How bad are we going to be?

[Doomsday101]

Just make sure you factor in no viable replacement into the equation, because that's what we're dealing with.

And before you place all the blame for the situation on Ware, remember whose son worked on Ware's deal and pushed money forward until it became unmanageable.

right now yes the loss of Lawrence hurt, hopefully he can get back soon but in the end Dallas could continue to pay big money and not get production again something many here have screamed and moaned about. It is like hell if you do and hell if you don't. Same thing with Hatcher people complained over and over then Hatch goes out and has a good year and he is irreplaceable? Last I saw he was getting his knee scoped and is out. I also think we have some other young players entering their 2nd and 3rd year that people have given up on just like they gave up on Scandrick at one point and Hatcher.
As for Stephen deal with Ware yes he did right by Ware he paid very good money to what was a very good player, Dallas did not try to low ball him they stepped up and paid him as a top defensive player. I don't blame Ware for making a business decision nor do I blame the Cowboys for moving on.

 

[Stash]

right now yes the loss of Lawrence hurt, hopefully he can get back soon but in the end Dallas could continue to pay big money and not get production again something many here have screamed and moaned about. It is like hell if you do and hell if you don't.

You're right, it is. But the team is every single bit as responsible for all of it as Ware and his injuries were. The sins of the past came back to bite "Daddy's little cap guru" while he continued to profess that "we can do anything we want".

Same thing with Hatcher people complained over and over then Hatch goes out and has a good year and he is irreplaceable? Last I saw he was getting his knee scoped and is out.

I think that info is out of date, I believe he had a sack in their game the other night. But, there's a case where I'm glad they DIDN'T pay.

I also think we have some other young players entering their 2nd and 3rd year that people have given up on just like they gave up on Scandrick at one point and Hatcher.

The only one that comes to mind is Crawford. A guy who, for me, they've crowned as this 'jack of all trades' who looks like a 'master of none'.

As for Stephen deal with Ware yes he did right by Ware he paid very good money to what was a very good player, Dallas did not try to low ball him they stepped up and paid him as a top defensive player. I don't blame Ware for making a business decision nor do I blame the Cowboys for moving on.

And I believe that deal was re-worked resulting in an even bigger cap hit coming due.

Again, sins of the past.

 

[birdwells1]

Really hard to say, but I assume in the 7-9 to 9-7 range.
I'll make a guess before the 1st game to "go on record". Just so we can look back.

I'm writing down all of these predictions with names and numbers so we have a record.

Shocking how many 4-12 to 6-10 range guesses.
That schedule does look pretty nasty.

Yeah the schedule and defense are the reasons I think 6-10. I dont think that we go 5-1 in the division this year.

 

[Doomsday101]

You're right, it is. But the team is every single bit as responsible for all of it as Ware and his injuries were. The sins of the past came back to bite "Daddy's little cap guru" while he continued to profess that "we can do anything we want".




I think that info is out of date, I believe he had a sack in their game the other night. But, there's a case where I'm glad they DIDN'T pay.



The only one that comes to mind is Crawford. A guy who, for me, they've crowned as this 'jack of all trades' who looks like a 'master of none'.



And I believe that deal was re-worked resulting in an even bigger cap hit coming due.

Again, sins of the past.

so you correct the sins of the past by continuing to do the same thing? If Ware goes down as he has the last 2 year the same people then scream about Dallas should have released him. Again damned if they do and damned if they don't.

As for my comment Dallas D can be better than last year or the year before yes I think they can, I like the fact we have a lot of young guys some as I said entering their 2nd and 3rd year and 2nd season within the current scheme. I expect mistakes and growing pains I also expect this unit to improve as they move on within the season. As opposed to saying with old guys who where faltering towards the tail end of the season

 

[StevenOtero]

Most are expecting us to be crap, this is one of those years where we end up winning.

 

[Idgit]

I don't like the prediction game, because the difference between 11-5 and 5-11 is going to come down to a dozen or so plays anyway, and so many of them are affected by injuries to everybody that haven't even occurred yet (or in the Rams case, have just occurred), but I will say that I'm less enthusiastic about this season than I have been in years. That doesn't mean that there aren't enough variables at play with our defense that we might not end up pleasantly surprised. We'll be strong offensively and on ST.

