Hey Nors--Some Ty Law news!

[Hostile]

You bring up a very good point. And I'll add one thing to the mix too. The contract may be in the Commanders' favor and they probably have a strong legal leg to stand on. But the reality is that these two parties have to live and work together, and if the Skins really did make promises to LeVar that the contract doesn't reflect, then some compromise will have to be reached to avoid seriously bad blood.

I have contracts with all of my clients, and if I wanted to, I could sneak some seriously underhanded stuff into them, knowing that 90% of them don't read the whole thing. They trust what I tell them. So when it came right down to it, I could fall back on "Well, it's in your contract." But since you have to work together and co-exist, you don't do something like that, regardless of whether or not you can get away with it.

In the end, only LeVar and the Skins know for sure what was promised (unless there's some other documentation yet unrevealed). Someone is lying here, and if it's the Skins, then they'll either need to make a consession or part ways with LeVar.

All true. It still doesn't mean they did their job well. No matter how underhanded the Skins may be in this, it does not matter. They failed to protect their client or give due diligence to his interests.

 

[Alexander]

All true. It still doesn't mean they did their job well. No matter how underhanded the Skins may be in this, it does not matter. They failed to protect their client or give due diligence to his interests.

You need to really quit hating and take off the blinders.

 

[Charles]

All true. It still doesn't mean they did their job well. No matter how underhanded the Skins may be in this, it does not matter. They failed to protect their client or give due diligence to his interests.

It also doesn't mean they are inept or buffoons or target thug mentality crowd.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle but the main stream media have gone out of their way to cast a bad light on the Postons.

History always repeats itself, those who buck the status quo always get their dirty laundry displayed in public. I think you've been around sports in general to know that.

Scott Boras, Leigh Steinbergh etc have been dogged in the media because they demand outrageous contracts for their clients. The Postons are the new whipping dog.

What goes around comes around.

It the same underlying factors money and greed.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

It also doesn't mean they are inept or buffoons or target thug mentality crowd.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle but the main stream media have gone out of their way to cast a bad light on the Postons.

History always repeats itself, those who buck the status quo always get their dirty laundry displayed in public. I think you've been around sports in general to know that.

Scott Boras, Leigh Steinbergh etc have been dogged in the media because they demand outrageous contracts for their clients. The Postons are the new whipping dog.

What goes around comes around.

It the same underlying factors money and greed.

You are right, Charles.

If they weren't doing something right, no one would be talking about them.

I for one went over the top in this thread with the 'inepts'. My apologies.

This one needs to be put to rest, imo.

 

[Charles]

You are right, Charles.

If they weren't doing something right, no one would be talking about them.

I for one went over the top in this thread with the 'inepts'. My apologies.

This one needs to be put to rest, imo.

I enjoy a good debate or conversion more than being right. Just ask Hos.......

No one is ever completely right. I think I got a little pissed at Alexander, but it's all good. One or two touchy posts don't make a poster a bad person. I probably went over board too. I live in the DC area. LaVar and thug should never be mentioned in the same sentence. He's a Joe Paterno disciple. He pours himself into the community. He might not be the smartest OLB but he's a great citizen.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

LaVar and thug should never be mentioned in the same sentence. He's a Joe Paterno disciple. He pours himself into the community. He might not be the smartest OLB but he's a great citizen.

Gee and there I was thinking that if Snyder has to ante up that 6.5 mil, and can't get it under the cap, the solution is to establish a 6.5 million dollar Lavar Arrington Bail Fund.








Just kidding!

 

[Charles]

Gee and there I was thinking that if Snyder has to ante up that 6.5 mil, and can't get it under the cap, the solution is to establish a 6.5 million dollar Lavar Arrington Bail Fund.








Just kidding!

I am looking forward to Jason Witten's demands. If Drew Bledsoe has flash back........Witten will put up unbelievable numbers.

I wonder what posters will think if Witten ask for WR type money SB in the $11-15 Million dollar range. Todd Heap got $11 Million and Witten has already surpassed Heaps best season stat wise.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

I am looking forward to Jason Witten's demands. If Drew Bledsoe has flash back........Witten will put up unbelievable numbers.

