Herschel Walker

[darthseinfeld]

those numbers are ONLY his NFL totals...rushing,receiving and kick returns.

if you add his usfl totals...
that number rises into the 20s.

the 18,168 are ALL from his NFL years.
he's 12th in NFL history on the career combined yds list.

KO yards? Come on now. What does that have to do with being a top tier back?

 

[cowboyec]

KO yards? Come on now. What does that have to do with being a top tier back?

it has everything to do with my point that Herscel was one of the best players of his era.
#2...it points to his value as a all-purpose back.
he was more than just a power back.
he was a great receiver and a solid returner.
he was better than you're giving him credit for.
18,168 offers no apologies....13,084 w/out the returns...he was better than you're giving him credit for.

 

[darthseinfeld]

it has everything to do with my point that Herscel was one of the best players of his era.
#2...it points to his value as a all-purpose back.
he was more than just a power back.
he was a great receiver and a solid returner.
he was better than you're giving him credit for.
18,168 offers no apologies....13,084 w/out the returns...he was better than you're giving him credit for.

He probably was. But he also wasnt as good as you are giving him credit for either

 

[RaZon]

it has everything to do with my point that Herscel was one of the best players of his era.
#2...it points to his value as a all-purpose back.
he was more than just a power back.
he was a great receiver and a solid returner.
he was better than you're giving him credit for.
18,168 offers no apologies....13,084 w/out the returns...he was better than you're giving him credit for.

You got it my friend, Walker was a great RB, and if he'd started out in the NFL he is a Hall of Famer.

For Emmitt to average just 4.2 behind that line, hmmmm?

 

[RonnieT24]

You got it my friend, Walker was a great RB, and if he'd started out in the NFL he is a Hall of Famer.

For Emmitt to average just 4.2 behind that line, hmmmm?

Except Emmitt averaged over 4.5 behind THAT line. However except for Larry Allen THAT line had all retired or gotten REALLY old by 1998. THAT line also included a long list of guys..

Stepnoski, Ker, Gesek, Gogan, Newton, Tuinei, Williams, Donaldson, Allen, Kennard, Shiver, Hegamin, Davis, Adams, McIver, Page, Garmon, Gurode, Tucker, Walter..

People throw "the line" out there like the same 5 all pros lined up in front of Emmitt for 15 years. The Cowboys rolled through a long list of different starting lineups blocking for Emmitt over the years.. the names in front of him changed .. The dominant guys got old and went away.. Erik Williams was never close to the same player after the accident. No matter what the lineup in front of him Emmitt just kept churning out 1000 yard seasons. At some point we may just want to acknowledge the guy was special.

Just sayin..

 

[LACowboysFan1]

You got it my friend, Walker was a great RB, and if he'd started out in the NFL he is a Hall of Famer.

For Emmitt to average just 4.2 behind that line, hmmmm?

From 1992 through 1995 he averaged 4.65 yards a carry, which are the years he had "that line" as you call it. Other years the line wasn't that good, like in 1990 when the team wasn't good at all.

 

[RonnieT24]

From 1992 through 1995 he averaged 4.65 yards a carry, which are the years he had "that line" as you call it. Other years the line wasn't that good, like in 1990 when the team wasn't good at all.

Hell even in those years "that line" was changing every year. People also forget that before Emmitt showed up the number of pro bowls made by the linemen who blocked for him (and Herschel before him) was a combined ZERO! As in.. none, zilch nada.. Nate, Gogan and Tooey were all there with Herschel..

Gesek and Gogan left after '93. Stepnoski left after the '94 season, which of course was the year Williams had the infamous car accident that trashed his knee. Guys came and went in front of Emmitt every year but he just kept on keepin on. The whole "but the line was great" is an oft repeated canard used to discredit him.

 

[RaZon]

Hell even in those years "that line" was changing every year. People also forget that before Emmitt showed up the number of pro bowls made by the linemen who blocked for him (and Herschel before him) was a combined ZERO! As in.. none, zilch nada.. Nate, Gogan and Tooey were all there with Herschel..