As for the schedule, I never read into that one way or another. One, the rest of the NFCE has a similar schedule every year, and that tends to even things out. Two, you never know who's going to end up surprisingly good and who's going to end up surprisingly bad, but you do know that it happens with some regularity.

I do know that, of the NFCE teams, I only like the Eagles' chances better than ours, and theirs by not much.

 

[birdwells1]

Yeah, I guess I am.

The only team I think we can beat in the NFC West is the now Bradford-less Rams. And that one is still a maybe.

Bears? Didn't we see enough last year? With a backup QB? When our team quit?

And no, I don't see us beating the Colts either. When backups can shred this defense imagine what Luck will do.

Texans, Jags, sure. But I don't see us beating the Eagles and maybe we'll split with NY and Washington.

A win against the Titans gives us the 5 I predicted.

Sorry, but that's how I see it.

That Texans game will be a tough one.

 

[Stash]

so you correct the sins of the past by continuing to do the same thing? If Ware goes down as he has the last 2 year the same people then scream about Dallas should have released him. Again damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Doesn't that same fear exist with any player? Especially those who haven't actually done anything in this league yet are still kept around?

I've seen bad management cost this team time and time and time again. Be it poor cap management, poor roster management, or no clear long-term goal of what they want to accomplish.

As for my comment Dallas D can be better than last year or the year before yes I think they can, I like the fact we have a lot of young guys some as I said entering their 2nd and 3rd year and 2nd season within the current scheme. I expect mistakes and growing pains I also expect this unit to improve as they move on within the season. As opposed to saying with old guys who where faltering towards the tail end of the season

'Thinking' and 'expecting' are fine things, but at this point, looking at this roster, there are no viable options in place.

For me, this thing is shaping up like the Titanic.

An outdated scheme coached by aging coaches with key missing pieces and miscast players.

A recipe for disaster, much like we saw last year.

The bend AND break defense.

 

[Idgit]

That Texans game will be a tough one.

Because of the outside pressure? Looking forward to watching that one. Beyond that, though, I think that Texans team is not going to end up being very good at all this season. We'll soon see.

 

[Doomsday101]

Doesn't that same fear exist with any player? Especially those who haven't actually done anything in this league yet are still kept around?

I've seen bad management cost this team time and time and time again. Be it poor cap management, poor roster management, or no clear long-term goal of what they want to accomplish.



'Thinking' and 'expecting' are fine things, but at this point, looking at this roster, there are no viable options in place.

For me, this thing is shaping up like the Titanic.

An outdated scheme coached by aging coaches with key missing pieces and miscast players.

A recipe for disaster, much like we saw last year.

The bend AND break defense.

Fact is neither one of us know how this defense will perform. Dallas went from an aging line with Ware, Hatcher and Ratliff and are trying to rebuild the DL. You are not going to do that with Ware eating up a big chunk of that. Blame Stephen and jerry all you want I don't care but in the end Ware was not willing to take a cut and Dallas released and should have. His play has not been that good that is fact. You say Dallas has no long term goal I disagree I think their goal at this point is to rebuild the defense but you are not going to do it by keeping the same high price players

 

[theSHOW]

Please.

You're going to attempt to bait me into a one-sided bet which requires only one of us to back up our claims?

I don't think so.

You want to make a fair bet? Fine.

You want one where only one of us assumes risk?

Find another sucker.

lol

 

[Idgit]

Fact is neither one of us know how this defense will perform. Dallas went from an aging line with Ware, Hatcher and Ratliff and are trying to rebuild the DL. You are not going to do that with Ware eating up a big chunk of that. Blame Stephen and jerry all you want I don't care but in the end Ware was not willing to take a cut and Dallas released and should have. His play has not been that good that is fact. You say Dallas has no long term goal I disagree I think their goal at this point is to rebuild the defense but you are not going to do it by keeping the same high price players

It's true we don't know how the defense will perform. We can make a pretty good guess has to how it's likely to perform, though. At least out of the gate.

