How bad are we going to be?

[Stash]

stash, you know I'm a generally positive guy. Even when I'm negative, I don't write of the season, I just hope that the trend we're seeing doesn't continue. But I can't tell you how frustrating this offseason has been for me as far as the front 7 are concerned. I knew we were going to be trotting out a dog's breakfast along the DL. At least I had expected the players we did have would be relatively young, relatively healthy, and we'd get the benefit of playing in the same system with what I think is a very good position coach for a few years. Throw in a couple reasonable VFA upgrades and we had a shot at a bunch of lunch pails who knew just what they were supposed to do. More talented teams would take advantage of them, sure, but we'd be getting our run fits right, we'd play with good discipline, we'd just get beat fairly often by better players, and our offense would have to keep pace for us to win our share of games.

The way it's played out, though, we didn't really get any of that. Freaking rookies are breaking feet. Veterans who shine in OTAs get high ankle sprains. Others are sidelined way too long with soft tissue injuries. The shots at bluebirds we had with Spencer and Okoye both missed. And we're heading into the real season with a damn hodgepodge again. It's so frustrating.

A DL of Spencer/Lawrence, Melton/Coleman, McClain/Brent, Crawford/Selvie I could actually live with.

That doesn't mean I'm packing in the season. It doesn't mean 'turn on the organization and complain before the games even start.' It just means it's unlikely we're going to see sound defensive football for at least the first half of the season. In a year when we really did try to simplify and set reasonable expectations. It reminds me of the season when we cleaned house on the OL and tried to start the three rookies (Smith, Costa, Nagy, Kowalski). And then we kept losing those young interior OLs to niggling injuries all season and they never really had a prayer. Sure, you're taking a big risk in going that thin. We all understand the reasons why we had to take such chances in the first place. But, if you're going to strip everything down and just try to play with some depth and coach up medicare talent, at least we should be able to catch a break and keep that mediocre talent on the field where we can coach it. Having it all sitting on the bench when we need to get better just drives me nuts.

You and me both!

I understand having to count on players with question marks, be they character, injury history, whatever. Every team does that to some degree.

But our situation and our choices have put us into position to do it way too often, to our undoing.

Crazy that we're in a position where we're counting on all of these question marks coming together just to give us a semblance of a defense!

If Spencer's healthy.
If Melton is recovered from his ACL and now the groin.
If McClain recovers in time from his ankle sprain.
If Selvie is ready for week one.
If and when Lawrence comes back healthy.
If Claiborne can bounce back (and stay healthy!)
If Rolando can get in shape and learn the defense
If Carter can play SLB
If someone can replace Scandrick for the first 4 weeks
If Wilcox improves


And that's not even all of 'em!

Just way too many questions left unanswered on an already very poor defense.

 

[Wolfpack]

I think this is a perfectly reasonable assessment.

Personally, I hate the fact that we're once again counting on a bunch of injured players and it's shaping up to be a repeat of last season.

Two weeks before the season and it seems like half of what was already a questionable-at-best defense is still totally unsettled.

HOPE. The official strategy of the Dallas Cowboys, brought to you by the Miller Light Pole dancers and Ford trucks.

They've literally done very little to address a huge broken defense (now) three years in a row. They just keep hoping to plug in some bodies and hope that someone will coach them up. Its really delusional thinking at this point.

 

[Wolfpack]

Okay, fine.

The team is going 19-0. Anyone who says differently is a quitter with a loser's mentality.

I am wearing my "Who's All In" shirt now, thanks for the rally!

 

[Doomsday101]

HOPE. The official strategy of the Dallas Cowboys, brought to you by the Miller Light Pole dancers and Ford trucks.

They've literally done very little to address a huge broken defense (now) three years in a row. They just keep hoping to plug in some bodies and hope that someone will coach them up. Its really delusional thinking at this point.

out of 9 draft picks 7 were on defense.