Gesek and Gogan left after '93. Stepnoski left after the '94 season, which of course was the year Williams had the infamous car accident that trashed his knee. Guys came and went in front of Emmitt every year but he just kept on keepin on. The whole "but the line was great" is an oft repeated canard used to discredit him.

Walker averaged 4.9, 4,3, 4,2 and made two pro bowls, had more yards combined than Emmitt those first three seasons,

Walker plays 10 seasons with the Cowboys he has better numbers than Emmitt.

Walker averaged over 9 yards a reception, Emmitt over 6,

 

[RonnieT24]

Walker averaged 4.9, 4,3, 4,2 and made two pro bowls, had more yards combined than Emmitt those first three seasons,

Walker plays 10 seasons with the Cowboys he has better numbers than Emmitt.

Walker averaged over 9 yards a reception, Emmitt over 6,

Really? You conveniently ignore the downward trend in his yards per carry.. AND conspicuously omit his 3.0 in those first few games in 1989. Seems like to me Herschel wasn't meshing with what Jimmy was trying to do in Dallas as well as Emmitt did. If he stayed in Dallas and averaged 3 yards per carry for all of 1989 Jimmy probably would have released him outright so there was no possibility of his spending 6 more years in Dallas. His production didn't warrant it. Notice I didn't say his talent.. I said his production, which was significantly below what Emmitt was able to do.. We can play the what if game until the cows come home but reality says for all of Herschel's greatness the Cowboys were 7-9, 7-8-1, 3-13 and 0-5 and were never any higher than 16th in the league in rushing with him totin the rock. A combined record of 17-35-1. Meanwhile after being 23rd his rookie season the Cowboys were 13th, 5th, 2nd and first in rushing in Emmitt's first 5 seasons while going 7-9, 11-5, 13-3, 12-0 (all 4 losses were games he missed or had to leave early), 12-4.. a combined record of 55-21. Now we both know that in neither case was one guy solely responsible for the team record.. I only point it out to illustrate why I don't believe it would have been possible for Herschel to remain in Dallas. The team was trending in the wrong direction as was his own production. And of course the trade of Herschel helped to BUILD that team ..

 

[RaZon]

Really? You conveniently ignore the downward trend in his yards per carry.. AND conspicuously omit his 3.0 in those first few games in 1989. Seems like to me Herschel wasn't meshing with what Jimmy was trying to do in Dallas as well as Emmitt did. If he stayed in Dallas and averaged 3 yards per carry for all of 1989 Jimmy probably would have released him outright so there was no possibility of his spending 6 more years in Dallas. His production didn't warrant it. Notice I didn't say his talent.. I said his production, which was significantly below what Emmitt was able to do.. We can play the what if game until the cows come home but reality says for all of Herschel's greatness the Cowboys were 7-9, 7-8-1, 3-13 and 0-5 and were never any higher than 16th in the league in rushing with him totin the rock. A combined record of 17-35-1. Meanwhile after being 23rd his rookie season the Cowboys were 13th, 5th, 2nd and first in rushing in Emmitt's first 5 seasons while going 7-9, 11-5, 13-3, 12-0 (all 4 losses were games he missed or had to leave early), 12-4.. a combined record of 55-21. Now we both know that in neither case was one guy solely responsible for the team record.. I only point it out to illustrate why I don't believe it would have been possible for Herschel to remain in Dallas. The team was trending in the wrong direction as was his own production. And of course the trade of Herschel helped to BUILD that team ..

Emmitt averaged

3.9
4.3
4.6

his first three Cowboy seasons

Walker

4.9
4,3
4,2

And he did a lot more in the passing game.

There is no reasoning at all to think if Walker had started his career as a Cowboy and 21 he wouldn't have had the same if not better numbers than Emmitt He was far more capable of the big run, which he proved by having far more big runs. DB's are running Emmitt down, no so vs Walker.

Walker was a Heisman winner, he was a fantastic USFLer, and has 10 all purpose yards NFL seasons.

