Twitter: He's having a historically great career

[jrumann59]

If not for a bogus 6 games suspension, he would at least be only behind E. Smith. Saying that, last year was a bad year for him. I get that the OL had issues which really makes it hard on any RB but fumbling was not the OL fault. He has to own that. That has to improve or he has to get gone, regardless of any other stats.

Personally feel he was trying to do too much. Call it pressing, feeling pressure or whatever. He was not trying to play within himself and made costly mental mistakes you see it all the time in football, baseball, hockey, etc. Instead of just playing you are thinking and that is when the mistakes happen.

 

[Jstopper]

yah he looks it....

Why does Pollard have more long runs than Zeke since he has been here. AND ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE as you put it.


Pollard is better at all of these:

-Bouncing the run outside
-Speed
-Quickness
-Breaking tackles
-Vision
-Receiving
-Big play ability
-Scoring TD's

Only thing I can think of that Zeke is probably better is durability. Maybe blocking? However Pollard has developed into a good blocking back.

how out of touch with reality do you have to be to say that Pollard has better vision, and breaking tackles ability than zeke? You really lose all football credibility when it comes to discussing Zeke. Pollard is faster than zeke, that’s about it.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

A premium position is one you want to take high because they are the most valuable. LOL

What are you talking about? You said you wouldnt use a high pick on the CB position. What am I missing?

A wide receiver is a premium position to that doesn't mean I'd draft one with the 4th overall pick...why would I do that when I can get one later in the draft? You're not making any sense.....but since you don't want to list your top 10 I'll do it for you.


Ramsey, Alexander, White, Howard, Humprhey, Bradberry, Lattimore, Ward, Gilmore, Moore

In no particular order....these are regarded as good CB's in this league.....

Ramsey (Top 5 pick)
Alexander (18th overall pick)
White (27th overall pick)
Howard (2nd round pick)
Humphrey(16th overall pick)
Gilmore(10th overall pick)
Bradberry(2nd round pick)
Lattimore(11th overall pick)
Ward(4th overall pick)
Moore(undrafted)
Jones (late 1st rounder)

3 out of these guys were top 10 picks with 2 being top 5 picks.

Let's dig deeper into some of these picks......

Denzel Ward is having a solid career....but would I rather have Alexander who came out the same year as Ward did with the 18th overall pick or would I rather have Ward with the 4th overall pick? Alexander for sure. Yet, another draft where the highest corner taken wasn't the best one.

Let's look some more.....

Let's take a look at some of these guys up here who were picked later in the draft who weren't the 1st cornerbacks taken.....

Marlon Humphrey was the 2nd cornerback off the board in his draft.....Lattimore was as well. Humphrey is a better cornerback but either pick would've been fine. Both outside of the top 10.

Let's look at some of these corners taken in the 2015 draft.

Do you have any idea who Kevin Johnson and Trae Waynes are? They were the first 2 cornerbacks taken in the 2015 NFL draft.....who right after them? Marcus Peters and Byron Jones. Hmmmm......


Not gonna talk your head off here but you know we can't have a cornerback discussion without mentioning the great Jaylon Ramsey and the 2016 draft.

The draft that resulted in us going 13-3 but that gets lost in the discussion. Its always about what we "should've did" because....well because had we taken Ramsey all of our issues would've been resolved....Yeah....ok lol.


But let's speak on the great on himself taken with the 4th overall pick. Let's talk about all we've missed out on. Shut down corner who doesn't shut anyone down really but that's the moniker he has so let's go with it. Regarded as if not the best corner in the league one of them. Sure, he has a little sass and diva in him but the guy can play. Not taken that away from him. But was it more criminal passing him up for Zeke? Or was it more criminal to pass up Deforest Buckner or Ronnie Staley? But let's not just stop there......there's a few cornerbacks taken in this draft who are also considered some of the better corners in this league and some who aren't.

Eli Apple was taken right behind Ramsey. Top 10 pick.....ouch.
That Xavien Howard guy......he was the 38th overall pick in the draft.
James Bradberry Jr? 62nd overall pick in the draft.

So if I had the chance to re-do that draft......I don't take Zeke or Ramsey....I go get Ronnie Staley or Deforest Buckner with my 1st round pick.......and with my 2nd rounder give me Xavien Howard.


