Holy Cow, Quincy was just on 103.3...

[peplaw06]

No no, QC pulled that game out. He played great minus that early INT. How do you think we got in position to kick those last two FGs?

The problem is, QC was only a very good player in those kinds of situations. If he wasn't leading a comeback, he was only "meh" as a QB. There are certain guys who just have a light that goes off when their teams are down. Quincy is one of those guys. It's just too bad that for the rest of the game he was average on his best day.

Saying QC pulled that game out for us infers that he was carrying us through that game... it's completely misleading.

Cundiff kicked 7 FGs, about 5 of those were drives that Q couldn't finish off with TDs. The saying is, every FG you kick, the closer you get to losing. We scored a grand total of two TDs in that game.... with 7 FGs. I'd say we won that game despite the fact that Q couldn't punch it in the end zone.

 

[5Stars]

You're kidding right, the Babe lasted only a few games. Carter had victories over first round qb's even as a rookie. Romo is in his 4th year and Bill still isn't sure about him. He knew from the start that Quincy could lead this team. He could have brought Griese in if he had any doubts in '03. Turns out that installing Q as the starter was one of the few things he's done right.

kartr, you need therapy in a BAD way! I'm serious, you are over the edge...! Your worship of that bum is amazing, simply amazing...I have never, ever in my long life seen this type of adoration for someone that deserves nothing but what they asked for...

You need serious help, man....!

Same crap, different day...

 

[peplaw06]

He's more reliable than Bledsoe or Romo as I've said all along, plus Vinny too.

No one here can give a reason other than the loss of Q is why this team has lost more games than it has won, since he left.

It couldn't be that we faced a real schedule the next few years, or that we changed defensive schemes, or we had kicking problems, or injury issues, or too many penalties... Nope, it's because we don't have QC... good grief.

Look at the stats. Statistically QC and Vinny's numbers were very close. Vinny scored MORE points. Drew Bledsoe threw for more yards last season than either of the two. But don't mind the facts. Keep ignoring the obvious and pushing the absurd.

 

[kartr]

Low points would be Steve Walsh, Reggie Collier, Ryan Leaf, Clint Stoerner, Chad Hutchinson, and Antonio Wright.

Quincy Carter was like Steve Pelleur, good enough to kill a coach. Despite his flaws, he outclassed the prior-mentioned wastes of uni's.

You're right about everything except killing a coach. Parcell's got to playoffs quicker than he ever did before with Q as his qb and has lost his swagger without him. He seems to be genuinely confused as to why this team isn't better. Also, Herm Edwards saved his job and got another one based on the 2004 season. The Jets have not been the same since Q left. these situations can be an accident.

 

[superpunk]

Quincy who?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[kartr]

Dallas was only crushed in two games that season. It occurred in back to back games starting at home on Thanksgiving to Miami and then at Philly. And Miami was not an elite team. Jay Feidler just played out of his mind. He obviously does not normally play at that level.

Dallas was in every other game that season and that was mostly due to the defensive effort. Even in the two shutout losses at Tampa and at New England, the defense kept the games close. If the offense could have done anything they may have pulled out victories. Too many turnovers lost those games also put the defense in bad positions, but the scores were only 16-0 and 12-0.

That's been my point all along, not getting a decent rb for an inexperienced qb was Bill's fault. He's had quality rb's every year he's coached except in 2003. He should have known better than to put an inexperienced qb in that position. Look at Hassellbeck without Alexander, not the same qb. In the loss to the Pats in 2003, Carter completed 56% of his passes to Brady's 45%. In the lost to Tampa, he completed 60% of his passes. What could he done if he had any help,remember Larry Allen struggles in that same game. Again, it was Bill's fault.

 

[kartr]

Unbelievable

Let’s simplify this….

Roger Staubach = Fleet Admiral William Frederick Halsey, Jr. (Navy Guy )

Troy Aikman = General George Smith Patton, Jr.

Quincy Carter = PVT. Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.

Both of the first two qb's were given the keys to a formula one race car, Carter was given the keys to a VW Beetle. Are you serious comparing Emmitt Smith and Tony Dorsett to Troy Hambrick.