 

[Stash]

How so how is yours based on facts when last season defense with Ware was the worst in Cowboys history? It was not much better the year before. Hell I you could throw anyone out there and get the worst ever in team history and do so at a cheap price. So for all the money spent he and the defense did not do jack and your solution keep him?

My own solution goes beyond Demarcus Ware and cutting or keeping him. He, like many other players, was done in by an ill-advised defensive scheme change instituted by an idiot.

And now players like him, Carter, Claiborne, Carr and several others get criticized for struggling in a scheme they don't fit in.

The true crime around here lies in changing a scheme and keeping the same players and then having the nerve to wonder why or how they're struggling.

I'm not blaming Ware for anything I respect the fact he choose to do what was best for him and the Cowboys did what was best for the team.

Fair enough.

I don't think going after a 27 year old FA and drafting a DE in the 2nd is all that half hearted and in the meantime they have done good about getting the cap back in order.

When an entire defense needs to be rebuilt? I do.

I don't expect a top 10 defense I do expect better than last year for those who don't fine but telling me we got rid of Ware how can it be better all I can say is Worst defensive in Cowboys history

Sorry, but the 'nowhere to go but up' thing is weak. Their ranking might not be able to be any worse than last, but there's no limit on how bad their performance can be.

And all visible indications show that it can be even worse.

 

[Stash]

HOPE. The official strategy of the Dallas Cowboys, brought to you by the Miller Light Pole dancers and Ford trucks.

They've literally done very little to address a huge broken defense (now) three years in a row. They just keep hoping to plug in some bodies and hope that someone will coach them up. Its really delusional thinking at this point.

Yeah, but wait'll you get a load of that backup TE, #4 or #5 receiver and the third string running back!

 

[Idgit]

HOPE. The official strategy of the Dallas Cowboys, brought to you by the Miller Light Pole dancers and Ford trucks.

They've literally done very little to address a huge broken defense (now) three years in a row. They just keep hoping to plug in some bodies and hope that someone will coach them up. Its really delusional thinking at this point.

I don't think they're just hoping. The draft broke poorly for them each of the last two years, and then from stash's litany above it's pretty clear where the setbacks have occurred. You can't look at Melton on the bench or Lawrence breaking a foot and fairly say they were just hoping in those cases.

 

[Doomsday101]

My own solution goes beyond Demarcus Ware and cutting or keeping him. He, like many other players, was done in by an ill-advised defensive scheme change instituted by an idiot.

And now players like him, Carter, Claiborne, Carr and several others get criticized for struggling in a scheme they don't fit in.

The true crime around here lies in changing a scheme and keeping the same players and then having the nerve to wonder why or how they're struggling.



Fair enough.



When an entire defense needs to be rebuilt? I do.



Sorry, but the 'nowhere to go but up' thing is weak. Their ranking might not be able to be any worse than last, but there's no limit on how bad their performance can be.

And all visible indications show that it can be even worse.

I don't think Rod Marinelli is an idiot I think he is pretty well respected in the league. I think Marinelli does and will make changes within his defense and believe it or not players have to work and learn to adapt as well.

As far as stats I don't care about yards and crap like that defense main objective keep the other team out of the endzone. Last year they gave up 27 points a game I expect better than that.

 

[DallasEast]

Doesn't matter. I am still going to opener against the 49ers!.

+1

 

[DallasEast]

Let us not beat around the bush here. We have been a mediocre team that has regressed while most of the league has gotten better. Even if you are just standing still, the rest of the league will pass you by. And we have been going backwards.

So, how bad are we going to be? I think 4 to 5 wins tops. I think the team will play hard for the coach. I think Romo is past his prime, can't move like he once did and is no longer a top tier quarterback. I think the defense will be horrible, albiet probably not as statistically as bad as last year, because the offense wont force our opponents to attack us as much to beat us.

I think Garrett is gone after this year. I think our scouting department, however, is one of our real weaknesses, but our owner continues to trust the same old geezers hes had for 100 years.