So closing....the point here is that yes, CB is a premium position. Its also worth noting you can get a guy at that position later on in the 1st round and it doesn't take a 4th overall pick to get one.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

how out of touch with reality do you have to be to say that Pollard has better vision, and breaking tackles ability than zeke? You really lose all football credibility when it comes to discussing Zeke. Pollard is faster than zeke, that’s about it.

If you let him tell it he's never wrong. I Just find it odd his stance on Zeke. For a lot of these people its personal. You can see it in the posts.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

This plus fans forget Zeke and his agent beat Stephen at his own game. Remember how we used the hell out of Murray ( over 430+ touches ) his contract year then lowballed him and made 100 excuses. Well Zeke agent didn't forget and if you recall at the time, Stephen knew he wanted a new deal but with another year and the tag, he thought he had time. LOL....Zeke threw the ultimate curveball by holding out. Pretty saying no way in hell you'll do to me what you did to Murray.

Yep.......tried to get over on him like they did Demarco.....failed the 2nd go around.

 

[the_h0wey]

He deserves more credit around here that is given. And this is with all the "struggles" everyone claims he's having......




ELITE COMPANY

What have you done for me lately

 

[RonnieT24]

how out of touch with reality do you have to be to say that Pollard has better vision, and breaking tackles ability than zeke? You really lose all football credibility when it comes to discussing Zeke. Pollard is faster than zeke, that’s about it.

Some people are so blinded by their Zeke hate that they are incapable of dealing with anything of a factual nature.

Let's take an objective look at some of these claims

Pollard is a better receiver.. Hmmm..
In the last two seasons Zeke has caught 106 of 142 targets for a catch percentage of 74.6 with 12 drops (8.4%)
In that same time Pollard has caught 43 of 60 targets.. for a catch percentage of 71.666 with 5 drops (8.3%)

Drop rate is about the same but Zeke's completion percentage and passer rating is higher.. If you consider his entire career the gap is even greater as Zeke's catch percentage is 76.7 for his career and the passer rating is in the 90's to the 80's for Pollard.

Pollard is better at breaking tackles.. Hmmm this one might actually be true.

In the last two seasons Zeke has been credited with 39 broken tackles on 545 rushes (1 per 13.9 attempts) and 9 broken tackles on 106 receptions (1 per 11.777)
In the last two season Pollard has been credited with 18 broken tackles on 187 rushes ( 1 per 10.4 att) and 5 broken tackles on 43 receptions (1 per 8.6 att)

This one would seem to bear out however it's not an apt comparison since we are comparing Pollard to the two worst seasons Zeke has had. If Zeke returns to his pre-Kellen Moore form it probably goes back to being in his favor. These numbers also ignore the fact that a much higher percentage of Zeke's carries come up the gut while Pollard is sent outside more, giving him far better opportunities to break tackles. But I'm fine to concede Pollard is better in space.. However you can't build your offense around a back who can't get you the dirty yards that move the chains. Zeke's first down percentage on runs since coming into the league is a stellar 26.6% to 23.5% for Pollard.

Vision - I don't know about this.. Pollard gets tackled in the backfield more .. does he not see the tacklers coming at him? Yes he bounces it outside more which gives him chances at big plays but also contributes to his being TFL'd more often. This also ignores the fact that just because Zeke doesn't try to juke a guy doesn't mean he didn't see him.. Zeke simply is more confident in his ability to run through tackles. He also understands the value of the 3 yard run on 3rd and 2 and is less apt to try and bounce outside trying to hit a home run when all that is needed is a nice yard run.

Quickness - I agree Pollard is quicker.. but because he lacks Zeke's lower body power he has to be. He is trapped in the backfield at a much higher rate than Zeke is. I found a site (football outsiders) that captured these numbers in the past but it appears to have gone to pay for access now and I aint payin.

Speed - This one is a little tricky because Zeke in top form is probably faster on the top end but because he knows he's going to have to do more heavy lifting as the game wears on we rarely get to see him open it up. Instead of looking for big plays he looks to pound on the defense "for later." He had also bulked up some over the past two seasons which probably slowed him down. It will be interesting to see if that speed we saw early in his career comes back after this offseason. If it does people are going to look silly calling for Pollard to replace him.

