Hey Nors--Some Ty Law news!

[Alexander]

Do you know what a thug is?????

Do you? Or do you think it is something mythical?

I gave examples about who I thought was and was not. Those with class and those without.

When Coach Parcells talked about thugs, he had precisely these types of characters in mind.

You are not worth the time. Once again have a nice day better yet .........get educated.

Fair enough. Sorry I offended.

But is there a school or something you could suggest that I could attend to help me get "educated"? Perhaps a correspondance course?

 

[Alexander]

I do not think they target 'thugs' at all, or that 'thugs' are most attracted to their representation. (btw, Ty Law is NO thug.)

I think their "promise" that they will get their clients the top contract at their position WAS their initial attraction, and apparently they did have some early successes. Now they're living on whatever past glory they accrued.

The crime aspect was not what I was getting at. Arrington is not necessarily a criminal, and neither is Kellen Winslow or as you said Law.

But isn't the raw pursuit of money part of the mindset? Arrington is probably one of the players you read about in ten years who is destitute and broke because he was used and abused.

But the Postons are not more responsible for subsequent actions by their clients than Drew Rosenhaus is for representing Sean Taylor.

And if agents are going to be required to do character investigations, or make character a litmus test, before they take on clients, they will set the entire legal profession on it rear.

later

Rosenhaus is another who appeals to those with that outlook. Go after the money now. And scream until you get it.

The agent a player chooses often signals to the NFL what kind of character that player has. And often it is a personality match, which is probably a more delicate way of putting it. Rosenhaus is making a living off of University of Miami products, is there not some common theme with the characters that pop out of that program?

Some agents have excellent reputations and are able to get their jobs done (Jimmy Sexton and Lamont Smith are prime examples). Others have reputations that are low on the totem pole and use intimidation to get the job done.

Overall, I view the Postons just like Don King. Out for their own interests while exploiting the unfortunate athletes they represent.

 

[junk]

Yeah it makes you wonder if anyone actually knows what going......... on other than what the mediots spew.


Get your facts straight:

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28490&page=3&pp=15

Sometimes they don't do too badly. This season, for example, PSP negotiated a six-year $40 million deal, including a $16.5 million signing bonus, for tight end Winslow, the No. 6 pick in the NFL draft. That's a sweeter package than three of the players drafted before Winslow were able to land

They didn't blunder his rookie contract. Infact he got more money than guys who went before him. Winslow broke his leg rookie season thus losing money due to PT.

It was clearly stated in your yahoo like, but it appears your comprehension skills went out the window. Winslow got injured, the Postons can't control injuries. They didn't blunder the contract .

You get your facts straight. That PT incentive is typically rolled over if not met (to account for injuries). It wasn't for Winslow because the Postons dropped the ball. It cost him over $5 million. I'll find the link for you tonight after work.

 

[Charles]

It wasn't such a 'greater deal' than the Pats offered, and which came with two more rings.

That I'd love to see.

Okay I'll get rid of the fluff (which includes the rest of your post) and get to the contract.

1st and foremost gurranteeing 2 more rings as part of a contract deal is laughable therefore I'll ignore the crystal ball logic.........

The Patriots were having cap probelms. The Lawyer Milloy was cut because the Patriots couldn't handle his $5.25 million cap figure. Milloy wasn't willing to take a pay cut. He was coming off 4 straight Pro Bowl seasons. He was a team leader/Captain and significant contributor to the Patriots SuperBowl run. He was even the 1st player to track down Belicheck and hug him after the final seconds ticked off the clock in the SuperBowl. Milloy in one hand , Belicheck daughter in other as they celebrated (hows that for fluff . My point..... he was as close to Belicheck as any player ever was and the team knew it, thus the surprise after his release.

The Postons got Lawyer Milloy a $5 million Signing Bonus plus his base salary for 2003 was $2 million. He made almost 2 more million with the Bills in 2003.

The Patriots didn't honor the contract and wanted Milloy to take a pay cut.

The Poston got him more cash........lived up their billing. They also got more than half of the 4 year $15 million deal in the 1st 2 years.

I remember Lenny Pasquerelli stating that the money up front by the Bills out bid Danny boy over at Commanders park.

It was a greater deal..............

