Holy Cow, Quincy was just on 103.3...

[joseephuss]

Game 1, a 20-17 loss in overtime to the Ravens (9-7), he was 13 of 22 for 175 yards with no TDs.

"After going 8-for-8(132 yds. by me) in the first half, Carter went 5-of-14 for 43 yards after the break."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap?gid=20041114020

The Jets led 14-7 at halftime, but QC and the Jets offense could do nothing in the second half. He pretty much did not allow the team to win that game.

 

[Hostile]

"Game 3, a 13-3 win against the Cardinals (6-10) where he was replaced by Brooks Bollinger, he was 8 of 12 for 133 yards with 1 TD."

I guess this will be my first post, and it's about Quincy Carter no less. Go figure.

Let me just get this out of the way, I was a Q fan... I thought the guy had potential, but it's his own fault that he didn't live up to it. And I certainly don't but into the hyperbolic arguments that he was the worst QB "evah".

But to say he was "replaced by Brooks Bollinger" is completely disengenous on your part... Carter was actually knocked out of that game for awhile, only to come back into it.

There are plenty of other arguments to make, but to bring that up, is well... silly.

Fair enough, I didn't dig deep enough. He still didn't exactly light up a horrible team.

The bottom line is kartr likes to claim that Q led the Jets to the playoffs and they haven't been good since he left. That simply is a false statement that is so ludicrous I finally had enough.

to the forum.

 

[Hostile]

we really need a .gif file that has a guy come to the screen and then hold up a sign that says "don't P.O. Hos..."

I wasn't POed really. I just think there comes a time to put up or shut up. He'll have no response and in a week or so will post the same drivel and I'll shoot it down again. And again he won't respond.

No sack.

 

[Mash]

The Bottom line is.....QC played well for us....and showed promise....he had his moments and he also had his share of bone headed plays....yes the defence was solid....but QC...was the QB...touched the ball every single play...he does deserve some credit.....especially the situation he was put in.

I enjoyed watching him...more so then Vinny and Drew....and IMHO....he played better then both with less talent around him...

As a football player....he has NFL talent.....now because he was cut by a CFL team....some conclude that he isn't NFL material....hmmm....last I checked Ricky Williams has done squat there playing yet he was a pro-bowler here in the NFL....

Carter issues was drugs and lack of confidence to deal with competition...IMHO....alot of players have smoked weed.....Step...our all-pro center is a advocate now of pot and smoked it after games....Irvin...and other did the same...yet....we call Carter "pot head"....yet....these other players are forgiven......why?.....because they helped us win a SB?....

 

[Doomsday101]

The Bottom line is.....QC played well for us....and showed promise....he had his moments and he also had his share of bone headed plays....yes the defence was solid....but QC...was the QB...touched the ball every single play...he does deserve some credit.....especially the situation he was put in.

I enjoyed watching him...more so then Vinny and Drew....and IMHO....he played better then both with less talent around him...

As a football player....he has NFL talent.....now because he was cut by a CFL team....some conclude that he isn't NFL material....hmmm....last I checked Ricky Williams has done squat there playing yet he was a pro-bowler here in the NFL....

Carter issues was drugs and lack of confidence to deal with competition...IMHO....alot of players have smoked weed.....Step...our all-pro center is a advocate now of pot and smoked it after games....Irvin...and other did the same...yet....we call Carter "pot head"....yet....these other players are forgiven......why?.....because they helped us win a SB?....

And drug killed the team of the 90's as many were getting into trouble and cost the life of Tuinie. You can give Carter every excuse in the world but teams in the NFL do not want druggies at QB the one position that holds leadership over all other position. Carter can't be counted on no one knows from one day to the next if will pass a drug test and teams are not going to put up with it. His talent was average to below average which is a big reason he has not been picked up by any team and was cut from the CFL which by the way has no drug policy. That should tell you it is not just what some of us think about Carter but what football people who do this for a living think of Carter.

 

[dboyz]

Dallas was only crushed in two games that season. It occurred in back to back games starting at home on Thanksgiving to Miami and then at Philly. And Miami was not an elite team. Jay Feidler just played out of his mind. He obviously does not normally play at that level.