Big Play Ability - This one is another inapt comparison given their respective roles. Zeke has been used to hammer the defense and soften it up while Pollard is typically brought in to exploit that softened up defense with fresh legs. Lest we forget in his lone start last year Pollard averaged about 40 inches per carry until his last 2 carries.. against.. you guessed it.. a tired defense. In years past those opportunities to eat against the worn down defense would have gone to Zeke.. now they go to Pollard which IMHO inflates his "big play" opportunities while detracting from Zeke's. As long as it benefits the team it should be fine however if Zeke had a game where he was held to one yard per carry until a couple late runs padded his stats nobody would be crowing about it. Why folks are so eager to give Pollard that pass is beyond me. Well, not really.. I understand what they are doing.. I just don't understand why, other than they just hate Zeke and said hate has removed any ability to be objective.

I like the tandem we have and other than I'd like to see Zeke run outside more.. The two of them are as good as any pair in the league except maybe Chubb/Hunt.. Not seeing a huge need screw around with it.

 

[CowboyRoy]

No dog in this but drafting Zeke was 100% about extending Romo's career.

Any way you slice it, it was the wrong choice. On several levels. They didnt need a RB, they needed defense.

 

[CowboyRoy]

how out of touch with reality do you have to be to say that Pollard has better vision, and breaking tackles ability than zeke? You really lose all football credibility when it comes to discussing Zeke. Pollard is faster than zeke, that’s about it.

Yawn...............it gets really old smacking you Zeke apologists around the board.

Pro Football Focus thinks Pollard is the Cowboys’ most underrated player, noting that "Pollard is tied with Derrick Henry for the best yards after contact average in the league (4.0) and tied with Nick Chubb for the best broken tackle rate (0.25).”

The numbers are not debatable. But PFF's other position here, as it regards Zeke vs. Pollard, is: “The Dallas Cowboys are in a tough spot. By handing Ezekiel Elliott the contract they did, it is very difficult for them to reduce his role to the level it should be based on how Pollard has performed when given the opportunity.''

I think I even read somewhere that Zeke averaged 1 broken tackle per game last year.

Speed, Quickness, vision, breaking tackles, bouncing outside, receiving, moves, Pollard is all better than Zeke.

Those are just the facts. The numbers and facts bear that out. FACTS are stubborn things.

 

[CowboyRoy]

A wide receiver is a premium position to that doesn't mean I'd draft one with the 4th overall pick...why would I do that when I can get one later in the draft? You're not making any sense.....but since you don't want to list your top 10 I'll do it for you.


Ramsey, Alexander, White, Howard, Humprhey, Bradberry, Lattimore, Ward, Gilmore, Moore

In no particular order....these are regarded as good CB's in this league.....

Ramsey (Top 5 pick)
Alexander (18th overall pick)
White (27th overall pick)
Howard (2nd round pick)
Humphrey(16th overall pick)
Gilmore(10th overall pick)
Bradberry(2nd round pick)
Lattimore(11th overall pick)
Ward(4th overall pick)
Moore(undrafted)
Jones (late 1st rounder)

3 out of these guys were top 10 picks with 2 being top 5 picks.

Let's dig deeper into some of these picks......

Denzel Ward is having a solid career....but would I rather have Alexander who came out the same year as Ward did with the 18th overall pick or would I rather have Ward with the 4th overall pick? Alexander for sure. Yet, another draft where the highest corner taken wasn't the best one.

Let's look some more.....

Let's take a look at some of these guys up here who were picked later in the draft who weren't the 1st cornerbacks taken.....

Marlon Humphrey was the 2nd cornerback off the board in his draft.....Lattimore was as well. Humphrey is a better cornerback but either pick would've been fine. Both outside of the top 10.

Let's look at some of these corners taken in the 2015 draft.

Do you have any idea who Kevin Johnson and Trae Waynes are? They were the first 2 cornerbacks taken in the 2015 NFL draft.....who right after them? Marcus Peters and Byron Jones. Hmmmm......


Not gonna talk your head off here but you know we can't have a cornerback discussion without mentioning the great Jaylon Ramsey and the 2016 draft.