Did you love seeing it

 

[Charles]

You get your facts straight. That PT incentive is typically rolled over if not met (to account for injuries). It wasn't for Winslow because the Postons dropped the ball. It cost him over $5 million. I'll find the link for you tonight after work.

I'll be waiting.....................

 

[silver]

Winslow got injured, the Postons can't control injuries. They didn't blunder the contract .

Players who are not in football shape are more likely to get injured. otherwise what's the purpose of training camp? So in fact they blundered the contract by holding him out and missing training camp.

 

[Charles]

Players who are not in football shape are more likely to get injured. otherwise what's the purpose of training camp? So in fact they blundered the contract by holding him out and missing training camp.

:laugh2: :laugh1:

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

The Skins word against theirs we'll see who wins in abitration

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_39/b3901094.htm

Still, controversy dogs the Postons with each new deal. Commanders star linebacker LaVar Arrington, another client, is ensnared in an arbitration over whether the team negotiated one contract and then -- unbeknownst to Carl, he says -- slipped Arrington another to sign, minus a $6.5 million bonus. "If the agent admits he didn't read the contract, that's worrisome," says one player rep who asked not to be named. Carl says he's confident that Arrington will prevail in the arbitration. Arrington stands by the Postons.

How can you just gloss over the idea that they FAILED TO READ THE FINAL CONTRACT!

Are you one of the postons love child or something?

 

[Charles]

How can you just gloss over the idea that they FAILED TO READ THE FINAL CONTRACT!

Are you one of the postons love child or something?

"If the agent admits he didn't read the contract, that's worrisome," says one player rep who asked not to be named.

Main Entry: 1if
Pronunciation: 'if, &f
Function: conjunction
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gif; akin to Old High German ibu if
1 a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that
2 : WHETHER <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>
3 -- used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>
4 : even though <an interesting if untenable argument>
- if anything : on the contrary even : perhaps even <if anything, you ought to apologize>

..............but it's the Poston's contention:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_39/b3901094.htm

Still, controversy dogs the Postons with each new deal. Commanders star linebacker LaVar Arrington, another client, is ensnared in an arbitration over whether the team negotiated one contract and then -- unbeknownst to Carl, he says -- slipped Arrington another to sign, minus a $6.5 million bonus

It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to realize that the Poston stated they negotiated a contract which was then switched by the Commanders and hand over to LaVar for signing.

This is big business. Contracts can be agreed upon/ faxed or fedex ( ) between teams and agents. In good faith the player signs the contract knowing both parties are in agreement. They don't have to be in the same room. Agents don't have to look over the contract the second it is being signed by their client.

Anyway, the abitration will reveal the truth.

No I am not a Poston Love child :laugh2: . I wish as much money as they are making, it better than being a media trick.........

 

[Vertigo_17]

"If the agent admits he didn't read the contract, that's worrisome," says one player rep who asked not to be named.

Main Entry: 1if
Pronunciation: 'if, &f
Function: conjunction
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gif; akin to Old High German ibu if
1 a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that
2 : WHETHER <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>
3 -- used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>
4 : even though <an interesting if untenable argument>
- if anything : on the contrary even : perhaps even <if anything, you ought to apologize>

..............but it's the Poston's contention:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_39/b3901094.htm

Still, controversy dogs the Postons with each new deal. Commanders star linebacker LaVar Arrington, another client, is ensnared in an arbitration over whether the team negotiated one contract and then -- unbeknownst to Carl, he says -- slipped Arrington another to sign, minus a $6.5 million bonus

It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to realize that the Poston stated they negotiated a contract which was then switched by the Commanders and hand over to LaVar for signing.

This is big business. Contracts can be agreed upon/ faxed or fedex ( ) between teams and agents. In good faith the player signs the contract knowing both parties are in agreement. They don't have to be in the same room. Agents don't have to look over the contract the second it is being signed by their client.

Anyway, the abitration will reveal the truth.

No I am not a Poston Love child :laugh2: . I wish as much money as they are making, it better than being a media trick.........

Now it's come down to bold letters - what's next? ALL CAPS?

Bottom line is that LaVar signed a contract that did not include the $6.5M bonus. THis contract was filed with the NFL. If LaVar or the Postons did not read the actual contract that they signed with ink...then it's their own fault. I can understand their claim that maybe they thought they were signing something else - but at the end of the day the person who signs the contract is responsible for reading it first. It's really pretty straight forward.

