Herschel Walker

cowboyec

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wish Herschel had been able to stay in Dallas his whole career.
wish he had Coach Landry longer...he knew how best to use him.
5,199 all-purpose yds and 29TDs from '86-'88.
 

darthseinfeld

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probably.
but i do think Landry's triplets of Troy...Herschel...Michael would've won 1...2 maybe.
just a fun what-if.
Hershel Walker wasn't close to Emmitt's level though. He had two 1000 yard seasons in his NFL career. Thats not getting it down as far as championship football in the 90's. Especially without Johnson, his staff ( an underrated element of those teams) and the windfull we got from Walker. I dont see that team winning more than 10, 11 games. And definitely not beating SF
 

cowboyec

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Hershel Walker wasn't close to Emmitt's level though. He had two 1000 yard seasons in his NFL career. Thats not getting it down as far as championship football in the 90's. Especially without Johnson, his staff ( an underrated element of those teams) and the windfull we got from Walker. I dont see that team winning more than 10, 11 games. And definitely not beating SF
in fairness tho....minnesota only gave him the ball...on avg...about 14 carries a game.
thats no where near what he avg in Dallas.
in his 2nd and 3rd yr in philly...he split carries with charlie garner.
and i dont know why new york signed him...they never used him.
let him avg 20-24 carries a game and his 1,000yd sessons rise.
of all his coaches...only Coach Landry really knew how best to use him.
minnesota was clueless.
besides...the coaching staff didnt want him there...and the way they chose not to use him proved it.
 

darthseinfeld

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in fairness tho....minnesota only gave him the ball...on avg...about 14 carries a game.
thats no where near what he avg in Dallas.
in his 2nd and 3rd yr in philly...he split carries with charlie garner.
and i dont know why new york signed him...they never used him.
let him avg 20-24 carries a game and his 1,000yd sessons rise.
of all his coaches...only Coach Landry really knew how best to use him.
minnesota was clueless.
besides...the coaching staff didnt want him there...and the way they chose not to use him proved it.
He only averages 4.2 yards a carry in Minnesota. He just wasnt the pro back people thought he was. He only had 1 really big year in the NFL. And even then, it took 360 carries. He was a better athlete than he was an NFL HB
 

cowboyec

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He only averages 4.2 yards a carry in Minnesota. He just wasnt the pro back people thought he was. He only had 1 really big year in the NFL. And even then, it took 360 carries. He was a better athlete than he was an NFL HB
4.2 isn't chump change.
but why trade for a guy to then reduce his carries to just 14 a game?
thats dumb.
when he was given the chance to run it...he did.
considering how minnesota,philly and new york wasted his talent...he still had a helluva career.
 

Whyjerry

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If we look at his Georgia, USFL, NFL yards both rushing/receiving and kickoff returns he gained over 30, 000 yards, that has gotta be some kind of record.

He was and still is the best example of that size with speed combo we have seen, he was a legit 10.23 sprinter and held his own vs NCAA competition.

Now he is running for some office, not sure what to think about that.

By the way....

FINALLY.....another speedster Cliff Branch up for the Hall of Fame. That would give the Raiders...

Ken Stabler
Fred Biletnikoff
Dave Casper
Cliff Branch............who has superior numbers to HOFers Bob Hayes and Lynnn Swann.


One of the greatest college football players of all time. The tractor tire and push-up stories are legendary.
 

darthseinfeld

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4.2 isn't chump change.
but why trade for a guy to then reduce his carries to just 14 a game?
thats dumb.
when he was given the chance to run it...he did.
considering how minnesota,philly and new york wasted his talent...he still had a helluva career.
4.2 isnt elite either.

Minnesota probably found out that on a competitive team, Walker wasnt the guy they expected. Walker was a great athlete, but as a runner he didnt have great balance and vision. It didnt hurt him as much in college or the USFL, but he wasn't a top echelon HB in the NFL because it takes more than being just a great athete
 

cowboyec

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4.2 isnt elite either.

