and clanging. Larry Csonka a 12 year career ramming into defenses, Jerome Bettis a 13 year career banging. So...hmmmm?

Walker behind that monstrous offensive line, defenses having to respect Aikman to Irvin, hmmm? I see no reason at all to think Smith was a better RB than Walker, both averaged 4.2 a carry with Walker averaging over 9 yards a reception to Emmitts just over 6.

Walker had one of the greatest PRO FOOTBALL careers any RB ever had. And, some think he was the best NCAA RB ever,

I only expect two contracts out of RB;s, that rookie then one more then ya move on to younger legs.
 
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RonnieT24

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Walker played until he was 35, so...? Ah, Okoye was a 26 year old rookie and Campbell played until he was 30, Look at what Emmitt did after 30. not much. John Riggins played 14 seasons banging and clanging. Larry Csonka a 12 year career ramming into defenses, Jerome Bettis a 13 year career banging. So...hmmmm?

Come on man.. Emmitt gained over 6000 yards after age 30. Or about 75% of what Herschel did in his entire career. You mischaracterize Bettis as a banger.. He was not.. He was one of the nimblest 250 pound men we've ever seen. Yes he COULD bang.. but he would prefer not to. He was also a backup most of his last three seasons in Pittsburgh.. he started 16 TOTAL games over those three years and 6 in the last two. Riggins spent most of his career as a low volume ball carrier. He only topped 300 carries twice in his career and he never topped 1350 yards. He also took a full season off in the middle of his career over the contract deal. Csonka? Seriously.. That dude only topped TWO HUNDRED carries three times in his career. He doesn't even belong in this conversation. A guy who averaged 13 carries per game over his career as compared to guys who averaged closer to 20? Apples to oranges. The fact that all the guys you listed had shorter careers than Emmitt despite between 1500 to 3000 fewer the carries pretty much makes my point. Yes Csonka carried the ball 3000 fewer times than did Emmitt.. yet played 4 fewer seasons. I would contend that he did NOT "last while bangin."

Walker behind that monstrous offensive line, defenses having to respect Aikman to Irvin, hmmm? I see no reason at all to think Smith was a better RB than Walker, both averaged 4.2 a carry with Walker averaging over 9 yards a reception to Emmitts just over 6.

Walker had one of the greatest PRO FOOTBALL careers any RB ever had. And, some think he was the best NCAA RB ever,

I only expect two contracts out of RB;s, that rookie then one more then ya move on to younger legs.

I agree that Herschel would have done great thangs behind "that monstrous line." But like I said, most of "that monstrous line" was there for Herschel's time in Dallas. The results? 7-9, 7-8, 3-13.. and started 0-5 in 1989.. Herschel averaged 3.0 ypc behind "that monstrous line" in 1989.. Emmitt averaged 3.9 behind much the same line in 1990..

It is no disrespect to Herschel to concede that there were things Emmitt did better.. just as there were things that Herschel did better. As for the assertion that Herschel was the better athlete.. okay fine.. but football is football... not a decathlon. I think Emmitt understood how to run the ball better while I think Herschel relied on his considerable physical gifts to be dominant. Emmitt obviously could not do that.. so he had to play a different game.. His game allowed him to be productive for a very long time despite being mostly ordinary from a physical gifts standpoint.. though I would put his vision, short area quickness, balance and leg drive up against anybody.
 
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RaZon

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Come on man.. Emmitt gained over 6000 yards after age 30. Or about 75% of what Herschel did in his entire career. You mischaracterize Bettis as a banger.. He was not.. He was one of the nimblest 250 pound men we've ever seen. Yes he COULD bang.. but he would prefer not to. He was also a backup most of his last three seasons in Pittsburgh.. he started 16 TOTAL games over those three years and 6 in the last two. Riggins spent most of his career as a low volume ball carrier. He only topped 300 carries twice in his career and he never topped 1350 yards. He also took a full season off in the middle of his career over the contract deal. Csonka? Seriously.. That dude only topped TWO HUNDRED carries three times in his career. He doesn't even belong in this conversation. A guy who averaged 13 carries per game over his career as compared to guys who averaged closer to 20? Apples to oranges. The fact that all the guys you listed had shorter careers than Emmitt despite between 1500 to 3000 fewer the carries pretty much makes my point. Yes Csonka carried the ball 3000 fewer times than did Emmitt.. yet played 4 fewer seasons. I would contend that he did NOT "last while bangin."