I'd feel a lot better about the front 7 if we'd seen anything at all from Melton and McClain this preseason. That's such a giant question mark where we're getting bullied right now in exhibition. Having Lawrence available, or Spencer having played some time in pads, or Brent actually available and in the lineup would have me feeling a lot better, too. As it is, we've got a chance that these guys can come back and contribute, but missing all of camp and not being in football shape and not being even reinstated yet in Brent's case, it's foolish to count on them having a big contribution.

I'm afraid what we're going to see on defense is going to be bad, with a chance of getting a lot better. And by 'a lot better,' I mean 'mediocre.
The good news is we will be good on offense and will probably be good on special teams, too. We can win some games with a bad defense.

 

[Dodger12]

LOL, not sure if you are serious or not, do you really think that's what I meant...

Let me clarify....quit on the season as to having any chance of winning.
Is that understandable?

Yeah, I get it. I'm just not sure what that even means when a fan "quits." Most fans will root for their team week in and week out. I know you and others may not believe that but it's true. Whether a fan predicts 6 wins or 12 wins has no bearing on the team. If I don't expect us to win the SB have I technically quit on the team?

 

[Stash]

Fact is neither one of us know how this defense will perform.

No, but at least my position has facts rather than hopes backing it up. Fact is that the league's worst defense lost its' three best performers. That doesn't up to improving on any level.

Dallas went from an aging line with Ware, Hatcher and Ratliff and are trying to rebuild the DL. You are not going to do that with Ware eating up a big chunk of that.

How exactly did they 'rebuild'? With castoffs and guys that either WERE hurt or ARE hurt. Not a great plan.

Blame Stephen and jerry all you want I don't care but in the end Ware was not willing to take a cut and Dallas released and should have. His play has not been that good that is fact.

Neither has Stephen's cap management, but like his father, the boss won't fire him for doing a poor job either. You want to place blame on Ware for not gratefully accepting whatever Dallas offered him. I'll spread the blame around to the guys who created an unmanageable cap situation too.

You say Dallas has no long term goal I disagree I think their goal at this point is to rebuild the defense but you are not going to do it by keeping the same high price players

You're also not going to do it by drafting 2nd string TE's, RB's and WR's either. Their efforts to rebuild their defensive line through the draft have been half-hearted at best.

 

[Stash]

It's true we don't know how the defense will perform. We can make a pretty good guess has to how it's likely to perform, though. At least out of the gate.

I'd feel a lot better about the front 7 if we'd seen anything at all from Melton and McClain this preseason. That's such a giant question mark where we're getting bullied right now in exhibition. Having Lawrence available, or Spencer having played some time in pads, or Brent actually available and in the lineup would have me feeling a lot better, too. As it is, we've got a chance that these guys can come back and contribute, but missing all of camp and not being in football shape and not being even reinstated yet in Brent's case, it's foolish to count on them having a big contribution.

I'm afraid what we're going to see on defense is going to be bad, with a chance of getting a lot better. And by 'a lot better,' I mean 'mediocre.
The good news is we will be good on offense and will probably be good on special teams, too. We can win some games with a bad defense.

I think this is a perfectly reasonable assessment.

Personally, I hate the fact that we're once again counting on a bunch of injured players and it's shaping up to be a repeat of last season.

Two weeks before the season and it seems like half of what was already a questionable-at-best defense is still totally unsettled.

 

[MRV52]

0 and 16.

Now if we win a game I will be ecstatic.

 

[Idgit]

I think this is a perfectly reasonable assessment.

Personally, I hate the fact that we're once again counting on a bunch of injured players and it's shaping up to be a repeat of last season.

Two weeks before the season and it seems like half of what was already a questionable-at-best defense is still totally unsettled.

stash, you know I'm a generally positive guy. Even when I'm negative, I don't write of the season, I just hope that the trend we're seeing doesn't continue. But I can't tell you how frustrating this offseason has been for me as far as the front 7 are concerned. I knew we were going to be trotting out a dog's breakfast along the DL. At least I had expected the players we did have would be relatively young, relatively healthy, and we'd get the benefit of playing in the same system with what I think is a very good position coach for a few years. Throw in a couple reasonable VFA upgrades and we had a shot at a bunch of lunch pails who knew just what they were supposed to do. More talented teams would take advantage of them, sure, but we'd be getting our run fits right, we'd play with good discipline, we'd just get beat fairly often by better players, and our offense would have to keep pace for us to win our share of games.

