CFZ Hoping for Doomsday IV

[Bobhaze]

I wouldn’t define winning our division in back to back seasons as “ historic “. It’s been done many times . Just not in recent years.

Yeah, “just not in recent years” means history. Which when that changes, it would be “historic”….at least to me

 

[Pass2Run]

lol who the heck felt like the defense was gonna dominate before 2021?

Besides the 2007ish Parcells defenses, this franchise has largely ignored defense post Jimmy Johnson. Heck, we just drafted our first DT since the 80’s. Our defense being good consistently is a very new feeling that got here when DQ did.

Very very few times in the last 20 years has it looked like the defense was about to dominate. Very few times.

We got kinda lucky lately, but I'll take it.

 

[Pass2Run]

I think Mazi will be that. I'm excited to watch him play, that said. I wouldn't say no to an upgrade over Hankins.

Upgrade Bohanna and Gallimore. Would be nice to have Watkins this year.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Upgrade Bohanna and Gallimore. Would be nice to have Watkins this year.

I'll second that. I think Gallimore actually might have some trade value, so I think trying to deal him for a 5th might not be bad. I'd then use that pick to try to make a deal for a 3T upgrade.

 

[sjmike]

They're not good enough along the DL to be in consideration.

Negative Nancy strikes again

 

[plasticman]

I think that long lasting dominant defenses may be a thing of the past due to free agency and salary caps.

While it's possible to maintain a strong defense for 3-4 seasons, it's only a matter of time when a team cannot afford to pay all the starters what they might be worth on the open market. When you look at that Cowboys defense in the early 90's, it's demise coincided with the introduction of a salary cap.

Jimmy Jones, Russel Maryland, Robert Jones, Godfrey Miles, Brock Marion, Larry Brown, Dave Thomas, Darrin Smith, and Ken Norton Jr. were all lost due to free agency and the salary cap.

Even today, when you consider the losses of players like Awuzie, Xavier Woods, Maliek Collins, Byron Jones, Damien Wilson and Anthony Hitchens, it is difficult to maintain a strong defense when you have to constantly resupply it through a draft.

Dominant past defenses such as the Doomsday, Purple People Eaters, No-Name, Fearsome Foursome, Orange Crush, and Steel Curtain were able to dominate for a decade because they didn't have to replenish their defenses to the degree that teams have to today.

The Cowboys of the late 70's also benefited from a surplus of talent by trading them in for premium draft picks. It is important to recognize that Doomsday II would not have existed without the trades that netted Too Tall Jones and Randy White, the #1 and #2 overall picks in their respected drafts.

That's not to say it's impossible and the Cowboys might be one of the very few teams that can maintain a strong defense due to the current success of the present personnel department. With that said, a team must also have a specific plan for the type of defense and players required. Today's teams must rely on early contributions from draft picks and they cannot be limited to only premium picks.

Players like DaRon Bland, Damone Clark, and Dorance Armstrong are steps in the right direction but the Cowboys cannot afford to neutralize their positive steps in the lower rounds with negative higher picks like Taco Charlton, Kelvin Joseph, and Trysten Hill.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yeah, “just not in recent years” means history. Which when that changes, it would be “historic”….at least to me

I hear ya . It’s definitely worth noting in history but historic to me would mean like it’s never happened. For an old fart like me 23 years isn’t very long. Lol

But if that’s your strongest argument in why you don’t think the Egirls repeat I’d argue is overly dramatic of such a mark. But that’s me.

And sorry , didn’t mean to derail your thread . I love these type of topics . Thanks

 

[Flamma]

I think we can call the 90’s defense Doomsday. At least early on . In 1992 Cowboys had the #1 Defense.

Maybe by the end of the season. Because early on was a little rough going. We had a 34-0 lead on the Giants. Only to have the Giants with the ball and a chance to take the lead late in the game. Then a week or two later we get blown out by the Eagles.

 

[ArtClink]

The 2023 version of the Cowboys are still three and a half months away from the regular testing ground. But already it’s easy to see why there’s a buzz about the potential for this defense. With the additions of Stephon Gilmore and Mazi Smith, and another year of maturation for Micah Parsons, it’s not hard to be enthused about the possibilities of a true top shelf defense.

Could we be looking at another “Doomsday Defense”? As in “Doomsday IV”? We will know if/when the following criteria, which all three prior versions of Doomsday D’s met:

• Winning an NFC championship
• Winning a SB
• Having at least 2 All Pros

With that criteria in mind, here are the prior gold standard Doomsday versions:

• Doomsday I- 1966-74– Won 2 NFC Championships and one Lombardi. Perennial All Pro and HOFer Bob Lily was the anchor along with All Pros and HOFers Mel Renfro, and Chuck Howley and All Pro Lee Roy Jordan. Lily retired in 74 and so did Jordan and Howley, brining the end of the first Doomsday unit.
• Doomsday II– 1975-82– Fueled by the great ‘75 “Dirty Dozen” draft, D-II won 3 NFC Championships, and a SB- this group was led by All Pros and HOFers Randy White and Cliff Harris, All Pro Harvey Martin, Pro Bowlers Too Tall Jones and Thomas “Hollywood“ Henderson.
• Doomsday III– 1991-1996– 3 NFC Championships, 3 Lombardis. Led by HOFers and All Pros Charles Hailey and Deion Sanders, AllPro Darren Woodson, Russell Maryland, SB 30 MVP Larry Brown, along with James Washington.