The draft that resulted in us going 13-3 but that gets lost in the discussion. Its always about what we "should've did" because....well because had we taken Ramsey all of our issues would've been resolved....Yeah....ok lol.


But let's speak on the great on himself taken with the 4th overall pick. Let's talk about all we've missed out on. Shut down corner who doesn't shut anyone down really but that's the moniker he has so let's go with it. Regarded as if not the best corner in the league one of them. Sure, he has a little sass and diva in him but the guy can play. Not taken that away from him. But was it more criminal passing him up for Zeke? Or was it more criminal to pass up Deforest Buckner or Ronnie Staley? But let's not just stop there......there's a few cornerbacks taken in this draft who are also considered some of the better corners in this league and some who aren't.

Eli Apple was taken right behind Ramsey. Top 10 pick.....ouch.
That Xavien Howard guy......he was the 38th overall pick in the draft.
James Bradberry Jr? 62nd overall pick in the draft.

So if I had the chance to re-do that draft......I don't take Zeke or Ramsey....I go get Ronnie Staley or Deforest Buckner with my 1st round pick.......and with my 2nd rounder give me Xavien Howard.


So closing....the point here is that yes, CB is a premium position. Its also worth noting you can get a guy at that position later on in the 1st round and it doesn't take a 4th overall pick to get one.

DT or DE would have been great too. Definitely not a RB. But no, you take Ramsey the best CB in the NFL.

 

[TequilaCowboy]

The topic of the thread as i understand it was Zeke having a "historically great career" so far and listed him with some all time greats and Hall of Famers. Not is he good enough to be the starter or even be great for this offense. Yes his new contract was Jerry driven and desperation for some reason. So he will not get those stats in the second half of his career, he will be less productive in terms of yardage and TD's. At 26 he is at the pinnacle of his career already for an NFL RB. They have the shortest careers of any position in the NFL, and his running style is not speed or elusiveness. He will get over 10K yards in his career, but that in itself does not get you into the Hall. ROH, ? He may not even be in Dallas in two years.

 

[Jstopper]

Yawn...............it gets really old smacking you Zeke apologists around the board.

Pro Football Focus thinks Pollard is the Cowboys’ most underrated player, noting that "Pollard is tied with Derrick Henry for the best yards after contact average in the league (4.0) and tied with Nick Chubb for the best broken tackle rate (0.25).”

The numbers are not debatable. But PFF's other position here, as it regards Zeke vs. Pollard, is: “The Dallas Cowboys are in a tough spot. By handing Ezekiel Elliott the contract they did, it is very difficult for them to reduce his role to the level it should be based on how Pollard has performed when given the opportunity.''

I think I even read somewhere that Zeke averaged 1 broken tackle per game last year.

Speed, Quickness, vision, breaking tackles, bouncing outside, receiving, moves, Pollard is all better than Zeke.

Those are just the facts. The numbers and facts bear that out. FACTS are stubborn things.

It’s hilarious how you use PFF when it agrees with you, but when PFF praises zeke and goes against your narrative you want to use the good old “eye test” lol

 

[CowboyRoy]

It’s hilarious how you use PFF when it agrees with you, but when PFF praises zeke and goes against your narrative you want to use the good old “eye test” lol

I have no idea what you are talking about. Show me whatever you want with PFF. You just dont like the truth. There are several articles like this. You can see it when they both run the ball who the more skilled runner is. Its not even close to be honest. Maybe a dedicated Zeke can show us something. Pollard had more 20 yards runs in one season last year than zeke did the last 4 years or something ridiculous like that. TD percentage, YPC, they are all better than Zeke. Why do you care? Pollard plays for the Cowboys. LOL

I will never understand the internal bias of certain player over another. Just play the best guys. Its as simple as that.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

DT or DE would have been great too. Definitely not a RB. But no, you take Ramsey the best CB in the NFL.

So you would’ve taken Jeff Okudah last year with the 3rd overall pick?

 

[RonnieT24]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Show me whatever you want with PFF. You just dont like the truth. There are several articles like this. You can see it when they both run the ball who the more skilled runner is. Its not even close to be honest. Maybe a dedicated Zeke can show us something. Pollard had more 20 yards runs in one season last year than zeke did the last 4 years or something ridiculous like that. TD percentage, YPC, they are all better than Zeke. Why do you care? Pollard plays for the Cowboys. LOL

I will never understand the internal bias of certain player over another. Just play the best guys. Its as simple as that.