The way it's played out, though, we didn't really get any of that. Freaking rookies are breaking feet. Veterans who shine in OTAs get high ankle sprains. Others are sidelined way too long with soft tissue injuries. The shots at bluebirds we had with Spencer and Okoye both missed. And we're heading into the real season with a damn hodgepodge again. It's so frustrating.

A DL of Spencer/Lawrence, Melton/Coleman, McClain/Brent, Crawford/Selvie I could actually live with.

That doesn't mean I'm packing in the season. It doesn't mean 'turn on the organization and complain before the games even start.' It just means it's unlikely we're going to see sound defensive football for at least the first half of the season. In a year when we really did try to simplify and set reasonable expectations. It reminds me of the season when we cleaned house on the OL and tried to start the three rookies (Smith, Costa, Nagy, Kowalski). And then we kept losing those young interior OLs to niggling injuries all season and they never really had a prayer. Sure, you're taking a big risk in going that thin. We all understand the reasons why we had to take such chances in the first place. But, if you're going to strip everything down and just try to play with some depth and coach up medicare talent, at least we should be able to catch a break and keep that mediocre talent on the field where we can coach it. Having it all sitting on the bench when we need to get better just drives me nuts.

 

[the_h0wey]

Let us not beat around the bush here. We have been a mediocre team that has regressed while most of the league has gotten better. Even if you are just standing still, the rest of the league will pass you by. And we have been going backwards.

So, how bad are we going to be? I think 4 to 5 wins tops. I think the team will play hard for the coach. I think Romo is past his prime, can't move like he once did and is no longer a top tier quarterback. I think the defense will be horrible, albiet probably not as statistically as bad as last year, because the offense wont force our opponents to attack us as much to beat us.

I think Garrett is gone after this year. I think our scouting department, however, is one of our real weaknesses, but our owner continues to trust the same old geezers hes had for 100 years.

Speaking of our owner, I think he is entering senility. Not to be harsh, but I expect decisions to get worse from here on out. I think Jerry as to the point where he is ok with losing, as long as the franchise becomes more valuable. Hes happy with his investment. But all the testosterone and vitality that led to those 90s championships, that is all gone now.

Stephen is a muppet of his father, so I don't see much changing there. Even when Jerry passes, Stephen will run the team in the same, "owner knows best," philosophy.

I know this thread seems harsh. But, Im not complaining actually. I am also not going to stop being a fan. I am just resolved to the fact that there is a decent chance the Cowboys won't win another championship in the next 20 years. Seriously.

If Romo stays healthy which I do not expect him to then 9-7. If he gets hurt 5-11.

 

[Doomsday101]

No, but at least my position has facts rather than hopes backing it up. Fact is that the league's worst defense lost its' three best performers. That doesn't up to improving on any level.



How exactly did they 'rebuild'? With castoffs and guys that either WERE hurt or ARE hurt. Not a great plan.



Neither has Stephen's cap management, but like his father, the boss won't fire him for doing a poor job either. You want to place blame on Ware for not gratefully accepting whatever Dallas offered him. I'll spread the blame around to the guys who created an unmanageable cap situation too.




You're also not going to do it by drafting 2nd string TE's, RB's and WR's either. Their efforts to rebuild their defensive line through the draft have been half-hearted at best.

How so how is yours based on facts when last season defense with Ware was the worst in Cowboys history? It was not much better the year before. Hell I you could throw anyone out there and get the worst ever in team history and do so at a cheap price. So for all the money spent he and the defense did not do jack and your solution keep him? I'm not blaming Ware for anything I respect the fact he choose to do what was best for him and the Cowboys did what was best for the team. I don't think going after a 27 year old FA and drafting a DE in the 2nd is all that half hearted and in the meantime they have done good about getting the cap back in order. I don't expect a top 10 defense I do expect better than last year for those who don't fine but telling me we got rid of Ware how can it be better all I can say is Worst defensive in Cowboys history

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Okay, fine.

The team is going 19-0. Anyone who says differently is a quitter with a loser's mentality.