 

[Nors]

Now it's come down to bold letters - what's next? ALL CAPS?

Bottom line is that LaVar signed a contract that did not include the $6.5M bonus. THis contract was filed with the NFL. If LaVar or the Postons did not read the actual contract that they signed with ink...then it's their own fault. I can understand their claim that maybe they thought they were signing something else - but at the end of the day the person who signs the contract is responsible for reading it first. It's really pretty straight forward.

It will legally be what was the intent of both parties was. Usually in contracts such as this there is a very formal process on reiterations of changes. You can usually formally follow all the changes to a contract. In court it will come out what was the intent of both parties? If the contract all along had no $6.5M bonus in it the player is screwed. If Bonus was in all earlier versions of contract and suddenly is "out". Player might have a shot at it.

If the details are sketchy the onus will be on player and the signed contract will overule. I personally was involved in a contract that had this exact issue (ommission/error) but we were able to prove it was both parties intent to deal as X. Our Counsel prevailed on that even though there was a signed contract of Y.

I personally don't trust any agent, and this is classic - Postons or Danny Boy get screwed. Well and Arrington got some in the middle too I guess you could say.

 

[Charles]

Now it's come down to bold letters - what's next? ALL CAPS?

Bottom line is that LaVar signed a contract that did not include the $6.5M bonus. THis contract was filed with the NFL. If LaVar or the Postons did not read the actual contract that they signed with ink...then it's their own fault. I can understand their claim that maybe they thought they were signing something else - but at the end of the day the person who signs the contract is responsible for reading it first. It's really pretty straight forward.

Hey BP started it by in his response :

If it was straight forward the case wouldn't be going to abitration.

Don't forget the Poston's are very successful lawyers aka cheating sonsof.........

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

"If the agent admits he didn't read the contract, that's worrisome," says one player rep who asked not to be named.

Main Entry: 1if
Pronunciation: 'if, &f
Function: conjunction
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gif; akin to Old High German ibu if
1 a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that
2 : WHETHER <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>
3 -- used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>
4 : even though <an interesting if untenable argument>
- if anything : on the contrary even : perhaps even <if anything, you ought to apologize>

..............but it's the Poston's contention:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_39/b3901094.htm

Still, controversy dogs the Postons with each new deal. Commanders star linebacker LaVar Arrington, another client, is ensnared in an arbitration over whether the team negotiated one contract and then -- unbeknownst to Carl, he says -- slipped Arrington another to sign, minus a $6.5 million bonus

It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to realize that the Poston stated they negotiated a contract which was then switched by the Commanders and hand over to LaVar for signing.

This is big business. Contracts can be agreed upon/ faxed or fedex ( ) between teams and agents. In good faith the player signs the contract knowing both parties are in agreement. They don't have to be in the same room. Agents don't have to look over the contract the second it is being signed by their client.

Anyway, the abitration will reveal the truth.

No I am not a Poston Love child :laugh2: . I wish as much money as they are making, it better than being a media trick.........

What part do you not get?

IF the postons and Lavar are claiming the contract was switched it still makes no difference because as Lavar's agents they should have read the contract, initialed it and then had Lavar sign it right then and there.......they did not do that.

They were under the gun on other things and just assumed the contract was ok and Lavar signed it.

So EVEN IF the Commanders switched the contract as you and the postons claim...they STILL SHOULD HAVE READ IT FIRST before Lavar Signed it.

 

[Doomsday101]

What part do you not get?

IF the postons and Lavar are claiming the contract was switched it still makes no difference because as Lavar's agents they should have read the contract, initialed it and then had Lavar sign it right then and there.......they did not do that.

They were under the gun on other things and just assumed the contract was ok and Lavar signed it.

So EVEN IF the Commanders switched the contract as you and the postons claim...they STILL SHOULD HAVE READ IT FIRST before Lavar Signed it.

Isn't that why you hire an agent? LOL

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Isn't that why you hire an agent? LOL

Exactly, to get you the best deal, to cover your contracts and make sure everything is right.

 

[Charles]

What part do you not get?

IF the postons and Lavar are claiming the contract was switched it still makes no difference because as Lavar's agents they should have read the contract, initialed it and then had Lavar sign it right then and there.......they did not do that.

They were under the gun on other things and just assumed the contract was ok and Lavar signed it.