 

[kartr]

I would love, and I do mean love, for you to walk up to a Cowboys defensive player from 2003, or any NY Jets player from 2004 and say to them that the only reason they were in the playoffs those years was Quincy Carter.

Hell, I would pay your plane fare to wherever it had to happen if someone would film it. If it was Roy Williams you would say that to I would fly there to be with you to film it for everyone.

Translation, take your clueless act somewhere else and sell it to someone who doesn't have enough brain power to pass a urine test.

The idea that the Jets are floundering because they cut Quincy Carter is surpassed in ridiculousness only by the idea that this team is suffering without him. You're suffering without him. The team is doing just fine.

For your education, when a team has a bad record they play an easier schedule the following season. In 2002 we stunk. Blame Campo, blame Jerry, blame Hutch. I don't care who you blame. It meant in 2003 we had an easy schedule and we welcomed a Hall of fame Head Coach. Lo and behold that meant in 2003 we won enough games to qualify for the playoffs. I will explain why we won enough games in a minute.

It also meant that in 2004 we were going to play a much tougher schedule, and we did. In 2004 the team forgot how to play defense without Darren Woodson and we couldn't rely on the defense to win games for us like they did in 2003.

Want proof? Oh I'm more than happy to take you to school krankcase. In 2003 our offense scored a meager 289 points. Not much better in 2004 under Vinny with 293. In other words, stasis on offense.

However on defense there was a huge swing. In 2003 we allowed only 260 points. In 2004 we allowed 405 points. Do the math. Tell you anything? If it doesn't go to your mirror and repeat the word duh over and over.

Oh and for your gee whiz collection since you love to say Q is better than Bledsoe, explain to me why the offense in 2005 scored 325 points. Q was better, but we scored less? Q was better, but Bledsoe had better stats? How does that work? Try not to get dizzy from the spin control.

Okay now let me address the absolutely ludicrous contention of yours that the 2004 Jets were playoff contenders because of Q and are floundering because he was waived. In 2003 the Jets were the worst team in the AFC East. That meant they had the easiest schedule for that division in 2004. You're trying to tell me that a player who has the following stats line is the reason that team made the playoffs?

Year...2004
Games played...7
Passes attempted...58
Passes completed...35
TDs...3
INTs...1

You think that accounted for 10 wins do you? Impressive accomplishment for 7 games. No, let's look at what he really did in the games he started at QB. There are links so you can see the evidence for yourself.

Game 1, a 20-17 loss in overtime to the Ravens (9-7), he was 13 of 22 for 175 yards with no TDs.

Game 2, a 10-7 win against the Browns (4-12), he was 11 of 20 for 116 yards with 1 TD and 1 INT.

Game 3, a 13-3 win against the Cardinals (6-10) where he was replaced by Brooks Bollinger, he was 8 of 12 for 133 yards with 1 TD.

So you want me to believe that 141 yards passing per game, and 2 TDs passing over 3 games carried the Jets to the playoffs?

Remember that the Jets started 2004, 5-0 with Penington winning every game. That's the snow job you're trying to sell me? Hell, Q lost to the only team over .500 that he faced.

For crying out loud, he took over for Pennington in the 8th game of the season against Buffalo. The Jets were 6-1 at the time. Pennington got hurt and the Jets ended up losing. To Drew Bledsoe of all people. The guy you say Carter is better than because he beat him in a game once. Oh yeah, the other loss was to Kyle Boller, another QB you think is worse. Just using your own logic, or lack thereof, against you, so don't pout.

No, you want to know why the Jets made the playoffs in 2004? Because Chad Pennington was on fire early and so was Curtis Martin, 1697 yards rushing with 12 TDs plus 245 yards receiving and 2 more TDs. It had very little to do with a guy who got replaced by Brooks Bollinger in his 3rd start for that team. Very little.

The main reason for the Jets crash in 2005? Glad you asked. How about Pennington only getting 3 games and Martin being hurt as well?

No charge for the football lesson. I can't help you with grasping this.

