Herschel Walker

terra

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Bottom line is nobody has to play college sports, if you make that decision it is all on you.

As we know only a tiny% of college footballers make it to the NFL, most need that degree because they will need a job after football. There are TONS of colleges that ;play football, far more little guys than big dawgs. Even a school like Alabama will only land a small % of the team in the next draft, most will move into other things and that degree will be valuable.

There is no.....he plays football doesn't need an education....going on, the footballers get the same work load everybody else does. Teachers don't care if you play football.

What do those students who don't play sports get, but the footballers need .....huh?

Stay away from football if you are feeling used, and if you decide to sign on then man up and give the school what you signed on for. Kids 21 and 22, can wait a year, they only have another 50ish to go. If I'm a coach I want young men who stand by their word, those that have character, not interested in me me me what about me? The worst thing I have seen is guys bailing on their team to get ready for the NFL,that totally sucks and shows a lack of class and is selfish.

Selfishness is a turn off, you played on a football.....team. Without your teammates there is no pro football in your future, don't ignore that.
wow you are really out to lunch if you think football stars do not get special treatment in college. And especially high school stars certainly get special treatment. As so often happens you are wrong.
 

RaZon

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wow you are really out to lunch if you think football stars do not get special treatment in college. And especially high school stars certainly get special treatment. As so often happens you are wrong.

I'll go with some football "STARS" get special treatment but what % of football players are "STARS"...?

Often wrong?.....where and what be specific.
 

RaZon

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Herschel was a great size/speed combo and the prototype kick off return man.
But in the NFL he lacked that first step quickness to make people miss.

All that mileage on is why he has had so many issues I suspect.
Sounds very much like CTE which is why it is very surprising he's running for office.

Really?

Herschel Walker as a Cowboy



He never beat Carl Lewis, and he was faster than Bo Jackson.
 
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Hoofbite

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I want to be a part of this topic, but I have no idea where the hell it went since my last post.
 

Rockport

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Please do not presume to think for me. It's one of my pet peeves. I played at Harvard.. I know LOTS of college footballers personally who got a quality education. I also had high school teammates who went to Florida, Miami, Tennessee, Florida State, FAMU, Bethune Cookman, Albany State, Morris Brown, Wofford, Memphis State, USC, North Carolina State, North Carolina A&T, East Carolina... well you get the picture. I can tell you first hand not all of them got any education worth a damn. Yes some of them did.. but not all of them. And that is my point.. Not one of them had the option of turning pro at that time. Mind you not all of them were NFL caliber.. But several of them were.. One was a running back who got hurt his junior year at FSU and never recovered. Had the option been there to turn pro before that he would have at least had a shot and that injury would have occurred while he was getting paid. And maybe having access to NFL doctors instead of college guys enables him to make it back completely. Another was a 6'2" 195 shutdown corner at FSU who also led the nation in punt returns and was a projected all American and first round pick but got into some trouble before his senior year and his career never recovered. Had he been able to turn pro he would have been a first round pick. After being suspended for a year by the time he got back on the team some guy named Deion Sanders had taken over his role as the badass cornerback.

To answer your ultimate question though.. "So young kids should do what?" - To me it's simple.. they should be allowed to do what is best for themselves and their families .. Basketball and Football are the only sports that have these "seniority" requirements before a kid can turn pro. Tennis players can turn pro whenever they feel like, as can golfers, gymnasts, swimmers, tracksters, hockey plays, baseball players... all can go make money at any point they feel ready.. But the two sports that pay the bills for the athletic departments at nearly every school in the NCAA.. can't. And let me not gloss over that "pays the bills" phrase. There are no less 40 colleges whose athletic programs that gross over 100 million dollars a year.. https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances. Almost all of that comes from football and basketball. It was not a huge surprise to me that the NCAA got taken to the woodshed over "name image and likeness" this year in the courts. They have been profiting off these kids for a hundred years under the guise of "free education" while neglecting the hell out of these kids in that regard.