I wonder what posters will think if Witten ask for WR type money SB in the $11-15 Million dollar range. Todd Heap got $11 Million and Witten has already surpassed Heaps best season stat wise.

I dunno, but I will larf my arse off if at contract time he cans his agent (Sexton, isn't it?) and hires the Postons. :bang2:

 

[junk]

Kellen Winslow was sweeter than 3 players picked before him. The Postons gave up some Normal Playing incentives to sweeten the deal. it called business. Winslow agreed to the contract. It's not the Postons fault Winslow broke his leg or crashed his bike.

The Postons are bucking the status quo. The challenging the NFL medevial salary structure.

I am not surprised by the opinions on this issue.

Clarett got it

The basketball player in the 80's got it.

Leigh Steinbergh got it in late 80's and early 90's.

:

The Postons are getting flak because they take an overly abrasive approach to negotiating and have made some dubious mistakes with clients. Arrington, Winslow, Gold, Julian Peterson and Pace off the top of my head that they have made mistakes with. They aren't immune to my criticism no matter what you want to think.

They cost Winslow a lot of money. Those inflated numbers they "got" their client mean nothing since he won't see that money. Its like getting a back loaded contract, no good if you can't ever get there.

Its an agent's job to read a contract. Its an agents job to get their player the best deal. Its an agents job to inform their client what they agreed to (not riding motorcycles)

What did Clarett "get"? The guy was lucky to avoid jail time and lost out on two years of schooling to be a third round pick two years after he wanted to join the NFL. Passed up a free ride education. Thats really a guy I hold to a high standard.

 

[Charles]

The Postons are getting flak because they take an overly abrasive approach to negotiating

I totally agree plus the demand market value for their clients
So did Scott Boras and Leigh Steinbergh in the past. Liegh Steinbergh isn't nicknamed Bird of prey because he's cojial and followed the status quo.

The Postons are the new whipping dogs. It's a lofty status.

and have made some dubious mistakes with clients. Arrington, Winslow, Gold, Julian Peterson and Pace off the top of my head that they have made mistakes with. They aren't immune to my criticism no matter what you want to think.

So. Does that prove that the other agents sh$t don't stink.

Arrington's mess is yet to be determined.

Julian Peterson took a one year deal and got injured. Tough luck. The agents give advice, they don't make the ultimate decision. The player does.

Pace made franchise tag money 2 years in a row and went in another direction. I don't understand how the Postons messed him up. He could have fired them when they couldn't reach a long term agreement the 1st year. He took the contract 2 years in a row. It was his his decision not the Postons.

Ian Gold tore up his knee. He was scared teams would negotiate with the Postons so he fired them. How did the Postons mess that situation up.

Peterson blew his achilles while playing on one year contract. It was his decision to accept the offer because the 49ers could n't met his demands. Remember the Postons give advice, the player is the ultimate decision maker.

They cost Winslow a lot of money. Those inflated numbers they "got" their client mean nothing since he won't see that money. Its like getting a back loaded contract, no good if you can't ever get there.


Its an agent's job to read a contract. Its an agents job to get their player the best deal. Its an agents job to inform their client what they agreed to (not riding motorcycles)

Yeah you know so much about what the agent should do. Kellen Winslow JR has Kellen Winslow SR in his advice group. I doubt "junk" opinion carries much weight when compared to that of the Winslow family.

At the time Winslow got a great contract, the Postons can't control injuries and stupidity.

What did Clarett "get"? The guy was lucky to avoid jail time and lost out on two years of schooling to be a third round pick two years after he wanted to join the NFL. Passed up a free ride education. Thats really a guy I hold to a high standard.

either way you look at it. Clarett won the initial battle. He was 1st day pick ona team that produce 1500 rb.


Move on dude. You get the last word.

 

[junk]

I totally agree plus the demand market value for their clients
So did Scott Boras and Leigh Steinbergh in the past. Liegh Steinbergh isn't nicknamed Bird of prey because he's cojial and followed the status quo.

The Postons are the new whipping dogs. It's a lofty status.