I agree that Herschel would have done great thangs behind "that monstrous line." But like I said, most of "that monstrous line" was there for Herschel's time in Dallas. The results? 7-9, 7-8, 3-13.. and started 0-5 in 1989.. Herschel averaged 3.0 ypc behind "that monstrous line" in 1989.. Emmitt averaged 3.9 behind much the same line in 1990..

It is no disrespect to Herschel to concede that there were things Emmitt did better.. just as there were things that Herschel did better. As for the assertion that Herschel was the better athlete.. okay fine.. but football is football... not a decathlon. I think Emmitt understood how to run the ball better while I think Herschel relied on his considerable physical gifts to be dominant. Emmitt obviously could not do that.. so he had to play a different game.. His game allowed him to be productive for a very long time despite being mostly ordinary from a physical gifts standpoint.. though I would put his vision, short area quickness, balance and leg drive up against anybody.

Bettis was without question a banger with some speed.....ah...THE BUS. Google Power Backs and there he is.

Riggins had a 14 season career, he was not nimble, not quick, just some decent speed and power.

Csonka a monster, power personified, like Bettis and Riggins he had a long career as a bully. So not buying....short careers. A Hall of Famer belongs in this conversation.

I was kinda comparing what Emmitt did pre 30 to post, pretty dramatic difference.

Bottom line is Walker didn't start his NFL career at 21 if he would have he;d have at least another 2500 rushing yards, now he is over 10,000 which is HOF stuff. Ah....far more than Floyd Little

Emmitt was a good RB, but he had nothing on Herschel Walker.


https://www.sportscasting.com/top-10-power-nfl-running-backs-of-all-time-2/
 
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RonnieT24

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Bettis was without question a banger with some speed.....ah...THE BUS. Google Power Backs and there he is.

Riggins had a 14 season career, he was not nimble, not quick, just some decent speed and power.

Csonka a monster, power personified, like Bettis and Riggins he had a long career as a bully. So not buying....short careers. A Hall of Famer belongs in this conversation.

I am not saying these guys were not power backs nor that they had short careers.. however Emmitt had more carries in his first 5 years than Csonka had in his 11. Emmitt passed Riggins' total carries by the end of year 8. He passed Bettis by year 9. So these guys were used up on a fraction of the carries Emmitt had. Now why might that be given their superior size? Oh yeah.. banging takes a toll. It's not really a debate.. more collisions = shorter careers. A guy who weighed 30-40 pounds less than them lasted longer than any of them while carrying the ball more than double the number of times in the case of Csonka.

I was kinda comparing what Emmitt did pre 30 to post, pretty dramatic difference.

Bottom line is Walker didn't start his NFL at 21 if he would have he;d have at least another 2500 rushing yards, now he is over 10,000 which is HOF stuff. Ah....far more than Floyd Little

Emmitt was a good RB, but he had nothing on Herschel Walker.


https://www.sportscasting.com/top-10-power-nfl-running-backs-of-all-time-2/


Like most people you seem to want to sell Emmitt short. That's fine.. I am always willing to concede that all the running backs who gained more yards and scored more TDs than he did are better .. :cool: Emmitt made what he did look MUCH easer than it is.. He would get more respect if he had a more herky jerky energetic running style instead of being as smooth and efficient as he was. The other thing about "if Herschel started his career at 21" is that if he had he most likely would been the #1 overall pick in that 1984 draft instead of Irving Fryar. So it would have been him going to the Pats.. A year later he and the Pats would have been going to the Super Bowl to face the Bears.. How does that turn out? The Pats had a nice run of winning football as it was and Herschel certainly would not have hurt that. They most certainly would have built the offense around him and handed him the ball 350 times a year .. But again.. that takes a toll on a guy who doesn't avoid contact. So I could see Herschel averaging 1500 yards a season that first 5-6 years. But as I said, high collision backs and high carries is a bad combination. I can't see how Herschel would have been able to sustain that level of production taking that kind of punishment year in and year out. We saw injuries and workload take its toll on Eric Dickerson, who was a far less physical back than Herschel, around age 30 after 8 straight years of 300+ carries so I don't know how Herschel would have been any different. But you never know.. And because I enjoyed watching him run I would have LOVED it if he had come straight into the NFL and finished his career with 13-14 thousand yards.. because I think when it's all said and done that's what he would have done.