I am never one to paint every school or coach with the same brush. I know there are some that do a great job with these young folk. But some of the school have horrid graduation rates in their football and basketball programs.. According to this ESPN article https://www.espn.com/college-footba...ad-rates-slide-gap-widens-black-white-players roughly 73% of footballers at the 56 bowl bound schools graduated in 2019-2020. So would you consider that 27% who didn't graduate "a lot?" I certainly would. It certainly isn't "a few." Doing a little quick math in my head if there are 85 kids on scholarship that's 4030 kids 27% of that is like 850 kids a year falling through the proverbial cracks. Now we know about 10% of those will just be guys turning pro early. But that still leaves almost 800 kids annually simply washing out .. If the numbers are similar for the other 100 or so schools in the NCAA D1 then those numbers really start to become staggering. Maybe 2000 kids a year brought in to make money for the schools.. sent on their merry way with nothing to show for it. And the schools raking in 100 million+ a year off their backs. Many are left with mangled bodies that will never be the same..

Thing is.. I am not advocating dismantling the NCAA as some have suggested. But they need to make some changes.. They have no one to blame but themselves for their current predicament. They have had decades to make adjustments to do better by these kids. And they have chosen not only to not do better but to double down on screwing them. Remember that kid from UConn hoops who told the story of how he was bumming food off classmates for months because the meal plan for his scholarship could not kick in before the basketball season began? He told that story to highlight the ridiculous constraints the NCAA places on athletes. I don't know if they quietly rescinded that rule but a lot of athletes chimed in with similar stories. For decades there were athletic dorms where they were well take care of but some idiotic rule change dismantled them for a time. I assume they have since been brought back because that story went away pretty quickly.
What year did you play at Harvard? One of my best friends son Neil Rose played QB at Harvard in early 2000.
 

RaZon

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When I think of the Ivy League and sports.....

First Cowboy 1000 yard rusher....Calvin Hill Yale
First speedy Raider....Bo Roberson Cornell, the 1960 Olympic long jump silver medalist
Ben Johnson a stud sprinter in the 30's out of Columbia
Gerry Ashworth ran a leg on that 1964 Olympic gold medal 4x1 team, out of Dartmouth
 

jterrell

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Really?

Herschel Walker as a Cowboy



He never beat Carl Lewis, and he was faster than Bo Jackson.

Not sure what point you are trying to make. I said he was a size/speed prototype.
I am very familiar with Walker including his 1000s of push ups and sit ups daily.
And not outrunning his sister until he was in high school because they were all elite track athletes.

Walker wore huge shoulder pads and absorbed contact. In the SEC he was as famous for running people over as he was for outrunning them.

Herschel was shipped off and Emmitt shortly thereafter came in and we saw what it means to make people miss. Short-area quickness and vision allowed Emmitt to avoid the hits Walker collected.
 

RaZon

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Not sure what point you are trying to make. I said he was a size/speed prototype.
I am very familiar with Walker including his 1000s of push ups and sit ups daily.
And not outrunning his sister until he was in high school because they were all elite track athletes.

Walker wore huge shoulder pads and absorbed contact. In the SEC he was as famous for running people over as he was for outrunning them.

Herschel was shipped off and Emmitt shortly thereafter came in and we saw what it means to make people miss. Short-area quickness and vision allowed Emmitt to avoid the hits Walker collected.

Google Walkers first three years as a Cowboy vs what Emmitt put up his first three seasons.
 

terra

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I'll go with some football "STARS" get special treatment but what % of football players are "STARS"...?

Often wrong?.....where and what be specific.
I don't have the weeks to list them all. Just your Wilson threads are sufficient examples.

And clearly you have no knowledge at all as regards the college game if you did not know how often football players got special treatment.
 

RaZon

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I don't have the weeks to list them all. Just your Wilson threads are sufficient examples.

And clearly you have no knowledge at all as regards the college game if you did not know how often football players got special treatment.

So ya can't actually come up with anything. How did I know that?

Wrong about what with Wilson, come on be specific.

There are how many players on a college football team? Most play second to fourth string, and only a tiny tiny% will play pro football. A vey tiny % of college football players get special treatment. I could list 100 college you've never heard of do you really think a football player at....Coe, Tiffin, Humbolt, Maryland Eastern Shore, get special treatment? Offensive linemen and third stringers get special treatment?

I only talk about things I know about so I'd love to see what I was wrong about, let's see that list.
 

jterrell

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Google Walkers first three years as a Cowboy vs what Emmitt put up his first three seasons.
I don't need to google anything. I watched them both in college and the pros.
Walker was considered an all everything stud but he was essentially Derrick Henry.
Emmitt was not imposing physically and lacked top end speed.
But Emmitt had vision and short-area quickness. He hit holes faster and avoided tackles.