I don't know how being bad at your job is lofty status.

So. Does that prove that the other agents sh$t don't stink.

Where did I bring up other agents? I said I don't think the Postons are very good at what they do.

Arrington's mess is yet to be determined.

And could have been avoided if the agents had done their job and read the contract. Maybe that was too much work for a percentage of a multimillion dollar contract.

Julian Peterson took a one year deal and got injured. Tough luck. The agents give advice, they don't make the ultimate decision. The player does.

Fair enough, although I would say the advice they gave him hasn't proved to be very wise.

Pace made franchise tag money 2 years in a row and went in another direction. I don't understand how the Postons messed him up. He could have fired them when they couldn't reach a long term agreement the 1st year. He took the contract 2 years in a row. It was his his decision not the Postons.

And he ditched the Postons and got a long term deal once he figured out the ridiculous demands they were asking for.

Ian Gold tore up his knee. He was scared teams would negotiate with the Postons so he fired them. How did the Postons mess that situation up.

They overinflated his value and turned down a lucrative deal. He was hurt and hasn't gotten those kind of dollars since. See a trend here?

Peterson blew his achilles while playing on one year contract. It was his decision to accept the offer because the 49ers could n't met his demands. Remember the Postons give advice, the player is the ultimate decision maker.

Maybe the player should make better decisions about his agent.

Yeah you know so much about what the agent should do. Kellen Winslow JR has Kellen Winslow SR in his advice group. I doubt "junk" opinion carries much weight when compared to that of the Winslow family.

Yes, Kellen Winslow Sr has struck me as someone who's opinion I would value.

Sr and the Postons definitely have KWII on the right track for a long and prosperous career.

Clever use of my username in your reply though. No one has ever done that before.

At the time Winslow got a great contract, the Postons can't control injuries and stupidity.

They could advise him on not riding a motorcycle. They could have made those incentives rollover. Both huge mistakes on their part.

either way you look at it. Clarett won the initial battle. He was 1st day pick ona team that produce 1500 rb.

Whats "ona team that produce 1500 rb" mean? Do they make a lot of RBs?

I'll assume you meant 1500 yard RBs. Well, time will tell if he achieves that, but right now he is buried on the depth chart.

What did he ever win? The chance to be unemployed for two years while missing out on free college education. Great, we should all applaud him. I guess he won the initial battle in the fact that he lied to police and avoided jail time.

Move on dude. You get the last word.

Does it really matter since it would be a "junk" opinion?

 

[Hostile]

You need to really quit hating and take off the blinders.

I can't they serve an added purpose of keeping my head out of a dark place.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I can't they serve an added purpose of keeping my head out of a dark place.

That type of talk is not needed here mister......PERV!


That's for LTN and WoodysGirl to show that I am an equal gender proclaimer of perversity.

 

[Hostile]

It also doesn't mean they are inept or buffoons or target thug mentality crowd.

The truth always lies somewhere in the middle but the main stream media have gone out of their way to cast a bad light on the Postons.

History always repeats itself, those who buck the status quo always get their dirty laundry displayed in public. I think you've been around sports in general to know that.

Scott Boras, Leigh Steinbergh etc have been dogged in the media because they demand outrageous contracts for their clients. The Postons are the new whipping dog.

What goes around comes around.

It the same underlying factors money and greed.

Who did I call a thug? When did I call them bafoons?

The evil media again huh? Destroying lives. Damn that Freedom of the Press stuff. It has ruined everything.

If you look real close you will see where I have stated that their approach hurts their clients and I will stand by that. When the Cowboys are a closed door to your clients it is bad. Parcells flat out said he does not want to deal with them. His exact words were not so tame.

I also think they hurt Arrignton in this case. Either they lied to him about a bonus or they failed to ensure it was there when they had their client sign the contract. Either way no matter how underhanded the Skins may have been, they directly hurt their client.

It is called due diligence and they did not give it.

 

[Alexander]

Who did I call a thug? When did I call them bafoons?