The bottom line is that he and Emmitt are completely different types of backs who got it done in very different ways. Which one you prefer is like picking your favorite flavor of ice cream.. I think you could win championships with either.. you would just have to do it differently.
 

RaZon

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I am not saying these guys were not power backs nor that they had short careers.. however Emmitt had more carries in his first 5 years than Csonka had in his 11. Emmitt passed Riggins' total carries by the end of year 8. He passed Bettis by year 9. So these guys were used up on a fraction of the carries Emmitt had. Now why might that be given their superior size? Oh yeah.. banging takes a toll. It's not really a debate.. more collisions = shorter careers. A guy who weighed 30-40 pounds less than them lasted longer than any of them while carrying the ball more than double the number of times in the case of Csonka.




Like most people you seem to want to sell Emmitt short. That's fine.. I am always willing to concede that all the running backs who gained more yards and scored more TDs than he did are better .. :cool: Emmitt made what he did look MUCH easer than it is.. He would get more respect if he had a more herky jerky energetic running style instead of being as smooth and efficient as he was. The other thing about "if Herschel started his career at 21" is that if he had he most likely would been the #1 overall pick in that 1984 draft instead of Irving Fryar. So it would have been him going to the Pats.. A year later he and the Pats would have been going to the Super Bowl to face the Bears.. How does that turn out? The Pats had a nice run of winning football as it was and Herschel certainly would not have hurt that. They most certainly would have built the offense around him and handed him the ball 350 times a year .. But again.. that takes a toll on a guy who doesn't avoid contact. So I could see Herschel averaging 1500 yards a season that first 5-6 years. But as I said, high collision backs and high carries is a bad combination. I can't see how Herschel would have been able to sustain that level of production taking that kind of punishment year in and year out. We saw injuries and workload take its toll on Eric Dickerson, who was a far less physical back than Herschel, around age 30 after 8 straight years of 300+ carries so I don't know how Herschel would have been any different. But you never know.. And because I enjoyed watching him run I would have LOVED it if he had come straight into the NFL and finished his career with 13-14 thousand yards.. because I think when it's all said and done that's what he would have done.

The bottom line is that he and Emmitt are completely different types of backs who got it done in very different ways. Which one you prefer is like picking your favorite flavor of ice cream.. I think you could win championships with either.. you would just have to do it differently.

Frank Gore. Adrian Peterson and Walter Payton had long careers. they were physical runners. And Riggins/Bettis/Csonka were fullback types, didn't catch many passes.

If you can get 8 good years out of any RB that's good.

Go with different kind of a runner, Emmitt better at finding a hole making ya miss, Walker better once past the line of scrimmage.
 

RonnieT24

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Frank Gore. Adrian Peterson and Walter Payton had long careers. they were physical runners. And Riggins/Bettis/Csonka were fullback types, didn't catch many passes.

If you can get 8 good years out of any RB that's good.

Go with different kind of a runner, Emmitt better at finding a hole making ya miss, Walker better once past the line of scrimmage.

Exactly.. that ability to make people miss in small spaces was what enabled Emmitt to survive 15 years in the NFL despite being one of the smallest guys on the field most days. There is no question that Herschel was far more dangerous once he got into the second level.. there is no substitute for that kind of raw speed and power. His lack of change of direction is what would have worried me. If the hole opened backside and you needed a jumpcut and catlike acceleration to get there I question if he could have gotten there. If you listen to the stories told by the guys who blocked for Emmitt to a man they all say that the thing that made blocking for him easy was that sometimes they could miss and Emmitt would make a subtle adjustment to his route to the hole to make it so the guy would still be sealed off from the play. Or they say many times the play would be designed to go off tackle right but that would be clogged up and Emmitt would see the backside cut and hit it 100 mph.. making it appear that the line blew everybody out of the way when in fact the defense stonewalled them at the point of attack but Emmitt messed with the pursuit and then outran it to the backside. The net result is he'd get 10 yards before anybody touched him even though his blockers basically got whupped. But if you don't know the play and you just watched it you came away thinking "Man the line wiped everybody out and Emmitt just waltzed into the end zone.." When nothing could be further from the truth. But I have long since accepted that Emmitt will never be appreciated by most people. I think he's probably come to grips with it as well.
 