Minnesota probably found out that on a competitive team, Walker wasnt the guy they expected. Walker was a great athlete, but as a runner he didnt have great balance and vision. It didnt hurt him as much in college or the USFL, but he wasn't a top echelon HB in the NFL because it takes more than being just a great athete
in 1990...he avg 11.5 carries a game.
in 1991...he avg 13.
sorry.
that isn't using your franchise back enough.
the story is...jerry burns DID NOT want to trade for Herschel.
the coaches were against the front office.
they simply didnt use him properly.
Coach Landry said the same thing in his book.
i agree.
Philly did his first year there and they won.
in his 2nd and 3rd yr there...they reduced his role and weren't very good.
new york never used him at all.
Dallas was the only team that had a clue what to do with him.
he was highly regarded his 1st 3yrs in the league as a top back.
thats why minnesota traded for him.
they wouldn't have if he was untalented.
his career numbers speak for themselves.
helluva player that simply was wasted in minnesota by a coaching staff that was in a pissing contest with the GM.
screw'm.
screw'm all.
:starspin:COWBOYS:starspin:
 

darthseinfeld

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in 1990...he avg 11.5 carries a game.
in 1991...he avg 13.
sorry.
that isn't using your franchise back enough.
the story is...jerry burns DID NOT want to trade for Herschel.
the coaches were against the front office.
they simply didnt use him properly.
Coach Landry said the same thing in his book.
i agree.
Philly did his first year there and they won.
in his 2nd and 3rd yr there...they reduced his role and weren't very good.
new york never used him at all.
Dallas was the only team that had a clue what to do with him.
he was highly regarded his 1st 3yrs in the league as a top back.
thats why minnesota traded for him.
they wouldn't have if he was untalented.
his career numbers speak for themselves.
helluva player that simply was wasted in minnesota by a coaching staff that was in a pissing contest with the GM.
screw'm.
screw'm all.
:starspin:COWBOYS:starspin:
Doesnt matter if they wasted him. Someone in that organization overvalued him. He had a productive season in Dallas, but it also didnt scream franchise back either. He was a significantly inferior back to guys like Smith, Thomas, Sanders, Waters, the thoughrobread backs of that time. We wouldn't have won the Super Bowls we did keeping him on the roster.

Him and Mike Rozier were the Reggie Bush's of that era. Great athletes who could dominate the college game, but because of weaknesses in their game, they were destined to play a couple tiers below their reputation. Doesnt mean they werent very good players. All three were. None were great
 

cowboyec

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Doesnt matter if they wasted him. Someone in that organization overvalued him. He had a productive season in Dallas, but it also didnt scream franchise back either. He was a significantly inferior back to guys like Smith, Thomas, Sanders, Waters, the thoughrobread backs of that time. We wouldn't have won the Super Bowls we did keeping him on the roster.

Him and Mike Rozier were the Reggie Bush's of that era. Great athletes who could dominate the college game, but because of weaknesses in their game, they were destined to play a couple tiers below their reputation. Doesnt mean they werent very good players. All three were. None were great
no he wasn't.
he was the only pro bowler in Dallas.
he had 3 great seasons under coach Landry and was considered the best back in the league by many.
you use his only 2 1,000yd seasons against him but continue to ignore the context.
no running back in the modern era ran for a 1,000yds avg 11 carries a game.
almost all of them avg 18-25 a game.
minnesota wasted his talent.
if they didnt want him...they should not have traded for him.
you and me will NEVER agree on this.
Herschel was a talented back stuck with a clueless coaching staff.
remember...coach jerry burns famously said in his ideal offense...a franchise back only avg 6-12 carries a game.
that just simply isnt a recipe for a 1,000yd season or a strong running game.
Herschel NEVER should've have agreed to the minnesota trade.
he should have agreed to the cleveland trade instead...who knew how to use a running back.
but i will NEVER agree with anyone trying to say he didn't have talent.
he did.
or minnesota never trades for him.
like i said up the chain...this is a "what if."
not a debate.
 

darthseinfeld

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no he wasn't.
he was the only pro bowler in Dallas.
he had 3 great seasons under coach Landry and was considered the best back in the league by many.
you use his only 2 1,000yd seasons against him but continue to ignore the context.
no running back in the modern era ran for a 1,000yds avg 11 carries a game.
almost all of them avg 18-25 a game.
minnesota wasted his talent.
if they didnt want him...they should not have traded for him.
you and me will NEVER agree on this.
Herschel was a talented back stuck with a clueless coaching staff.
remember...coach jerry burns famously said in his ideal offense...a franchise back only avg 6-12 carries a game.
that just simply isnt a recipe for a 1,000yd season or a strong running game.
Herschel NEVER should've have agreed to the minnesota trade.
he should have agreed to the cleveland trade instead...who knew how to use a running back.
but i will NEVER agree with anyone trying to say he didn't have talent.
he did.
or minnesota never trades for him.
like i said up the chain...this is a "what if."
not a debate.
I never said he didnt have talent. I just said he wasnt that great an NFL player. He wasnt. He was a pretty good NFL player. He wasnt in a class and guys like Smith, Thomas, Sanders, and Waters. All of whom where legit franchise. Walker had too many holes in his game to be a franchise back.