That would be me. I alluded to Arrington being a thug and not all that bright. I may not know him on a personal level like Charles appears to, but from what comes out of his mouth and the way he acts on the field, he does not strike me as a classy individual. That is my definition of "thug". Not the literal which suggests nefarious and criminal activities. I will choose my words better next time to avoid offending anyone.

And once again, apologies to you Sir Charles.

 

[Hostile]

That would be me. I alluded to Arrington being a thug and not all that bright. I may not know him on a personal level like Charles appears to, but from what comes out of his mouth and the way he acts on the field, he does not strike me as a classy individual. That is my definition of "thug". Not the literal which suggests nefarious and criminal activities. I will choose my words better next time to avoid offending anyone.

And once again, apologies to you Sir Charles.

Oh. Not sure why he needed to scold me for that then. I guess I wear yet another label.

 

[Nors]

Law is still in Chiefs' picture

Ambrose, however, remains favorite

By ELIZABETH MERRILL

The Kansas City Star


As week two of the Chiefs’ search for a cornerback began Monday, Ashley Ambrose emerged as the realistic favorite, and Ty Law kept his spot somewhere high on the speed dial.

Coach Dick Vermeil said Monday night that the Chiefs are “very interested” in Ambrose, a 13-year veteran who worked out in Kansas City late last week. The holdup, at least in part, is Law, the Pro Bowl corner who visited the Chiefs in March and is still on the market.

The Chiefs want Law if he will sign for a dramatically reduced price. But Law, who just began making cuts on his surgically repaired foot, reportedly wants big money.

“The thought is to play the whole scenario out,” Vermeil said, “and the scenario does include a final evaluation of Ty Law in terms of what is actually going to happen from a financial standpoint.

“First off, can he pass the physical? And then we have to find out how much money he’s going to be offered on the open market. If he’s going to be offered big money, then we’re automatically out of it.”

While Law was rehabbing his foot this spring, the Chiefs signed cornerback Patrick Surtain, safety Sammy Knight, linebacker Kendrell Bell and defensive end Carlos Hall. The defense appeared to be complete, but then Julian Battle tore his Achilles’ heel during minicamp June 18.

Battle was running with the first team because starter Eric Warfield may miss at least part of the season due to an NFL suspension.

So the Chiefs brought in four free-agent cornerbacks last week who are nearing the twilight of their careers, and Ambrose, 34, was the most impressive. He started six games last year for the Saints and was a Pro Bowler with the Bengals in 1996. After watching film on Ambrose, a 5-foot-11, 195-pound Louisiana native, Vermeil said it’s obvious he can still play.

Ambrose’s agent, Kennard McGuire, said three teams have shown “a tremendous amount of interest,” but Ambrose is patient and wants to find the right fit.

“He’s been to the Pro Bowl, he’s done extremely well from a contractual standpoint,” McGuire said. “I believe more pressing issue with him is being afforded that opportunity to play with a contender. He feels like this is one of situations he’s been waiting on.”

Ambrose will need patience. Vermeil, who’s vacationing in Pennsylvania, said it’s unclear how long the Chiefs will wait to sign a corner. Training camp starts July 28 in River Falls, Wis.

He said the Chiefs have no immediate plans to bring Law in for a physical.

“I think realistically that we, in the future, will make a move on Ashley,” Vermeil said. “Right now we’ve just decided to be patient and see what happens.”

 

[Nors]

http://www.danwismar.com/archives/wizblog/002046.html

 

[jterrell]

http://www.danwismar.com/archives/wizblog/002046.html

If I were an athlete they are the last guys I would sign with.

I'd sign with Jimmy Sexton of course so the Boys would have an inside edge. lol.

 

[Alexander]

http://www.danwismar.com/archives/wizblog/002046.html

Good points in here.

