Highest rushing grades in goal to go situations since 2015

[khiladi]

Do you still believe Zeke is a home run hitter? 2 more years have gone by since our debate with no home runs.

That has nothing to do with your argument about Morris.

Do you believe running predictably into stacked boxes over and over again, reduces the chances for home run hitting. Maybe if the Qb knew how to audible at the line, he’s have more home run hits, thus the comment about Dak and respect by defenses.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Maybe that's where we are different. He should be special, particularly behind this offensive line. That's why we used a 4th overall pick. We already had a top running attack in the league. We wanted to make it better. If all we want is a high yardage total, we just give RBs more carries.If they average 4 YPC they get 1600 yards if you give it to them 400 times.

Alfred Morris gave us 547 yards in 2017 averaging 4.8 ypc, compared to Zeke's 4.1 ypc that year. He did that primarily being the started in Zeke's 6 game absence, 3 of which were when our offensive line was at our worst since 2012. He also faced a stack box on a greater percentage of carries than Zeke faced. That shouldn't happen. No way should that happen.

Yeah I don't knock him because the Cowboys spent a 4th overall pick on him. They foolishly did that not him. So I just judge him based on production. If I'm judging based on his draft position then he exceeds it since Saquon and Fournette haven't produced nearly as well as he has.

I think his production is special. I think aspects of his game is special. I'm not sure how special he is but I'm not sure how special any of these running backs are.

 

[Aviano90]

VOLUME versus PERCENTAGE... of you adjust for volume, Zeke is easily top 10. With Zeke, you definitely have to normalize the stats, because he rushes MORE than any other back in the league, plus more into stacked boxes. Situational backs may performance better percentage wise, because they are going full situationally.

That’s often the problem with people using stats. They don’t know how they are using them.

Using percentage normalizes the difference in volume. It has to be used when there is a large difference in volume. Otherwise you can't compare.

 

[Aviano90]

That has nothing to do with your argument about Morris.

Do you believe running predictably into stacked boxes over and over again, reduces the chances for home run hitting. Maybe if the Qb knew how to audible at the line, he’s have more home run hits, thus the comment about Dak and respect by defenses.

If you aren't going to answer my questions, I'm not going to answer your questions. You made an apology post several months ago. Let's see if you're a little more honest when posting now. Otherwise, I'm not wasting my time with you.

 

[khiladi]

Using percentage normalizes the difference in volume. It has to be used when there is a large difference in volume. Otherwise you can't compare.

No, it doesn’t normalize. It makes it meaningless to compare.

 

[Aviano90]

No, it doesn’t normalize. It makes it meaningless to compare.

Good lord.

 

[khiladi]

If you aren't going to answer my questions, I'm not going to answer your questions. You made an apology post several months ago. Let's see if you're a little more honest when posting now. Otherwise, I'm not wasting my time with you.

You changed the topic.. Barkley has been facing this basically his whole career.

https://www.nj.com/giants/2018/10/saquon_barkley_giants_need_to_see_soft_zone_covera.html

 

[Aviano90]

You changed the topic.. Barkley has been facing this basically his whole career.

https://www.nj.com/giants/2018/10/saquon_barkley_giants_need_to_see_soft_zone_covera.html

We had a conversation 2 years ago where you disagreed with me and you said Zeke was still a home run hitter. 2 years have past with 0 home runs. Do you agree with me now?

 

[khiladi]

Good lord.

Your sarcasm doesn’t change the absurdity of your claim. Normalization means many things and it does not HAVE TO BE USED and it’s meaningless to compare volumes versus percentages when they are that different.

 

[khiladi]

We had a conversation 2 years ago where you disagreed with me and you said Zeke was still a home run hitter. 2 years have past with 0 home runs. Do you agree with me now?

I said the same thing I was saying now.

 

[Aviano90]

Yeah I don't knock him because the Cowboys spent a 4th overall pick on him. They foolishly did that not him. So I just judge him based on production. If I'm judging based on his draft position then he exceeds it since Saquon and Fournette haven't produced nearly as well as he has.

I think his production is special. I think aspects of his game is special. I'm not sure how special he is but I'm not sure how special any of these running backs are.

Good for you. I expected more from him. Glad he is meeting your expectations. Guess you lack the ability to agree to disagree?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

VOLUME versus PERCENTAGE... of you adjust for volume, Zeke is easily top 10. With Zeke, you definitely have to normalize the stats, because he rushes MORE than any other back in the league, plus more into stacked boxes. Situational backs may performance better percentage wise, because they are going full situationally.

That’s often the problem with people using stats. They don’t know how they are using them.

Its not a "total" stat its a percentage stat so why would you adjust it? And when you did this mysterious "adjustment"....it had Zeke as facing 8 men more than anyone in the league?

And Zeke does not rush more than Derrick Henry. He had 303 carries in 15 games and Zeke had 301 in 16 games....