So EVEN IF the Commanders switched the contract as you and the postons claim...they STILL SHOULD HAVE READ IT FIRST before Lavar Signed it.

A.........B...........C. If it thats simple then Why is the NFL even entertaining this issue with an abitration?

This isn't you everyday mom and pops contract, where every page is initialed or where the agent has to be present when it is signed.

You have no clue what the Postons were doing or what they assumed.

The facts are no one knows what really happened but YOU chose to believe the story printed in the media by those who don't favor the Postons.

I chose to look at the situation from both angles. Recognize and understand each parties argument and reserve judgement until after the abitration. I don't jump to conclusion like you did based on a biased opinion formualted by the sports media who don't even know half of the truth or what really happened.

Get real BP. The questions still stands.

Why is the NFLPA and NFL still holding an arbitration on July 18th.

Why did the NFL keep pushing back the abitration date if it was as simple as A B C

Why did the Commanders try and resolve the situation

I know that the Poston's didn't read the finall draft because of the looming deadline, but that didn't stop the NFLPA from helping LaVar file for abitration, because the Commanders set a bad precendence if they infact removed a portion of the agreed Contract prior to LaVar signature.

This isn't about the Postons and their over sight. It is much bigger.

Take off you Poston hate glasses and wait until the ruling.............

gotta go later.

 

[Vertigo_17]

It will legally be what was the intent of both parties was. Usually in contracts such as this there is a very formal process on reiterations of changes. You can usually formally follow all the changes to a contract. In court it will come out what was the intent of both parties? If the contract all along had no $6.5M bonus in it the player is screwed. If Bonus was in all earlier versions of contract and suddenly is "out". Player might have a shot at it.

If the details are sketchy the onus will be on player and the signed contract will overule. I personally was involved in a contract that had this exact issue (ommission/error) but we were able to prove it was both parties intent to deal as X. Our Counsel prevailed on that even though there was a signed contract of Y.

I personally don't trust any agent, and this is classic - Postons or Danny Boy get screwed. Well and Arrington got some in the middle too I guess you could say.

I don't know - that's pretty loose regarding intent, but you might be right. It seems to me that there's alot of negotiating that goes one (maybe not w/ the Postons ) and numbers change back and forth.

For instance...

Player wants $5M/5Yrs with a $10M SB. (Total Comp $35M)
Team Offers $6M/5Yrs with a $5M SB (Total Comp $35M)

Say that player agrees to this contract - what's to say that he does think the team owes him a $10M SB because it was in a previous contract discussion? To me, it all comes down to the actual contract that was signed and submitted to the league. It's all there in black and white with the I's dotted and the T's crossed.

I'll be really shocked if LaVar gets anything from the arbitration...but then again I also didn't think TO would win his arbitration either.

 

[junk]

I'll be waiting.....................

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1885537

The contract, negotiated by Carl and Kevin Poston, called for the bonuses to be tied to the 2004 season. Normally, there are rollover provisions in contracts similar to these, but Winslow's contract does not appear to have a rollover of the bonus for future years.

There you go, roll your eyes at that.

More on the Arrington thing...

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050114-121257-3984r.htm

The Pro Bowl linebacker cited as factors his inability to play much this season ("You figure it's a roster bonus [and] I wasn't really a part of the roster this year") and his love of the city ("The city means too much to me, being a Commander means too much to me").

However, more likely is that Arrington never had much chance to win the case. His agents, Carl and Kevin Poston, conceded not reading the final draft of the contract. Arrington's camp was left with a very high standard of proof — fraud on the part of the Commanders — to get the $6.5 million reinstated.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

Okay I'll get rid of the fluff (which includes the rest of your post) and get to the contract.

1st and foremost gurranteeing 2 more rings as part of a contract deal is laughable therefore I'll ignore the crystal ball logic.........

The Patriots were having cap probelms. The Lawyer Milloy was cut because the Patriots couldn't handle his $5.25 million cap figure. Milloy wasn't willing to take a pay cut. He was coming off 4 straight Pro Bowl seasons. He was a team leader/Captain and significant contributor to the Patriots SuperBowl run. He was even the 1st player to track down Belicheck and hug him after the final seconds ticked off the clock in the SuperBowl. Milloy in one hand , Belicheck daughter in other as they celebrated (hows that for fluff . My point..... he was as close to Belicheck as any player ever was and the team knew it, thus the surprise after his release.