The revered and time honored “Doomsday” title must be earned. This year’s talented D could be the beginning of a “Doomsday IV“. But we should never use that title until they win a bunch of playoff games like their predecessors.

Here’s hoping we get a “Doomsday IV” back in Big D starting in 2023.

Some fans are always trying to force "Doomsday IV" on a defense that has feel short of fan expectations (i.e., a deep playoff run) but hope springs eternal!

 

[Risen Star]

The DTs have to step up to get near that comparison.

I don't think their DEs are good enough either unless Sam Williams breaks out like I don't expect him to.

 

[nalam]

Armstrong? Harper? Wut?

Armstrong improved last couple of years , ofcourse could be Micah effect , but he is better than deLaw at this point.

 

[Typhus]

Oh I see what he's doing, and the pieces we're getting. I'm hopeful. After all, he's the last one to have a truly elite defense in the last decade plus.

Q has been as influential as McClay
They both have been given the symbiotic approval from the FO.
We are witnessing a great defense being constructed.
Cowboys are going old school right under are noses, and many do not even recognize it yet.

 

[Diehardblues]

Maybe by the end of the season. Because early on was a little rough going. We had a 34-0 lead on the Giants. Only to have the Giants with the ball and a chance to take the lead late in the game. Then a week or two later we get blown out by the Eagles.

All we can do is measure them for their entire body of work.

 

[JonesBoys]

On paper, this is their best defense since 95. They have improved the last 2 years and now in year 3 with Quinn this defense looks ready to take another step. Can’t wait to see how they play.

 

[JonesBoys]

All we can do is measure them for their entire body of work.

It was the #1 defense in the league that year I believe. Every defense has some hiccups hell even the Bears 86 defense was beat pretty good by Miami on a Monday night game.,

 

[CCBoy]

Yeah, “just not in recent years” means history. Which when that changes, it would be “historic”….at least to me

In the history of the NFC East, winning the division has usually propelled that team strongly into the playoffs. As tough as the East is right now, expect this to be the rule again, now.

Anyone realize just how good Parsons is and also improving upon? And there is strong talent about him on defense.

Passing pressure means easier secondary/pass protection play.

 

[CCBoy]

All we can do is measure them for their entire body of work.

That applies to analysis of play. Not to direction and further growth.

 

[CCBoy]

Q has been as influential as McClay
They both have been given the symbiotic approval from the FO.
We are witnessing a great defense being constructed.
Cowboys are going old school right under are noses, and many do not even recognize it yet.

Jimmy Johnson needed two very strong coordinators to right his team's ship.

 

[CCBoy]

I don't think their DEs are good enough either unless Sam Williams breaks out like I don't expect him to.

Team wise, there will be no decline in it's production for this year...especially with certain roster improvements.

 

[CCBoy]

I think that long lasting dominant defenses may be a thing of the past due to free agency and salary caps.

While it's possible to maintain a strong defense for 3-4 seasons, it's only a matter of time when a team cannot afford to pay all the starters what they might be worth on the open market. When you look at that Cowboys defense in the early 90's, it's demise coincided with the introduction of a salary cap.

Jimmy Jones, Russel Maryland, Robert Jones, Godfrey Miles, Brock Marion, Larry Brown, Dave Thomas, Darrin Smith, and Ken Norton Jr. were all lost due to free agency and the salary cap.

Even today, when you consider the losses of players like Awuzie, Xavier Woods, Maliek Collins, Byron Jones, Damien Wilson and Anthony Hitchens, it is difficult to maintain a strong defense when you have to constantly resupply it through a draft.

Dominant past defenses such as the Doomsday, Purple People Eaters, No-Name, Fearsome Foursome, Orange Crush, and Steel Curtain were able to dominate for a decade because they didn't have to replenish their defenses to the degree that teams have to today.

The Cowboys of the late 70's also benefited from a surplus of talent by trading them in for premium draft picks. It is important to recognize that Doomsday II would not have existed without the trades that netted Too Tall Jones and Randy White, the #1 and #2 overall picks in their respected drafts.

That's not to say it's impossible and the Cowboys might be one of the very few teams that can maintain a strong defense due to the current success of the present personnel department. With that said, a team must also have a specific plan for the type of defense and players required. Today's teams must rely on early contributions from draft picks and they cannot be limited to only premium picks.

Players like DaRon Bland, Damone Clark, and Dorance Armstrong are steps in the right direction but the Cowboys cannot afford to neutralize their positive steps in the lower rounds with negative higher picks like Taco Charlton, Kelvin Joseph, and Trysten Hill.

Very good discussion. Thanks for opening points up.

The Cowboys were caught by the creation of free agency and the change of a salary cap...then, That coupled with star player injuries, but older players, hurt longevity during the five year dynasty then.

Today, Stephen has grudgingly held back until salary cap and it's projections remain a team strength and very flexible. Match this with long contracts for star players, and the media influxes in NFL league revenues makes this problem even more manageable from year to year. I can see a 5-8 year window of very competitive opportunity. Then the 'gods' of football have to be dealt with, and the importance of depth critical.

Dallas has pretty good depth, and is past having to invest in defensive end pressures and a rotation there. For now.

For now, fast is the adjective for the offense.