Walker came out of Georgia and went USFL. He didn't get to the NFL until age 24.
He only had 2 1000 yard seasons in the NFL and was a major bust compared to his expectation.

Emmitt had over 900 yards as a 21 year rookie then proceeded to have 11 straight 1000 seasons.

Not even Herschel's son would compare him with Emmitt Smith in ability or impact.
 

RaZon

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I don't need to google anything. I watched them both in college and the pros.
Walker was considered an all everything stud but he was essentially Derrick Henry.
Emmitt was not imposing physically and lacked top end speed.
But Emmitt had vision and short-area quickness. He hit holes faster and avoided tackles.

Walker came out of Georgia and went USFL. He didn't get to the NFL until age 24.
He only had 2 1000 yard seasons in the NFL and was a major bust compared to his expectation.

Emmitt had over 900 yards as a 21 year rookie then proceeded to have 11 straight 1000 seasons.

Not even Herschel's son would compare him with Emmitt Smith in ability or impact.

Why not go with what I was talking about, that being those first three seasons as a Cowboy? By his 4th NFL season Walker was now 27 years old and had a lot of wear on the tires.

Comparing his first three NFL seasons to Emmitts Walker was more productive. Nobody is saying he had a better NFL career,

Both had a 4.2 average per carry, Walker more receiving yards and receiving TD's, No reason to think Walker wouldn't have had a similiar career if he'd stayed a Cowboy.
 
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RaZon

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Walker had runs of...

84
60
71
91
84
93
64

Damn!

Now add...89, 93, 94 with kickoffs.

He has more rushing yards than Larry Csonka, Frank Gifford, Paul Hornung, Floyd Little, Terrell Davis, Hugh McElhenny all in the Hall of Fame. We all get the Gale Sayers thing.

When we look at his receiving yards, his kickoff return yards, and his 84 TD's, hmmmm?

Looking at all his numbers from his Georgia, USFL and NFL days who had more yards than Herschel Walker?
 

RaZon

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How is Floyd Little in the Hall of Fame and Herschel Walker isn't?

Floyd with a 3,9 average, ouch! Far less yards than Walker so...?????

Actually if we look at Walkers rushing/receiving/KO returns yards, he has more yards than most those in the HOF.

And, it is the pro football Hall of Fame not the NFL so his USFL numbers should count. Just like Otto and Motley and those AAFC numbers.

Lance Alworth in the HOF because of his AFL numbers.

Floyd Little doesn't belong in the HOF.
 
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terra

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How is Floyd Little in the Hall of Fame and Herschel Walker isn't?

Floyd with a 3,9 average, ouch! Far less yards than Walker so...?????

Actually if we look at Walkers rushing/receiving/KO returns yards, he has more yards than most those in the HOF.

And, it is the pro football Hall of Fame not the NFL so his USFL numbers should count. Just like Otto and Motley and those AAFC numbers.

Lance Alworth in the HOF because of his AFL numbers.

Floyd Little doesn't belong in the HOF.
just like the CFL should not count, neither should the USFL count. Neither one of them rate it. For all this talk about it being the PRO FOOTBALL HOF claiming other leagues should be counted is GARBAGE.

I do agree Flloyd Little should not be in. Just like Warren Moon. Neither one of them was EVER considered in a debate about being the best in the NFL at thier position. Both belong in the hall of the Very Good. NOT THE HOF.
 

RaZon

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just like the CFL should not count, neither should the USFL count. Neither one of them rate it. For all this talk about it being the PRO FOOTBALL HOF claiming other leagues should be counted is GARBAGE.

I do agree Flloyd Little should not be in. Just like Warren Moon. Neither one of them was EVER considered in a debate about being the best in the NFL at thier position. Both belong in the hall of the Very Good. NOT THE HOF.

Well then change the name to the NFL Hall of Fame, this is The PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame, I get the CFL not being there because it is a different game but when it comes to the old AAFC, AFL, USFL they need respect. The USFL had better players than the AFL had.

Warren Moon is 14th all time TD passes, he is 12th when it comes to yards, he is a Hall of Famer no doubt about it. A nine time pro bowler.

Well ya got one thing right, Little is no HOFer.

The Hall of Fame never about the best at their position, hell look at those HOF RB's in the days of Jim Brown.
 

terra

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Well then change the name to the NFL Hall of Fame, this is The PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame, I get the CFL not being there because it is a different game but when it comes to the old AAFC, AFL, USFL they need respect. The USFL had better players than the AFL had.