Walker had 21 receiving TD's, Emmitt 11, Walker over 9 yards a reception, Emmitt 6.

Think it's that.....agree to disagree time.

 

[RonnieT24]

Emmitt averaged

3.9
4.3
4.6

his first three Cowboy seasons

Walker

4.9
4,3
4,2

And he did a lot more in the passing game.

There is no reasoning at all to think if Walker had started his career as a Cowboy and 21 he wouldn't have had the same if not better numbers than Emmitt He was far more capable of the big run, which he proved by having far more big runs. DB's are running Emmitt down, no so vs Walker.

Walker was a Heisman winner, he was a fantastic USFLer, and has 10 all purpose yards NFL seasons.

Walker had 21 receiving TD's, Emmitt 11, Walker over 9 yards a reception, Emmitt 6.

Think it's that.....agree to disagree time.

Why stop at year three? Why leave out year 4 when Emmitt averaged 5.3 while Herschel averaged 3.7 in his 4th year? Again.. one guy trending down while the other trended up. Herschel's best season would rank no higher than 4th for Emmittt. Emmitt also didn't need to do as much in the passing game because he scored nearly THREE TIMES AS MANY RUSHING TDs as Herschel. Yes Herschel was a greater big play threat.. However as folks in Detroit will tell you, having a guy deliver big plays 3-4 times a game sprinkled in between a lotta nothin doesn't lead to a lot of wins. At least not as many wins as having a guy reliably convert first downs and move the chains does..

 

[RaZon]

Why stop at year three? Why leave out year 4 when Emmitt averaged 5.3 while Herschel averaged 3.7 in his 4th year? Again.. one guy trending down while the other trended up. Herschel's best season would rank no higher than 4th for Emmittt. Emmitt also didn't need to do as much in the passing game because he scored nearly THREE TIMES AS MANY RUSHING TDs as Herschel. Yes Herschel was a greater big play threat.. However as folks in Detroit will tell you, having a guy deliver big plays 3-4 times a game sprinkled in between a lotta nothin doesn't lead to a lot of wins. At least not as many wins as having a guy reliably convert first downs and move the chains does..

And everybody will tell you......put Barry behind that line Emmitt had......and Smith on the Lions.and Barry is the all time leading rusher. Please don't tell me Emmitt was better than Barry Sanders.

Walker had six 400 yards or more receiving seasons, Smith....one. Walker was a better athlete, far more explosive. While at Dallas he had pro bowl seasons.

There is no doubt if Walker had carried the ball over 4000 times like Emmitt did that he would have gained just as many if not more yards, he was simply a better runner. That is why his receiving yards were far better despite a few fewer receptions.

Seen them both play many many times, there is nothing Emmitt could do Walker couldn't, but there were things Walker could do Emmitt couldn't.,

Emmitt Smith can't do this...

Herschel Walker

 

[LACowboysFan1]

And everybody will tell you......put Barry behind that line Emmitt had......and Smith on the Lions.and Barry is the all time leading rusher. Please don't tell me Emmitt was better than Barry Sanders.

Walker had six 400 yards or more receiving seasons, Smith....one. Walker was a better athlete, far more explosive. While at Dallas he had pro bowl seasons.

There is no doubt if Walker had carried the ball over 4000 times like Emmitt did that he would have gained just as many if not more yards, he was simply a better runner. That is why his receiving yards were far better despite a few fewer receptions.

Seen them both play many many times, there is nothing Emmitt could do Walker couldn't, but there were things Walker could do Emmitt couldn't.,

Emmitt Smith can't do this...

Herschel Walker

Walker had world class sprinter speed, therefore he could run away from more potential tacklers than Emmitt. That's most of the reason for the better yac numbers. But overall Emmitt was the better runner. You have to figure in durability, toughness leadership etc. as well.

It's not about pure numbers...

 

[RaZon]

Walker had world class sprinter speed, therefore he could run away from more potential tacklers than Emmitt. That's most of the reason for the better yac numbers. But overall Emmitt was the better runner. You have to figure in durability, toughness leadership etc. as well.