The Postons got Lawyer Milloy a $5 million Signing Bonus plus his base salary for 2003 was $2 million. He made almost 2 more million with the Bills in 2003.

The Patriots didn't honor the contract and wanted Milloy to take a pay cut.

The Poston got him more cash........lived up their billing. They also got more than half of the 4 year $15 million deal in the 1st 2 years.

I remember Lenny Pasquerelli stating that the money up front by the Bills out bid Danny boy over at Commanders park.

It was a greater deal..............

Did you love seeing it

Charles. I know LM got paid well enough in Buffalo. My question was how much MORE he got there than the Pats offered him.

Altho Lawyer did do okay, it was darn shame that the Pats felt compellled to release him. They didn't want to because by doing so they had to eat 1.389 mil dead money on him in 03 and another 4,168 mil in 04. They couldn't trade him because they'd get stuck with a whopping 5.9 mil cap hit.

http://www.patsfans.com/stories/display_story.php?story_id=2255

When negotiations break down the way they did in that case, and a player of that quality released a day or two before the season begins, it's no credit to the agents.

I don't know how much more he got in Buffalo than his final offer in NE. If it was even 2 cents more and it was about the money for him, then fine. But he did accept one restructure during those negotations, indicating he wanted to stay in NE.

No one said the Milloy denouement was as sad as the Pace, Arrington, or Winslow where gross incompetence played a role. This was just intransigence, another Poston hallmark. I'll check to see if I can find the diff between what Lawyer got in Buffalo and what the Pats offered.

But I 'spect it wasn't a vast difference.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

The crime aspect was not what I was getting at. Arrington is not necessarily a criminal, and neither is Kellen Winslow or as you said Law.

But isn't the raw pursuit of money part of the mindset? Arrington is probably one of the players you read about in ten years who is destitute and broke because he was used and abused.

Rosenhaus is another who appeals to those with that outlook. Go after the money now. And scream until you get it.

The agent a player chooses often signals to the NFL what kind of character that player has. And often it is a personality match, which is probably a more delicate way of putting it. Rosenhaus is making a living off of University of Miami products, is there not some common theme with the characters that pop out of that program?

Some agents have excellent reputations and are able to get their jobs done (Jimmy Sexton and Lamont Smith are prime examples). Others have reputations that are low on the totem pole and use intimidation to get the job done.

Overall, I view the Postons just like Don King. Out for their own interests while exploiting the unfortunate athletes they represent.

Well, I think the agent's job is to get every last penny he can for his client. It's up to management to worry about the cap.

I have no problems with Rosenhaus camped outside the U of M scarfing up Hurricanes..because that man is going to represent those players well.
Rosenhaus is ruthless, perhaps, but he is smart, hard working, and cut-throat or not, maintains good relations with the teams. I have never heard it said any team refused to draft any player who is represented or considering being represented by him. He may be a shark, but he is a total professional.

The Postons don't seem to have ANY of the good agent qualities. Promising you will get top money at your position can work against the client. It simply shrinks the negotiating position to a tiny box from the start. Quasi-ultimatums have no place in negotiations, imo.

I too think they are 'exploiters'. But they'll be hardlining themselves right out of the business if it turns out to be true the full range of teams will not consider a potential draftee because he is being represented by these clowns.

But it's not like they're the only incompetents out there. They are hard line and inept, but some are soft and inept.

Best example I can think of of this tyoe of fool is James Gould, the Columbus based agent who represents Terry. He allowed an ambiguously written "morals clause" (anything that 'embarassed' the organization) to deprive Terry of the most lucrative slice of most players' pro careers - the signing bonus on the second contract. Full knowing the exten tof the then problems.

Imagine having an agent who cost you well over ten million dollars, one who had represented you since you were a rookie, witnessed all your RECENT 'problems' from the NFL 'Intervention' program to team suspensions to public drunkenness to traffic altercations to celebrity nuisnace suit "groping charges" to you name it, and still allowed language in the contract by which nothing more serious than spitting on the sidelines could cause a forfeit of your bonus. Within a few weeks, poor TG had "embarrassed" the organization with a league suspension, a domestic abuse case, and an awol in camp. LMAO. Kiss 13. 5 million good-bye!

I think I'd hire the freaking POSTONS first.