You're a piece of work, you use Q's stats, but only the parts that support your argument, you conveniently left our the fact that in the Arizona game
that Carter threw the winning td,not Bollinger and the same in the Cleveland game, that in crunch time it was Carter who threw the winning score with Curtis Martin out of the game with an injury. Was Pennington on fire in the Patriot game or Steeler games, no, he was virtually useless. Look at Santana Moss's numbers with Q, he looks like a first round WR, with Pennington, they were saying that Moss didn't play big.

As for the Buffalo game, give me a break, Q didn't play until the last 5 minutes of the game and in that five minutes almost brought them back to win. You also seem to forget that when Q played a full game against Bledsoe, he won and it was he who threw the td pass and it was Bledsoe who made the turnoff. How about that, Mr. Halftruth.

 

[kartr]

I wasn't POed really. I just think there comes a time to put up or shut up. He'll have no response and in a week or so will post the same drivel and I'll shoot it down again. And again he won't respond.

No sack.

Half truths again. You're arguments are so lame, they mostly don't deserve a response, but I only do it to humour you.

 

[kartr]

And drug killed the team of the 90's as many were getting into trouble and cost the life of Tuinie. You can give Carter every excuse in the world but teams in the NFL do not want druggies at QB the one position that holds leadership over all other position. Carter can't be counted on no one knows from one day to the next if will pass a drug test and teams are not going to put up with it. His talent was average to below average which is a big reason he has not been picked up by any team and was cut from the CFL which by the way has no drug policy. That should tell you it is not just what some of us think about Carter but what football people who do this for a living think of Carter.

Are these the same football people that had Kyle Orton as their starter last year and Andrew Walter this year.:laugh1:

 

[Hostile]

You've confirmed everything I suspected except for one thing. Henson and Romo weren't ready to play at all in 2004, so how could their performances been better than his, one week into training camp. Henson was just re-learning football. Vinny's numbers weren't any better than Carter's and going up against weaker defenses in 2004 than in 2003 proved that. Carter had a 98 qb rating with the Jets in 2004 despite not knowing the offense. Sounds like Bill and Jerry dropped the ball on this one. As for Q's reliability. He has never been suspended by the league and has been available to play every game of every season he played. So the arguments against him are all bogus as usual and the fact that so many hate him in spite of the fact that he has been the only qb we've made the playoffs with says more about them than him.

I never said they had played better. I said that in March of 2004 the decision to cut our ties with Q was virtually already made. They were not going to go with 3 young QBs as they had in 2003 w/ Q, Hutch, & Romo. Hutch was a goner. Once they brought in Vinny that meant one other was goign to be a goner. They liked the long term promise of Henson and Romo better and Q was released. They gave him 1 week in camp to change their minds. he didn't. Simple as that. He was cut over his performance which is exactly what I have always maintained.

 

[kartr]

Good points. I may have overstated it a little bit. We also got beat 29-10 in the wildcard round of the playoffs, so I think it's fair to say we were not an elite team.

You're right the 16-0 and 12-0 games, I suppose it is not fair to say we were crushed, but our offense was crushed. You are correct in saying that our defense kept us in those games. That's absolutely right. And the overall point I was trying to make is that Quincy Carter was not the savior for 2003 (as some are trying to say). He did some good things, but our defense was more important. Those games against good teams show that. Our offense wasn't good enough.

Carter had 288 yards passing with 2 tds against the Dolphins and our defense
gave up over 40 points. Hambrick had his usual 26 yards a game rushing. Now you tell me what the problem was. Against the Pats Carter had over 200 yards passing and Hambrick had his 26 yards rushing. Against the Panthers Carter had 254 yards passing and Hambrick had 26 yards rushing. See a pattern here.

 

[kartr]

It shameful the way Jerry and BP treated this guy.

Has Q been suspended by the NFL?

Did he fail a drug test? Who said that he did? BP or Jerry? Rumors? If he was suspended by the NFL, why did he play for the Jets the same year?

Irvin nearly goes to jail and he was never "Fired" the way Quincy was.

Exactly. And what about Marcus Coleman. Jerry said just a month ago, that he had a zero tolerance drug policy. And what of Keith Davis. Bill and Jerry are hippocrits.