Speaking of our owner, I think he is entering senility. Not to be harsh, but I expect decisions to get worse from here on out. I think Jerry as to the point where he is ok with losing, as long as the franchise becomes more valuable. Hes happy with his investment. But all the testosterone and vitality that led to those 90s championships, that is all gone now.

Stephen is a muppet of his father, so I don't see much changing there. Even when Jerry passes, Stephen will run the team in the same, "owner knows best," philosophy.

I know this thread seems harsh. But, Im not complaining actually. I am also not going to stop being a fan. I am just resolved to the fact that there is a decent chance the Cowboys won't win another championship in the next 20 years. Seriously.

lmao.

What's the record for number of pages generated by a Rant Zone thread occupying the Fan Zone?

 

[Wolfpack]

I don't think they're just hoping. The draft broke poorly for them each of the last two years, and then from stash's litany above it's pretty clear where the setbacks have occurred. You can't look at Melton on the bench or Lawrence breaking a foot and fairly say they were just hoping in those cases.

I dont agree. Melton came cheap with a major injury (see any patterns here?) so they are hoping he can play at a average or better level but they don't know that.. Lawrence is a 2nd rd rookie and the only option they had (which they paid for), and all rookies tend to offer only limited production their 1st year. Smells of panic to me as does the lowball offers prior to the draft. If you think that is a grand strategic plan, then thats cool too.

 

[Stash]

I don't think Rod Marinelli is an idiot I think he is pretty well respected in the league. I think Marinelli does and will make changes within his defense and believe it or not players have to work and learn to adapt as well.

The idiot I'm referring to is either Garrett or Jerry Jones, whomever mandated the change from the 3-4 to this current mess.

And Marinelli's scheme is predicated by having a strong defensive line, which he doesn't have. Not close.

As far as stats I don't care about yards and crap like that defense main objective keep the other team out of the endzone. Last year they gave up 27 points a game I expect better than that.

And you 'expect' that based on what tangible areas of improvement? Other than hopes and wants?

 

[Idgit]

I dont agree. Melton came cheap with a major injury (see any patterns here?) so they are hoping he can play at a average or better level but they don't know that.. Lawrence is a 2nd rd rookie and the only option they had (which they paid for), and all rookies tend to offer only limited production their 1st year. Smells of panic to me as does the lowball offers prior to the draft. If you think that is a grand strategic plan, then thats cool too.

We don't have to agree.

I remember a point in the off-season when I suggested Melton might be a realistic target for us in replacing Rat that many thought that was an absolute unaffordable pipe dream. I don't see how it can be characterized as desperation after the fact. That was just a straight-up good signing. Lawrence is a good player, also not a panic pick in any way. So, yeah, I do think both moves are obviously part of the overall plan. Honestly, I think you have to have a fairly significant agenda against anything the organization does to believe otherwise in these cases, but that's just me.

 

[Doomsday101]

The idiot I'm referring to is either Garrett or Jerry Jones, whomever mandated the change from the 3-4 to this current mess.

And Marinelli's scheme is predicated by having a strong defensive line, which he doesn't have. Not close.



And you 'expect' that based on what tangible areas of improvement? Other than hopes and wants?

and last years unit did what? Nothing. I do trust Marinelli that he knows what he is doing and while all parts may not be there and a reason I have never predicted this as a top 10 defense I do think these guys will come together and produce better than last years group which as I have said many time saw players signed on Monday and playing the following sunday I don't think that will be the case this year. As for guys like Claiborne and Carr Yes I think they will bounce back and I think 2nd season for Wilcox will show improvement in the secondary. I do expect in the early going this defense will struggle and make mistake but I also think they have a DC who can adjust and help guys learn from mistakes.

 

[TNCowboy]

4-12. This is easily the worst team we've had in years. If everyone stayed relatively healthy, another 8-8 might be remotely possible, but the roster is extraordinarily thin so as the season wears on the wins will be few and far between.