The "what if" I just dont see as rational
 

cowboyec

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I never said he didnt have talent. I just said he wasnt that great an NFL player. He wasnt. He was a pretty good NFL player. He wasnt in a class and guys like Smith, Thomas, Sanders, and Waters. All of whom where legit franchise. Walker had too many holes in his game to be a franchise back.

The "what if" I just dont see as rational
i would never say he was a better back than Emmitt...Thurman...or Barry.
in my opinion...rick watters doesnt belong in their category either...and i take Herschel over ricky all day.
but im biased.
in my biased opinion...Herschel was a great back that was under used for most of his career.
jerry burns simply didnt know how to use running backs effectively or develop a running game.
teams knew how to beat the vikings.
double team anthony carter...everyone else just keyed on 34.
wade wilson wasnt a very good qb...and would turn it over alot.
rich gannon should've been the starter.
and Herschel....not anthony carter and hassan jones...should've been the focus of the offense.
but jerry burns believed in a pass heavy style offense...with the running game as a option every now and then.
its why they never won anything under jerry burns and aside from darrin nelson...never had a 1,000yd rusher.
Herschel's o-linemen tho...randall mcdaniel and kirk loudermilk...loved Herschel as a teammate.
most felt he wasnt used properly.
 

darthseinfeld

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i would never say he was a better back than Emmitt...Thurman...or Barry.
in my opinion...rick watters doesnt belong in their category either...and i take Herschel over ricky all day.
but im biased.
in my biased opinion...Herschel was a great back that was under used for most of his career.
jerry burns simply didnt know how to use running backs effectively or develop a running game.
teams knew how to beat the vikings.
double team anthony carter...everyone else just keyed on 34.
wade wilson wasnt a very good qb...and would turn it over alot.
rich gannon should've been the starter.
and Herschel....not anthony carter and hassan jones...should've been the focus of the offense.
but jerry burns believed in a pass heavy style offense...with the running game as a option every now and then.
its why they never won anything under jerry burns and aside from darrin nelson...never had a 1,000yd rusher.
Herschel's o-linemen tho...randall mcdaniel and kirk loudermilk...loved Herschel as a teammate.
most felt he wasnt used properly.
I wouldn't take Hershel over Waters. Waters isnt in the class of Smith, Thomas, or Sanders, but he had a much better pro career than Walker. Over 10,000 yards rushing. 7 1000 yard seasons and almost 500 catches. He was head and shoulders over Walker as an NFL back
 

cowboyec

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I wouldn't take Hershel over Waters. Waters isnt in the class of Smith, Thomas, or Sanders, but he had a much better pro career than Walker. Over 10,000 yards rushing. 7 1000 yard seasons and almost 500 catches. He was head and shoulders over Walker as an NFL back
no he wasn't.
Herschel was a better back.
better blocker.
better receiver.
watters was one of the most over-rated backs during that time.
Herschel 12th all-time with 18,168 career combined yds speaks for itself and owes no apology.
 
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cowboyec

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I wouldn't take Hershel over Waters. Waters isnt in the class of Smith, Thomas, or Sanders, but he had a much better pro career than Walker. Over 10,000 yards rushing. 7 1000 yard seasons and almost 500 catches. He was head and shoulders over Walker as an NFL back
5x he finished a season under 4.0 a carry....that only happened 3x with Herschel.
thats not great or elite.
his 3yrs in philly as "the" guy...2x he finished under 4yds a carry...4.0 being the best...thats not great or elite.
was never a fan of "running" watters.
 

darthseinfeld

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no he wasn't.
Herschel was a better back.
better blocker.
better receiver.
watters was one of the most over-rated backs during that time.
Herschel 12th all-time with 18,168 career combined yds speaks for itself and owes no apology.
Combined NFL yards? USFL is SEC level competition, so its really not far to tak that on to his totals
 

cowboyec

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Combined NFL yards? USFL is SEC level competition, so its really not far to tak that on to his totals
those numbers are ONLY his NFL totals...rushing,receiving and kick returns.

if you add his usfl totals...
that number rises into the 20s.

the 18,168 are ALL from his NFL years.
he's 12th in NFL history on the career combined yds list.
 
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