YET, Henry faced a 8 man box 35% of the time as opposed to Zeke's 19.

You are accusing people of not knowing how to use "stats" but I think you yourself are falling victim of that. Make it make sense.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Good for you. I expected more from him. Glad he is meeting your expectations. Guess you lack the ability to agree to disagree?

Well give me something to agree to disagree on. You are saying Zeke isn't special. I'm saying he produces like a special back. No one has better stats than him and you said stats don't mean anything. So I guess this is an agree to disagree. You got it champ.

 

[khiladi]

Its not a "total" stat its a percentage stat so why would you adjust it? And when you did this mysterious "adjustment"....it had Zeke as facing 8 men more than anyone in the league?

And Zeke does not rush more than Derrick Henry. He had 303 carries in 15 games and Zeke had 301 in 16 games....

YET, Henry faced a 8 man box 35% of the time as opposed to Zeke's 19.

You are accusing people of not knowing how to use "stats" but I think you yourself are falling victim of that. Make it make sense.

Because of VOLUME.. Because the guys using the stats are in the business of collecting data and you need to know what your adjusting for and what your talking about. It makes no sense to use Hambrick’s plus 5 YPC over Emmitt Smith 4-5..

And yes, Henry did and Henry is a BEAST, but Zeke has out rushes him by far over a four year span and I’d rather have Tannehil than Dak.

 

[Aviano90]

Your sarcasm doesn’t change the absurdity of your claim. Normalization means many things and it does not HAVE TO BE USED and it’s meaningless to compare volumes versus percentages when they are that different.

It's not absurd. If Zeke is averaging 4.1 ypc and Morris is averaging 4.8 ypc, it's can't be because Zeke is facing more stacked boxes that Alfred since Alfred is running into a stacked box a greater percentage of his carries than Zeke is. How you claim that is meaningless is beyond me. If Zeke has 200 carries and faces a stacked box 50 times, that is the same rate as Morris carrying the ball 100 times and facing 25 stacked boxes. They are each running into a stacked box 1 time out of every 4 carries.

 

[12+88=7]

No, I rarely blame ONE person or coach for something as big as an entire season.

The main reasons for last seasons disappointment were:

-Garrett sucked
-Marinelli sucked
-The defense
-Kicker sucked
-special teams

And with all that Dallas would have won the division and made the playoffs had the #1 inconsistent offense in the NFL shown up instead of disappearing some weeks.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Actually, it was the same trend from Denver, prior where Dak was on his way to setting team records for most INTs returned for a TD. Then Linehan actually took the all away from Dak and fed Zeke on average plus 20 times and Dallas ended up going on a 3 game winning streak and then Zeke was suspended, and the Cowboys couldn’t score even 10 points against the three winning teams they played (Falcons, Eagles and Chargers) and wallowed in mediocrity against teams in BIGGER disarray than what you claim the Cowboys were in, including the Commanders, Giants and Oakland. You can maybe use the excuse for Clayburn, but not the rest of them.

The fact is, it was the same coaching staff...

Those were all coaching disasters....that Bronco's game was a coaching MESS. That whole season was a coaching mess. And that's also arguably Dak's worse season. He struggled that year no doubt.

 

[khiladi]

It's not absurd. If Zeke is averaging 4.1 ypc and Morris is averaging 4.8 ypc, it's can't be because Zeke is facing more stacked boxes that Alfred since Alfred is running into a stacked box a greater percentage of his carries than Zeke is. How you claim that is meaningless is beyond me. If Zeke has 200 carries and faces a stacked box 50 times, that is the same rate as Morris carrying the ball 100 times and facing 25 stacked boxes. They are each running into a stacked box 1 time out of every 4 carries.

And he averaged less per carry than Zeke, by YPC. And of course it matters, because of WORKLOAD.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Even though stats prove Dak is better when Zeke isn't on the field? You are reinforcing a outdated opinion people have who don't even watch the Cowboys. That' the embarrassing thing here.

With all due respect...I think this is a case of using a stat...misusing? ...without really getting into the CONTEXT of it. I know, I know...there was a big hub bub thread awhile ago. And I believe I said the same thing then.

Which is...wouldn't a QB have more plays and better stats...like QBR....when it's on him to make a play? When zeke is on the field....he's gonna hand off to zeke alot. That's not a Dak-stat generator. When he's off the field...probably gonna throw. Which SHOULD be a HUGE increase in potential stats.

It SEEMS like you are making a case against Zeke (or perhaps FOR Dak?) when it's the natural order of things.

Follow me? Or set me straight on the matter. I suppose we could find the same stat for other QB's?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

And with all that Dallas would have won the division and made the playoffs had the #1 inconsistent offense in the NFL shown up instead of disappearing some weeks.

That offense was not #1 in 2017.....if I'm not mistaken the defense was the one that was the better unit.