RaZon

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Exactly.. that ability to make people miss in small spaces was what enabled Emmitt to survive 15 years in the NFL despite being one of the smallest guys on the field most days. There is no question that Herschel was far more dangerous once he got into the second level.. there is no substitute for that kind of raw speed and power. His lack of change of direction is what would have worried me. If the hole opened backside and you needed a jumpcut and catlike acceleration to get there I question if he could have gotten there. If you listen to the stories told by the guys who blocked for Emmitt to a man they all say that the thing that made blocking for him easy was that sometimes they could miss and Emmitt would make a subtle adjustment to his route to the hole to make it so the guy would still be sealed off from the play. Or they say many times the play would be designed to go off tackle right but that would be clogged up and Emmitt would see the backside cut and hit it 100 mph.. making it appear that the line blew everybody out of the way when in fact the defense stonewalled them at the point of attack but Emmitt messed with the pursuit and then outran it to the backside. The net result is he'd get 10 yards before anybody touched him even though his blockers basically got whupped. But if you don't know the play and you just watched it you came away thinking "Man the line wiped everybody out and Emmitt just waltzed into the end zone.." When nothing could be further from the truth. But I have long since accepted that Emmitt will never be appreciated by most people. I think he's probably come to grips with it as well.

The thing with the Emmitt Smith situation is so many times we saw him 4/5 yards down the field before he confronted a bad guy. And you'd think he'd have a better than a 4.2 average per carry. Most think any "good" RB could have put up numbers like he did. Hell, Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson, O.J.Simpson, Herschel behind that line,,,,whoa!

Herschel Wallker would have had over 11, 000 rushing yards if he'd played his entire career in the NFL,he'd have over 6000 yards receiving. If Floyd Little is in the Hall of Fame, hey!

Walker was a freak of nature, Emmitt a mere mortal who played on a great team.
 

RonnieT24

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The thing with the Emmitt Smith situation is so many times we saw him 4/5 yards down the field before he confronted a bad guy. And you'd think he'd have a better than a 4.2 average per carry. Most think any "good" RB could have put up numbers like he did. Hell, Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson, O.J.Simpson, Herschel behind that line,,,,whoa!

Herschel Wallker would have had over 11, 000 rushing yards if he'd played his entire career in the NFL,he'd have over 6000 yards receiving. If Floyd Little is in the Hall of Fame, hey!

Walker was a freak of nature, Emmitt a mere mortal who played on a great team.

Again you're selling Emmitt short.. That great team had a losing record when he was out of the lineup or had to leave games early due to injury. But yes.. any of the great ones could have done great things on that team. That really isn't something that needs to be debated. The question is would they have been able to it as long as he did and did they possess his will to win and competitive fire that fueled his teammates and made him the engine of that team. The 4.2 average was really an artifact of two things.. One playing so deep into his 30's long after his top end speed was gone and he could no longer sprinkle in a 40-50 yarder to offset all the tough runs between the tackles. The other factor was that he was the short yardage and goal line back for his teams.. That's tough sledding for a back his size. The fact that I think he scored more touchdowns than Dickerson and Simpson combined made it a fair trade off. I suspect Barry, OJ and ED would trade all those long runs for 50-60 more touchdowns from close range in a heartbeat.. because that would have led to more team success.. more wins.. more playoffs.. all the things you play the game for.
 

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Again you're selling Emmitt short.. That great team had a losing record when he was out of the lineup or had to leave games early due to injury. But yes.. any of the great ones could have done great things on that team. That really isn't something that needs to be debated. The question is would they have been able to it as long as he did and did they possess his will to win and competitive fire that fueled his teammates and made him the engine of that team. The 4.2 average was really an artifact of two things.. One playing so deep into his 30's long after his top end speed was gone and he could no longer sprinkle in a 40-50 yarder to offset all the tough runs between the tackles. The other factor was that he was the short yardage and goal line back for his teams.. That's tough sledding for a back his size. The fact that I think he scored more touchdowns than Dickerson and Simpson combined made it a fair trade off. I suspect Barry, OJ and ED would trade all those long runs for 50-60 more touchdowns from close range in a heartbeat.. because that would have led to more team success.. more wins.. more playoffs.. all the things you play the game for.