Dallas was in every other game that season and that was mostly due to the defensive effort. Even in the two shutout losses at Tampa and at New England, the defense kept the games close. If the offense could have done anything they may have pulled out victories. Too many turnovers lost those games also put the defense in bad positions, but the scores were only 16-0 and 12-0.

Good points. I may have overstated it a little bit. We also got beat 29-10 in the wildcard round of the playoffs, so I think it's fair to say we were not an elite team.

You're right the 16-0 and 12-0 games, I suppose it is not fair to say we were crushed, but our offense was crushed. You are correct in saying that our defense kept us in those games. That's absolutely right. And the overall point I was trying to make is that Quincy Carter was not the savior for 2003 (as some are trying to say). He did some good things, but our defense was more important. Those games against good teams show that. Our offense wasn't good enough.

 

[DIAF]

QC pulls out that game:laugh1:

You conveniently forget that the Giants were up by three with what 10 seconds left... they kicked off out of bounds, QC threw one deep out, and Billy Cundiff kicked the FG to get us into OT where he kicked another.

In fact Cundiff kicked 5 FGs. If anyone was MVP of that game, it was split between the Giants kicker and Cundiff. Sorry Hos

No no, QC pulled that game out. He played great minus that early INT. How do you think we got in position to kick those last two FGs?

The problem is, QC was only a very good player in those kinds of situations. If he wasn't leading a comeback, he was only "meh" as a QB. There are certain guys who just have a light that goes off when their teams are down. Quincy is one of those guys. It's just too bad that for the rest of the game he was average on his best day.

 

[Hostile]

The Bottom line is.....QC played well for us....and showed promise....he had his moments and he also had his share of bone headed plays....yes the defence was solid....but QC...was the QB...touched the ball every single play...he does deserve some credit.....especially the situation he was put in.

I enjoyed watching him...more so then Vinny and Drew....and IMHO....he played better then both with less talent around him...

As a football player....he has NFL talent.....now because he was cut by a CFL team....some conclude that he isn't NFL material....hmmm....last I checked Ricky Williams has done squat there playing yet he was a pro-bowler here in the NFL....

Carter issues was drugs and lack of confidence to deal with competition...IMHO....alot of players have smoked weed.....Step...our all-pro center is a advocate now of pot and smoked it after games....Irvin...and other did the same...yet....we call Carter "pot head"....yet....these other players are forgiven......why?.....because they helped us win a SB?....

Mash, not a bad post, but I have some issues with you on some of this.

The fact that some others players have smoked weed or still do isn't a noble thing. It's a travesty. I'm not talking about a moralistic or legal view here, I'm talking about the consequences to their team.

I don't see people here celebrating Irvin's drug use. It insults many of us. Do you see any of us applauding Step?

So don't be all offended if some aren't appreciative of Carter for doing drugs. I don't even appreciate when a player gets a DUI. I find it dumb to risk your career and jeopardize other's lives.

That seems to be escaping you. We're not celebrating the drug abuse of others and denegrating Q for his. There's no hypocrisy that you just accused us of.

Lastly, I've never said much about Q's drug use as a judgment on him other than that I hope he defeats his demons.

I don't think he was a starting quality QB and I wanted better. I think I've said the same thing in 2004, 2005, and 2006 when he hasn't been on this team. How come you haven't had issues with that? I don't remember even one time. I don't remember it about any other position either. Like when I say I hate kickers.

If you were in my shoes wouldn't that seem overly touchy to you?

 

[eduncan22]

It shameful the way Jerry and BP treated this guy.

Has Q been suspended by the NFL?

Did he fail a drug test? Who said that he did? BP or Jerry? Rumors? If he was suspended by the NFL, why did he play for the Jets the same year?

Irvin nearly goes to jail and he was never "Fired" the way Quincy was.

 

[superpunk]

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Dallas was only crushed in two games that season. It occurred in back to back games starting at home on Thanksgiving to Miami and then at Philly. And Miami was not an elite team. Jay Feidler just played out of his mind. He obviously does not normally play at that level.

Dallas was in every other game that season and that was mostly due to the defensive effort. Even in the two shutout losses at Tampa and at New England, the defense kept the games close. If the offense could have done anything they may have pulled out victories. Too many turnovers lost those games also put the defense in bad positions, but the scores were only 16-0 and 12-0.