Why post a blatant falsehood when trying to fashion a good argument? Zeke has 37 20+ yard runs in his career.. Pollard has 8. Pollard has 8 career TDs on 230 touches for 3.47%. Elliott has 56 TDs on 1654 touches for 3.38%.. Basically a dead heat. Zeke's career average per reception is 8.1 .. Pollard's is 7.0. Apparently that other dude aint the only one who don't like the truth. The ability to match or exceed Pollard's level of production percentage-wise over a much greater sample size speaks well of Zeke as a player. A lot of guys can shine for a hot minute.. It takes a little more to shine for a career.. I have no ill will toward Tony Pollard as I think he excels in his role as the changeup back. I not seen anything to make me believe he has the goods to be the starter.. and the only reason people even bring it up is they dislike Zeke. Pollard has gotten at least 8 carries in a game 11 times in his career... He has been held under 3 ypc in 4 of those games and under 4 ypc in 7 of them. Question: What starter quality back is under 3 ypc in over a third of his games and under 4 ypc in over 3/4 of them? Answer: none.

 

[USArmyVet]

Why post a blatant falsehood when trying to fashion a good argument? Zeke has 37 20+ yard runs in his career.. Pollard has 8. Pollard has 8 career TDs on 230 touches for 3.47%. Elliott has 56 TDs on 1654 touches for 3.38%.. Basically a dead heat. Zeke's career average per reception is 8.1 .. Pollard's is 7.0. Apparently that other dude aint the only one who don't like the truth. The ability to match or exceed Pollard's level of production percentage-wise over a much greater sample size speaks well of Zeke as a player. A lot of guys can shine for a hot minute.. It takes a little more to shine for a career.. I have no ill will toward Tony Pollard as I think he excels in his role as the changeup back. I not seen anything to make me believe he has the goods to be the starter.. and the only reason people even bring it up is they dislike Zeke. Pollard has gotten at least 8 carries in a game 11 times in his career... He has been held under 3 ypc in 4 of those games and under 4 ypc in 7 of them. Question: What starter quality back is under 3 ypc in over a third of his games and under 4 ypc in over 3/4 of them? Answer: none.

True but Zeke also has 14 fumbles the last 3 years compared to 1 by Pollard in his 2 years.

 

[RonnieT24]

True but Zeke also has 14 fumbles the last 3 years compared to 1 by Pollard in his 2 years.

Come on dude.. be better than that.. Zeke has 14 fumbles but only lost 8 which is pretty strong given the number of touches he has.. what is it like 1400 touches .. 8 fumbles.. And ?6 of those came last year? 5 in the first half of the season? I'm more than willing to call that a Covid anomaly and call it a day. Though we can certainly revisit if he suffers a similar fumbling spell this year. There should also be a stat to track the number of times a return man puts his team in a whole by bringing he ball out of the end zone and getting tackled inside the 20 yard line. I wonder where Pollard would rank in that statistic?

 

[nightrain]

He deserves more credit around here that is given. And this is with all the "struggles" everyone claims he's having......




ELITE COMPANY

I think he is going to have a very productive year in 2021 and bring the offense back to dominance. A stout running attack will be critical to make a run.

He is not worth what they paid him, but that's not his fault. Go Zeke!

 

[nightrain]

Come on dude.. be better than that.. Zeke has 14 fumbles but only lost 8 which is pretty strong given the number of touches he has.. what is it like 1400 touches .. 8 fumbles.. And ?6 of those came last year? 5 in the first half of the season? I'm more than willing to call that a Covid anomaly and call it a day. Though we can certainly revisit if he suffers a similar fumbling spell this year. There should also be a stat to track the number of times a return man puts his team in a whole by bringing he ball out of the end zone and getting tackled inside the 20 yard line. I wonder where Pollard would rank in that statistic?

Pollard is one of the worst returners I have ever seen. They can't trot him out there this year, can they?

 

[Jarv]

I think covid slowed Zeke down last year, hoping for a breakout year this season.