 

[kartr]

Actually, Jerry treated Quincy Carter very good while in Dallas. Jerry was the one that reached for Carter in the 2nd Round (a friend at work told me that Jerry thought the Raiders were going to nab him, dont know about).

Jerry talked about how Quincy had talent that may not come again in years...if even.

Jerry even drafted the guy even when he knew he was going to enter the league in the Substance Abusve Program.

No, Jerry was very loyal to Quincy Carter.

And Bill Parcells could have easily cut Quincy before the 2003 season, which everyone at least the Metroplex thought was a foregone conclusion.

- Mike G.

See if your wife thinks you're being loyal when you go out and get a girlfriend on the side like Jerry did Hutch and Henson, the franchise qb's.:laugh1:

 

[kartr]

kartr, you need therapy in a BAD way! I'm serious, you are over the edge...! Your worship of that bum is amazing, simply amazing...I have never, ever in my long life seen this type of adoration for someone that deserves nothing but what they asked for...

You need serious help, man....!

Same crap, different day...

Facts are facts, bub. This is a free country and everyone has a right to express their opinion. If can't handle it. Tough.

 

[Hostile]

You're a piece of work, you use Q's stats, but only the parts that support your argument, you conveniently left our the fact that in the Arizona game
that Carter threw the winning td,not Bollinger and the same in the Cleveland game, that in crunch time it was Carter who threw the winning score with Curtis Martin out of the game with an injury. Was Pennington on fire in the Patriot game or Steeler games, no, he was virtually useless. Look at Santana Moss's numbers with Q, he looks like a first round WR, with Pennington, they were saying that Moss didn't play big.

The point margin against the Cardinals was 10 points. TDs are 6 points and a 2 point conversion would make 8 points. Carter can somehow throw a 10 or 11 point TD?

Dream on.

Pennington is so superior to Q it's not even funny. That is why he was the Jets starter. That's why when he was healthy he sent Q back to the bench. That's why the Jets scored more points with him at QB. That's why he's still employed.

As for the Buffalo game, give me a break, Q didn't play until the last 5 minutes of the game and in that five minutes almost brought them back to win. You also seem to forget that when Q played a full game against Bledsoe, he won and it was he who threw the td pass and it was Bledsoe who made the turnoff. How about that, Mr. Halftruth.

How about what? He didn't save the day? Yeah, I already knew that.

You completely ignored the facts about Dallas defense. I wonder why? I really don't. I know it shoots your theories out of the water and I know you dotoo.

You completely ignore the facts that Curtis Martin and Pennington being injured in 2005 is why they suffered. Pennington is back this year and they are playing well again. Go figure.

 

[Hostile]

Half truths again. You're arguments are so lame, they mostly don't deserve a response, but I only do it to humour you.

Tell the truth, you have no answer to why the offense was better under Bledsoe, why the defense fell so hard in 2004, and why the Jets are winning without Q now that Pennington is healthy.

You've got less than nothing and we all know it.

 

[Hostile]

Exactly. And what about Marcus Coleman. Jerry said just a month ago, that he had a zero tolerance drug policy. And what of Keith Davis. Bill and Jerry are hippocrits.

Marcus Coleman wasn't suspended for drugs.

Try not to stumble over facts.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Oh, EDuncan. Another victim of da chronic.
Oh, the demon weed has entangled yet another innocent into the den of addiction. I weep for the future.
Come back to us E. We'll have have an interference for you. I mean an intervention.

 

[joseephuss]

He's more reliable than Bledsoe or Romo as I've said all along, plus Vinny too.

No one here can give a reason other than the loss of Q is why this team has lost more games than it has won, since he left.

No, you just ignore the reason the team lost games in 2004.

Just a recap for you to ignore again:
Darren Woodson does not play the entire season due to injury.
They replace an average Ekuban with a very bad Wiley at right defensive end.
They replace an at best average Willie Blade with a less than average Leonardo Carson.
The replace an at best average Mario Edwards with a few bad right corner backs.

That is over 1/3 of the defense from 2003 team that just got worse. Much worse. I also think that Dexter Coakley's play deteriated as well. He was still decent, but had lost a step.

Those were the major reasons that Dallas suffered through a 6-10 season, but I am sure you will dismiss them.