 

[TheDude]

Is there a good way to post a scrollable excel sheet. I logged everyones picks

Mean W/L= 6.8-9.2
Median = 7-9
Mode = 8-8

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Let us not beat around the bush here. We have been a mediocre team that has regressed while most of the league has gotten better. Even if you are just standing still, the rest of the league will pass you by. And we have been going backwards.

So, how bad are we going to be? I think 4 to 5 wins tops. I think the team will play hard for the coach. I think Romo is past his prime, can't move like he once did and is no longer a top tier quarterback. I think the defense will be horrible, albiet probably not as statistically as bad as last year, because the offense wont force our opponents to attack us as much to beat us.

I think Garrett is gone after this year. I think our scouting department, however, is one of our real weaknesses, but our owner continues to trust the same old geezers hes had for 100 years.

Speaking of our owner, I think he is entering senility. Not to be harsh, but I expect decisions to get worse from here on out. I think Jerry as to the point where he is ok with losing, as long as the franchise becomes more valuable. Hes happy with his investment. But all the testosterone and vitality that led to those 90s championships, that is all gone now.

Stephen is a muppet of his father, so I don't see much changing there. Even when Jerry passes, Stephen will run the team in the same, "owner knows best," philosophy.

I know this thread seems harsh. But, Im not complaining actually. I am also not going to stop being a fan. I am just resolved to the fact that there is a decent chance the Cowboys won't win another championship in the next 20 years. Seriously.

You are correct about our milktoast HC.
Garrett might be smart but he is no motivator. He does not inspire ANY fear in any player. And fear, I am sure, is a motivator, just like respect.

Jason Garrett would be a great TV analyst because he'd half a lot of good things to say about athletes and never -- EVER -- anything negative.
That is why the Cowboys think they are good and perpetually underachieve.
Time to move on from this gentle, football analyst who was a born cliche master with no real fire in the belly.

 

[Stash]

and last years unit did what? Nothing.

Not in dispute. Never contested. But that in no way means that this year's unit somehow must be better.

I do trust Marinelli that he knows what he is doing and while all parts may not be there and a reason I have never predicted this as a top 10 defense I do think these guys will come together and produce better than last years group which as I have said many time saw players signed on Monday and playing the following sunday I don't think that will be the case this year.

It seems like that may be blind trust, not based on what is tangible.

I see that being the case already! We have no good idea of who is even starting on this defense with the season less than two weeks away!

As for guys like Claiborne and Carr Yes I think they will bounce back and I think 2nd season for Wilcox will show improvement in the secondary. I do expect in the early going this defense will struggle and make mistake but I also think they have a DC who can adjust and help guys learn from mistakes.

Not trying to sound negative or insulting, but I see a lot of wishes, hopes, and expectations on your part here.

With little in the way of reality supporting it.

 

[Doomsday101]

Not in dispute. Never contested. But that in no way means that this year's unit somehow must be better.



It seems like that may be blind trust, not based on what is tangible.

I see that being the case already! We have no good idea of who is even starting on this defense with the season less than two weeks away!



Not trying to sound negative or insulting, but I see a lot of wishes, hopes, and expectations on your part here.

With little in the way of reality supporting it.

And you are giving expectation just negative since until they actually play it is a guess by both of us. I think we can both agree this is not going to be a league leading defense only part we disagree on is I think this unit will show themselves as better than the worst defense in Cowboys history that played last season. I don't expect this defense to be great I think they will struggle but I also think they will do better than last year. I think there will be more stability within the group as opposed to last season. I think some guys coming off a bad year are looking to turn their own performances around and I expect to see them do so. I don't think claiming this unit will be better than last season is a stretch I think it is quite possible and yes I expect them to do so. As I mention earlier, I don’t care about yards given up, I don’t care if were we rank sack wise what I do care about is the defense giving up fewer points than the 27 a game avg they gave up last season. Cowboys will not be able to rely on a star player on defense to make things happen they will have to play as a single unit to get it done. I think Rod can get them to do so.

 

[Ratmatt]

I think anywhere from 5-11 to 8-8