Seen them all play many times, Emmitt is one of the elite no doubt about it. But when in with the elite he is in my opinion the least impresssive, And his 4.2 average backs that up. Barry Sanders never had a season where he averaged less than a 4.3.

When talking ...

Jim Brown
Gale Sayers
Walter Payton
Eric Dickerson
Barry Sanders
O.J.Simpson
Emmitt Smith

.....Smith just doesn't compare. But I do put him on that level. Average per carry is a biggie.

The thing vs Walker is pretty much.....what if....that isn't the case vs those above.
 

RonnieT24

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Seen them all play many times, Emmitt is one of the elite no doubt about it. But when in with the elite he is in my opinion the least impresssive, And his 4.2 average backs that up. Barry Sanders never had a season where he averaged less than a 4.3.

When talking ...

Jim Brown
Gale Sayers
Walter Payton
Eric Dickerson
Barry Sanders
O.J.Simpson
Emmitt Smith

.....Smith just doesn't compare. But I do put him on that level. Average per carry is a biggie.

The thing vs Walker is pretty much.....what if....that isn't the case vs those above.

Barry Sanders also never had a season where he was asked to carry the ball much in short yardage and red zone. It's easier to maintain a gaudy average if you are never asked to get the tough yards. Your mistake is comparing physical attributes of the guys. If physical gifts were the end all and be all then 245 pound with 4.3 speed Jamal Lewis would have been the greatest of all time. Or would it have been 240 pound with 4.3 speed Jonathan Stewart? Like I said.. all those guys were probably more physically gifted than Emmitt.. yet he accomplished more than all of them. People spend too much time on the measurables while ignoring a guy's ability to just play the game. That's why there are so many draft busts every year.. You can't measure what's inside a guy.. and IMHO Emmitt had more inside than any of the guys on that list with the possible exception of Sweetness.. who was basically a 205 pound heart muscle. Two of the guys on your list quit the game abruptly and another whined his way to a trade in the middle of his prime... And don't get me started on OJ and his annual "trade me or I'm gonna retire" shenanigans in Buffalo from about 1974 on..
 

RaZon

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Barry Sanders also never had a season where he was asked to carry the ball much in short yardage and red zone. It's easier to maintain a gaudy average if you are never asked to get the tough yards. Your mistake is comparing physical attributes of the guys. If physical gifts were the end all and be all then 245 pound with 4.3 speed Jamal Lewis would have been the greatest of all time. Or would it have been 240 pound with 4.3 speed Jonathan Stewart? Like I said.. all those guys were probably more physically gifted than Emmitt.. yet he accomplished more than all of them. People spend too much time on the measurables while ignoring a guy's ability to just play the game. That's why there are so many draft busts every year.. You can't measure what's inside a guy.. and IMHO Emmitt had more inside than any of the guys on that list with the possible exception of Sweetness.. who was basically a 205 pound heart muscle. Two of the guys on your list quit the game abruptly and another whined his way to a trade in the middle of his prime... And don't get me started on OJ and his annual "trade me or I'm gonna retire" shenanigans in Buffalo from about 1974 on..

First off Lewis ran a 4.58 at the combine, Stewart a 4.48 and neither were gifted runners.

We all get how hard Emmitt played, yep a bonafide warrior but when it came to running a football he wasn't what some others were. Heart is cool, and we all love a guy who gives it all he has but that doesn't mean Tebow can throw a football because of heart.

.Emmitt has all those yards because of his carries, if any of the elite had carried the football that many times they'd have gained more yards because of the superior talent.

Will say this if the bad guys attack no RB I'd rather have in my foxhole than Emmitt Smith.

My last say on this...

Emmitt had a huge offensive line a HOF QB throwing to a HOF WR, so the D couldn't just.....stop Emmitt. That wasn't true with the others on my list, they were the offense, the one that had to be stopped. So defenses zero in on them, hell.....who was the QB of the Browns in the days of Jim Brown? Jim McMahan scared nobody.
 

cowboyec

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personal hero.
love the man.
as a kid back in '86 i started writing him.
and continued to write him until his retirement in '98.
incredibly kind and gracious.
letters,pictures,cards...always kind.
still have everything he sent me.
i'm 100% biased.
my all-time favorite Cowboy.
one of the greatest all-purpose backs in history.
:bow:THANK YOU HERSCHEL:bow:
 
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