Browns Bracing For Postons

Len Pasquarelli says there's no movement in the contract talks for some of the biggest unsigned "franchise" players in the NFL:

... for the five unsigned veterans who carry the franchise tag and the club negotiators who must hammer out a way to bridge the huge negotiation differences that always seem to exist, things figure to get ugly in coming weeks. Realistically, no one should count on any of the unsigned franchise players -- offensive tackles Walter Jones (Seattle) and Orlando Pace (St. Louis), corners Charles Woodson (Oakland) and Chris McAlister (Baltimore), and linebacker Julian Peterson (San Francisco) -- being in training camp on time for the first night's bed check...​

One common thread for Pace, Woodson and Peterson: All are represented by brothers Carl Poston and Kevin Poston, whose names send chills up the spines of club officials. The Postons, in the past at least, have never demonstrated a qualm about keeping a player out of camp. In many cases, like that of Pace, their contract proposals are unrealistic. All the better, perhaps, for the three teams that have to deal with the Postons to just face the poison as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet, and likely won't.​

"Poison", "hardball", "the Darth Vaders of football agents", "an abomination to the league itself", "no bigger boil on the backside of the NFL", "the cancer of the Poston brothers...", "a horse's ***". These are some of the references to Carl and Kevin Poston from a quick online search on their names. Granted, those aren't the words of NFL General Managers. They're the words of journalists, Internet columnists and commentators. But it's hard to find someone who has anything good to say about them. And when team officials do speak up it's usually in frustration. Rams President Jay Zygmunt, referring to the Postons' proposal for Orlando Pace, said "It's not an offer; it's a ransom note." Kevin Poston defends himself in this Argus article:

"My job is to work for my clients," Kevin Poston said. "I happen to have some very good young clients. A lot of it is very unfair. My job is to get my guy fair market value, not to squeeze blood out of a turnip. There's nothing evil about me. I've got a family like everybody else. I've got kids. I think that's a very unfair assessment."​

Carl and Kevin Poston, profiled here in the Saginaw News, made a big splash in athlete representation with Penny Hardaway, and have since added big stars like Pace and Charles Woodson to the firm. But they are known for hardball tactics and long holdouts, and are seen by many around the NFL as a pernicious influence. For better or for worse, they make the list of Sports Illustrated's Top 100 Most Influential Minorities in Sports, coming in at Nos. 64 and 65. I have not heard anyone suggest that they are anything but effective in achieving good contracts for their clients. But they often cost those players and their teams valuable practice time, and manage to alienate both teams and players with their tactics. This has made the franchise tag option the court of last resort for NFL teams negotiating for the Postons' clients. The teams feel forced to use it because the demands of the Postons are often too outrageous to even consider. In most cases, both player and team would prefer to sign a long-term contract, but the agents are in the way. Orlando Pace for one has considered dumping the Postons as his agents in order to resolve his longstanding dispute with the Rams. And the 49ers would like to keep Julian Peterson, as this "49er Commentary" says:

General Manager Terry Donahue really likes Julian Peterson and considers him a part of the future for the franchise to build around. However no matter how much he thinks of Julian it doesn't equal the greed that breaths in the lungs of the Poston brothers.​

Tough stuff. But with the Postons, it often gets ugly. Mark Stone at FootballHuddles.com lists some of the nasty high-profile cases involving the Postons' clients:

Julian Peterson is threatening to hold out for over 10 million dollars in San Francisco, wanting to be paid like Ray Lewis of the Baltimore Ravens. Orlando Pace wants to be a 10 million dollar offensive-lineman.

Lavarr Arrington files a grievance the Washington Commanders over a 6.5 million dollar contract dispute.

Charles Woodson almost single-handedly forced a coaching change in Oakland, rescued only by a poor season by the Silver and Black.

Ty Law finally agreed to play under a 7 million dollar contract, but not before accusing the media of turning the story into a "I never said that" claim.

All of the above players have one thing in common: their agents, Carl and Kevin Poston...

...Even the NFLPA is contemplating taking action against Carl Poston, in light of the grievance that he and his client, Lavarr Arrington brought up against the Washington Commanders. While the NFLPA says they?re doing everything they can to settle the issue between Arrington and the Commanders, the Poston issue is one that not even the NFLPA is sure what to do about.