Warren Moon is 14th all time TD passes, he is 12th when it comes to yards, he is a Hall of Famer no doubt about it. A nine time pro bowler.

Well ya got one thing right, Little is no HOFer.

The Hall of Fame never about the best at their position, hell look at those HOF RB's in the days of Jim Brown.
And gee whiz you missed it as usual. As regards the USFL vs AFL you really show your ignorance of football history there
 

RaZon

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And gee whiz you missed it as usual. As regards the USFL vs AFL you really show your ignorance of football history there

Didn't miss anything and you obviously never saw the AFL in the early days. Dude, stop trying to talk about things you know nothing about.

So who were those QB's for...

Houston Oilers
Boston Patriots
New York Titans
Buffalo Bills
LA Chargers
Oakland Raiders
Denver Broncos
Dallas Texans

You obviously don't know about.....

Now the USFL is getting some recognition from the Pro Football Hall of Fame, with an exhibit slated to open later this summer that will show off the USFL’s championship trophy, along with other memorabilia from the league, which played three seasons from 1983 to 1985.

By the way who was the first "star" of the old AFL?
 
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csirl

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Bottom line is nobody has to play college sports, if you make that decision it is all on you.

As we know only a tiny% of college footballers make it to the NFL, most need that degree because they will need a job after football. There are TONS of colleges that ;play football, far more little guys than big dawgs. Even a school like Alabama will only land a small % of the team in the next draft, most will move into other things and that degree will be valuable.

There is no.....he plays football doesn't need an education....going on, the footballers get the same work load everybody else does. Teachers don't care if you play football.

What do those students who don't play sports get, but the footballers need .....huh?

Stay away from football if you are feeling used, and if you decide to sign on then man up and give the school what you signed on for. Kids 21 and 22, can wait a year, they only have another 50ish to go. If I'm a coach I want young men who stand by their word, those that have character, not interested in me me me what about me? The worst thing I have seen is guys bailing on their team to get ready for the NFL,that totally sucks and shows a lack of class and is selfish.

Selfishness is a turn off, you played on a football.....team. Without your teammates there is no pro football in your future, don't ignore that.

Yes, nobody is forced to play college football.........BUT being realistic, a promising young player has to go through this route to make the NFL. How many players who skipped college have ever made NFL rosters?

The difference with football is that in many other pro sports, athletes can get to the pros without the NCAA e.g. in baseball there is both the minor league and NCAA option - people can chose. The NFL wont even allow teams to sign players from high school.

I'd love to see a minor league funded by the NFL where players get paid. Doesnt mean they dont get an education - they may even get a better one if outside the NCAA football regime. (Thinking about two people I know who played semi pro sport (not football) to fund their education at a leading university).
 

RaZon

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Yes, nobody is forced to play college football.........BUT being realistic, a promising young player has to go through this route to make the NFL. How many players who skipped college have ever made NFL rosters?

The difference with football is that in many other pro sports, athletes can get to the pros without the NCAA e.g. in baseball there is both the minor league and NCAA option - people can chose. The NFL wont even allow teams to sign players from high school.

I'd love to see a minor league funded by the NFL where players get paid. Doesnt mean they dont get an education - they may even get a better one if outside the NCAA football regime. (Thinking about two people I know who played semi pro sport (not football) to fund their education at a leading university).

We all have rules just like we do here, can't do that, better not do that, we spent our lifetime dealing with these rules. Yep, the NCAA has it's rules and it should be no big deal. If ya want the job ya abide by those rules like we all do/did at work. I had to wear a tie, I had to be clean shaven, I had to meet for breakfast hungry or not, all part of the job. You wanna play college football you do what you are allowed, just that simple. If you don't want to deal with the NCAA then don't, there are other things to do besides football.

All this....these players are being used,,,,is total BS, no they aren't, none of them were kidnapped, they came to Alabama, USC, LSU, all on their own. The school will give them the platform t display their skills. So both are making out. And this deal about $$$$$$, do regular students get paid, ah....nope, so why should football players?

I'm cool with how things are right now, only thing I;d change is if a player signs on for 4 years he must honor that commitment, the NFL can't touch him until that commitment is honored.

Way back when Carlton "Cookie" Gilchrist went straight from HS to the CFL, then the Buffalo Bills.
 
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