Yep, Jay Feilder made his first start after after being injured. And that Miami team was extremely good that year, they just had the unfortunate luck of playing in the AFC, where a 10-6 record didnt get you into the Playoffs. At another All-Team board I use to post at, the Miami fans were PO'ed that they crushed us on TG but we got into the playoffs with the same record as they ended up with.

Also that game, most of our Secondary struggled playing zone defense (especially Roy Williams). Throughout most of the year, we blitzed heavily and played man coverage. But since the Dolphins had so much firepower on offense, Zimmer decided to go zone and we got destroyed.

- Mike G.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

It shameful the way Jerry and BP treated this guy.

Has Q been suspended by the NFL?

Did he fail a drug test? Who said that he did? BP or Jerry? Rumors? If he was suspended by the NFL, why did he play for the Jets the same year?

Irvin nearly goes to jail and he was never "Fired" the way Quincy was.

Actually, Jerry treated Quincy Carter very good while in Dallas. Jerry was the one that reached for Carter in the 2nd Round (a friend at work told me that Jerry thought the Raiders were going to nab him, dont know about).

Jerry talked about how Quincy had talent that may not come again in years...if even.

Jerry even drafted the guy even when he knew he was going to enter the league in the Substance Abusve Program.

No, Jerry was very loyal to Quincy Carter.

And Bill Parcells could have easily cut Quincy before the 2003 season, which everyone at least the Metroplex thought was a foregone conclusion.

- Mike G.

 

[Hostile]

It shameful the way Jerry and BP treated this guy..

I don't know why I am answering you since you didn't answer me, but I just can't help it. This is crap.

The way they treated him? You mean the way they drafted him, signed him to an NFL contract paying hundreds of thousands of dollars and twice named him the starting QB of the Dallas Cowboys?

Yeah they really stabbed him in the back.

How about some condemnation for the way he treated the Dallas Cowboys and their fans by using drugs?

Has Q been suspended by the NFL?

Per joseephus yesterday he was fined 4 game checks. There is speculation prevalent that when he signs with an NFL, if he ever does again, that he will immediately be suspended for 4 games. He has not denied this though he says he cannot talk about it.

Did he fail a drug test? Who said that he did? BP or Jerry? Rumors? If he was suspended by the NFL, why did he play for the Jets the same year?

If you read the recap in this thread on page 1, yeah, he has admitted that he failed a drug test. It has been widely reported that he has admitted himself to drug centers. I doubt that was for an addiction to Snickers bars.

Irvin nearly goes to jail and he was never "Fired" the way Quincy was.

Which as I've alredy said proves he was waived because of his talent level not drug use. Some of you guys want me to believe it was becaus eof drugs. Not you, you deny that it looks like.

We waived a starting QB who was not going to miss any games, but we are hanging on to a backup Free safety? Naw, that doesn't add up.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

:laugh2: @ Superpunk...the HOFF pic is just disturbing.

 

[Derinyar]

It shameful the way Jerry and BP treated this guy.

Has Q been suspended by the NFL?

Did he fail a drug test? Who said that he did? BP or Jerry? Rumors? If he was suspended by the NFL, why did he play for the Jets the same year?

Irvin nearly goes to jail and he was never "Fired" the way Quincy was.

The amount of crap that you can get away with is tied to the level of your talent. Quincy's crap level has exceeded his talent level twice in the NFL. I doubt hes going to get a third shot at it in the NFL.

Irvin had more talent that Quincy. He most likely wouldn't have survived another drug problem and still been a member of the team. But you can live through a WR getting suspended, its much much harder to survive having your starting QB suspended. You almost never hear of a starting QB getting a drug suspension, for what ever reason.

 

[kartr]

You're correct, I didn't report it in March when I was told. Why not? Holy cow what would the reaction have been? I'd have been denegrating a deity. It's 2 years later and look how you're reacting to this.

I shared the information when I got it with another poster. As I said, it's his call if he wants to verify that or not. There were 2 QBs talked about to bring in and be the guy, the other signed with another team. They then waited for Vinny. I've shared this same info several times since then. This thread isn't the first time.

I asked you to simply put 2 and 2 together and I presented to you plenty of circumstantial evidence to back it up. For example...

Bill's 3 year rule.
Henson being Jerry's guy.
Vinny being Bill's guy.
Them not wanting to get rid of Romo.
The restrictions of the CBA precluding Jerry from notifying Bill of a failed drug test.
Bill & Jerry both maintaining it had nothing to do with that positive test.