​

Washington Commanders officials have made no secret of the fact that they passed on Winslow with the 5th pick in the draft because they didn't want to go around again with the Postons after the ugliness of the Lavar Arrington lawsuit situation. Some teams are deciding it's just not worth it. Green Bay had a bad holdout with Terrell Buckley, an early client in the Postons' career as agents:

Asked if he believes NFL teams would turn their back on a player because he was represented by the Postons, (then-Packers G.M. Ron) Wolf said, "I don't know if they do, but I would."​

So some of the most contentious, bitter and protracted negotiations in the NFL today involve the brothers Poston, and they'll soon be sitting down with the Cleveland Browns to negotiate for Kellen Winslow Jr. The Poston brothers have got to be licking their chops. The two members of the Browns front office most experienced at player contract negotiations and salary cap management, President Carmen Policy and attorney Lal Heneghan, have both been sacked in the recent housecleaning establishing Butch Davis as the Master of All He Sees. Owner Randy Lerner personally intervened to help end the Dennis Northcutt fiasco, and it looks like he'll be front-and-center for the franchise in their dealings with the Postons. No telling yet how capable or involved John Collins will be. He was a rising marketing executive with the NFL office and was hired as President when Policy was ousted. With that as the backdrop to the upcoming fight negotiations, I like the Postons in a TKO.



So what can the Browns expect? The Postons have already weighed in on what their negotiating posture will be. From a piece in The Tennessean:

Kevin Poston already has fired the first verbal warning shot. He said Winslow Jr. should be paid like the draft's first pick overall because some teams may have had him as the top player on the board and then compared Winslow Jr. to LeBron James.

"He's an unbelievable talent, a star in the making," Kevin Poston said. "The bottom line is the Browns know how good Kellen is and was projected to be, and my job is to make sure he gets his fair market value."

​

The Browns have of course already invested a lot in the selection of Kellen Winslow Jr. Way back in January this blogger noted the hiring of Rob Chudzinski, former Offensive Coordinator for Winslow at U. of Miami to be the Browns' new tight ends coach as a sign the Browns planned to take Winslow Jr. (Yeah, I know...rocket science..)

Then they got so nervous with one selection to go on Draft Day that they traded a second round pick, the 37th overall, just to move up one spot to assure themselves of the Winslow selection. In the mini-camps the kid has looked ready to start, contribute, and maybe even "star" for a team largely devoid of offensive difference-makers. The Browns front office is fairly desperate to avoid alienating fans and media following a miserable 5-11 season in 2003, and may be inclined to just roll over for the Postons' proposal, just to keep the peace and get him into camp on time.

But it won't be that easy. The NFL has a fairly well-defined "slotting" system when it comes to negotiations for 1st Round draft choices, especially the top 10 or so players. There's no quicker way for a team to alienate their NFL lodge brothers than to opt out of the tap dance that teams and agents do each year to make sure the 4th pick gets more than the 5th pick, and less than the 3rd pick, etc.

In clients like Woodson(4th overall), Charles Rodgers (2nd overall), and Pace (1st overall), the Postons have plenty of experience dealing at that elite level. The Browns, with their experienced negotiators gone, appear to be approaching the negotiating table armed with a popgun to try to take down a grizzly bear. Not too many first rounders actually end up sitting out regular season games in contract disputes. And I think that too much is made of the supposed ill effects of training camp holdouts.

That said, a lengthy Poston-style holdout for Winslow seems almost guaranteed unless the Browns completely cave. I think a complete rollover is unlikely though. The team has to be aware that officials around the league have been wondering what the hell is going on in Berea, so they're sure to act like a responsible lodge brother should, and try to "slot" Winslow's contract accordingly. The Poston brothers are poised and ready to do business as only they do it. Pasquarelli said to prepare for a "long hot summer."

UPDATE 7/18: After posting this late Saturday, I get up to find a feature on the Poston brothers by Browns beat writer Mary Kay Cabot in the Sunday Plain Dealer. Cabot does manage to find some positive quotes about them, which is more than I turned up. It strikes me as a bit of a "puff piece" on these guys though. The article's angle is how the wholesome upbringing of the Postons gives them the strength to deal with the nasty things people say about them. Somewhat less emphasis is given to the actions and tactics of the Postons that are the reasons people are saying those things.