It's not about pure numbers...

Carl Lewis ran a 9.86, Darrell Green a 10,08 PR, Walker was a 10,23 guy, yep, fast for a big guy but not "world class" . He took 7th in the NCAA 100m.

Walker retired at 35, so,,,durabilty? All those Georgia carries, all those USFL carries. All those KO returns.

Walker caught less passes than Smith but gained far more yards so who is the better runner? Emmitt returning KO's?

What it is is Emmitt played on a great team with a great offensive line, When Walker was a Cowboy he was a pro bowler also,

I;ve seen Walker do things Emmitt simply couldn't do,

Disagree about Smith being the better runner. Walker averaged over 9 yards a reception, Smith 6.

Give Walker over 4000 carries most behind that Cowboys line and he's gaining just as many yards probably more.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Carl Lewis ran a 9.86, Darrell Green a 10,08 PR, Walker was a 10,23 guy, yep, fast for a big guy but not "world class" . He took 7th in the NCAA 100m.

Walker retired at 35, so,,,durabilty? All those Georgia carries, all those USFL carries. All those KO returns.

Walker caught less passes than Smith but gained far more yards so who is the better runner? Emmitt returning KO's?

What it is is Emmitt played on a great team with a great offensive line, When Walker was a Cowboy he was a pro bowler also,

I;ve seen Walker do things Emmitt simply couldn't do,

Disagree about Smith being the better runner. Walker averaged over 9 yards a reception, Smith 6.

Give Walker over 4000 carries most behind that Cowboys line and he's gaining just as many yards probably more.

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't share it. But thanks for the discussion...

 

[RaZon]

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't share it. But thanks for the discussion...

What gets lost is I like Emmitt and think he was great, he was just more limited than Walker. Walker could go the distance at any time that wasn't Emmitt. Hell; Emmitt ain't returning kickoffs for a reason.

Emmitt is the leading rusher only because of all those carries, all the great backs are gaining just as many yards with over 4000 carries, BUT....at third and short or goal line I'll take Emmitt over all of them, he had heart and ran tough, and he was a leader. Marcus Allen was like that.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Carl Lewis ran a 9.86, Darrell Green a 10,08 PR, Walker was a 10,23 guy, yep, fast for a big guy but not "world class" . He took 7th in the NCAA 100m.

If he'd lost some weight he'd been faster, Herschel was always a football player first and foremost. Darrell Green was as well but at 5-9 he would be better at sprints, most world class 100m guys aren't tall, that's what made Usain Bolt so special, tall and fast...

 

[RaZon]

If he'd lost some weight he'd been faster, Herschel was always a football player first and foremost. Darrell Green was as well but at 5-9 he would be better at sprints, most world class 100m guys aren't tall, that's what made Usain Bolt so special, tall and fast...

I agree about Walker, and the same with Bo Jackson, both knew football was their thing with track just something to do. If they had been just track guys and did get down to 210ish , hmmmm?

Been a few tall 100m cats like Carl Lewis, Reggie Jones, Perrin Walker, Francis Obikwelu, Mark Withespoon all 6-3 and taller, but the vast majority 6-0 and under.

His 100 start was so bad it was comical, but once he got going,,,,wow! Once ran down an Olympic 100m gold medalist to be (Jim Hines) on a 4x1 anchor.



Grew up about 60 miles west of where I;m sitting, Lemoore. World ranked in the 100, 200 and 400, a WR holder at 200 and 400.

 

[RaZon]

Speaking of tall sprinters, he just won the Diamond League final, all 6-3 of him.



X 400m man, so he has that speed endurance as we saw.

 

[atlantacowboy]

My all-time favorite player. He's a good person and a great athlete with an unrivaled work ethic. If he hadn't signed with the New Jersey Generals out of college, he would have been a first ballot HOFer in the NFL. Cowboy fans should love him b/c his trade paved the way for the Jimmy Johnson super bowl teams.