You don't need to believe me. Does it pass the smell test? That's all I ask you to consider. Forget my "source" for a minute and look at those factors alone.

You're trying to tell me there was a conspiracy to eliminate him based on a failed marijuana test. How on earth can you buy that? That doesn't pass the smell test. In every other case of a drug suspension on this team the player has come back to contribute. Why not this one guy, the starting QB for crying out loud? Why is he different? Over weed? The starting QB. The most important position on the field. He was good enough, but the weed did him in?

Come on man, how naive are you? Irvin came back from a suspension for coke, but this guy gets waived for weed?

Yeah, it has nothing whatsoever to do with his talent level, or his grasp of the game, or Bill's 3 year rule. Bill loved the guy, but he couldn't have weed on his team.

Lawrence Taylor, Lawrence Taylor, Lawrence Taylor...

But his waiver isn't about his talent level?

You do realize that it was either him or Romo that would have been released in 2004 right? From where I sit they made the right choice.

Like I said before, believe whatever you want, but sell it to someone who the synapses don't fire for. The team did in fact report that he was being waived because of his "performance." So don't tell me that "fact" was never reported on this forum or anywhere else. I guess you didn't witness that or you think the management of your team are a bunch of liars.

How convenient, and how incredibly sad.

You've confirmed everything I suspected except for one thing. Henson and Romo weren't ready to play at all in 2004, so how could their performances been better than his, one week into training camp. Henson was just re-learning football. Vinny's numbers weren't any better than Carter's and going up against weaker defenses in 2004 than in 2003 proved that. Carter had a 98 qb rating with the Jets in 2004 despite not knowing the offense. Sounds like Bill and Jerry dropped the ball on this one. As for Q's reliability. He has never been suspended by the league and has been available to play every game of every season he played. So the arguments against him are all bogus as usual and the fact that so many hate him in spite of the fact that he has been the only qb we've made the playoffs with says more about them than him.

As for this reliability crap. Andrew Walters doesn't have a drug issue and is available to play every week, yet the Raiders, as well as a whole host of teams with qb problems go with those qb's every week, when they'd be better served giving Carter a chance to save their seasons. Mariuchi didn't figure that out and where is he now. Herm Edwards saved his bacon by bringing in Q for year. Maybe these NFL coaches could learn that a 'problematic qb' is better than no qb at all.

 

[superpunk]

:laugh2: @ Superpunk...the HOFF pic is just disturbing.

Not even Hoff was disturbing enough to end this thread, though.

 

[kartr]

Q was cut because he showed himself to be unreliable. Simple as that.

He's more reliable than Bledsoe or Romo as I've said all along, plus Vinny too.

No one here can give a reason other than the loss of Q is why this team has lost more games than it has won, since he left.

 

[eduncan22]

Why cant Jerry and BP just come out tell us the real reason they cut Q?

 

[kartr]

Beat the over under.

Carter made his bed, he isn't coming back here. Can't imagine any circumstance where that would happen. And that is all I am concerned about.

My understanding is that teams were informed that if they signed Carter he would have to serve a 4 game suspension immediately. So he really wouldn't be much help even as a backup.

It also is my understanding that if he was out of the league a certain amount of time, he would not have to serve a suspension. I don't know how long that would be. And I am not 100% sure that this is true. I do remember there being an article on it at the time.

Carter had enough physical talent, and I have no doubt his arm was stronger than Romo's. I think if he had been able to sit for a few years and learn behind a vet QB he might have been a decent QB. The Romo plan would have been good for Carter also. The thing is, I don't think Quincy was exceptional in any aspect, and I think his decision making was going to be suspect for his entire career, not matter how long that was. Romo has a quick release, and it seems like he reads the defense well and very quickly.

Carter is a sidenote in the history of the Cowboys and hopefully someday will be remembered about as much as the "Babe's" stint as Cowboys QB.

You're kidding right, the Babe lasted only a few games. Carter had victories over first round qb's even as a rookie. Romo is in his 4th year and Bill still isn't sure about him. He knew from the start that Quincy could lead this team. He could have brought Griese in if he had any doubts in '03. Turns out that installing Q as the starter was one of the few things he's done right.