How do we fix the screen pass problems?

[DBoys]

Yeah, I'm 95% sure it is James. I'm positive it was against New Orleans and if you look at the one TD against Atlanta, both the CB and I think it was a safety turn around to look at James as if they're saying, "Where the **** were you?"

You guys think James is hurt? He has looked pretty slow this year. He was really good against the pass last year.

 

[Rack]

Tell me how they are so different?

The OL releases and pulls of course but I was referring to pressure and getting it out in the flat to avoid the sack.

QBs don't just throw in the flats to avoid pressure.

1. It could be the first option, and against us, on a couple of them, it was the first option.

2. The QB will sometimes throw in the flats because no one else is open.


As for how they develop differently...


On a screen you try to decieve the DL/LBs and suck them in while the OL lets them go. You then dump it off (and it doesn't even have to be in the flats) to the RB or TE (sometimes even WR) with blockers in front of him.


A pass in the flat is just a pass in the flat. No deception involved (necessarily).

 

[theogt]

You guys think James is hurt? He has looked pretty slow this year. He was really good against the pass last year.

In most cases its just a complete mental lapse.

 

[Rack]

#1 Zimmer must make our players aware that TEs and RBs are eligible. It seems like we dont even know players other than WRs are allowed to go out and catch passes.

#2 We need guys like Burnett, Ware , Akin, and safeties to cover them... NOT Bradie James. I love James but he might as well be Jerimiah Trotter or Greg Ellis. He cannot be responsible for covering guys people. He just cant do it.

Chipping backs at the line of scrimmage would do a great deal also.

I don't like that idea. Our pass rush is horrible enough, we don't need to slow it down more by banging into RBs.

 

[smarta5150]

Yes Bradie James is Jerimiah Trotter.

All the hate threads about RW cant cover.. we should have one about Bradie

 

[smarta5150]

I don't like that idea. Our pass rush is horrible enough, we don't need to slow it down more by banging into RBs.

Usually our pass rush is AT THE LOS.

So why not :laugh2:

 

[jobberone]

Unless one safety is playing near the LOS then only the OLB, CB, ILB, and DE can really defend it. The latter two aren't the usual ones. The CB is usually deeper so that leaves one position or in this case the OLB or Ware to cover it.

They are backing the CB up some then sending RB(s) to that side on many of those plays. Ware is getting caught inside and at times is completely out of the play.

One way is to put a spy on the FB using the ILB (one that can cover the FB well enough). That takes care of delays, some traps, draws, and mobile running QBs as well. It takes away from run blitzes, maybe run defense and pass rush.

The usual way is for the OLB to make sure the FB is not moving into the space he just vacated by rushing upfield. Ware has just got to make sure he defends properly.

There are other ways to do it like CHANGING your pass protection schemes, blowing the FB up if he so much as looks that way, playing the nickel and dime more, and I know there are coaches and smarter people than me to amend and correct this post.

I'd like to see more technical explanations.

If it's not Ware someone correct me.

 

[Rack]

You guys think James is hurt? He has looked pretty slow this year. He was really good against the pass last year.

That's a very general statement. He's good in some areas against the pass, and very poor in others.


He's always been slow. This is nothing new.

When he can sit back in zone and redirect people he's ok. When he has to run out in the flats and chase people, he's poor.

 

[theogt]

Unless one safety is playing near the LOS then only the OLB, CB, ILB, and DE can really defend it. The latter two aren't the usual ones. The CB is usually deeper so that leaves one position or in this case the OLB or Ware to cover it.

They are backing the CB up some then sending RB(s) to that side on many of those plays. Ware is getting caught inside and at times is completely out of the play.

One way is to put a spy on the FB using the ILB (one that can cover the FB well enough). That takes care of delays, some traps, draws, and mobile running QBs as well. It takes away from run blitzes, maybe run defense and pass rush.

The usual way is for the OLB to make sure the FB is not moving into the space he just vacated by rushing upfield. Ware has just got to make sure he defends properly.

There are other ways to do it like CHANGING your pass protection schemes, blowing the FB up if he so much as looks that way, playing the nickel and dime more, and I know there are coaches and smarter people than me to amend and correct this post.

I'd like to see more technical explanations.

If it's not Ware someone correct me.

Ehh....if Ware is rushing the QB, then it's clearly the ILB's (if not a safety's) duty.

 

[Rack]

Usually our pass rush is AT THE LOS.

So why not :laugh2:

Good point. If they aren't gonna get to the QB anyway, might as well take a RB out of his route.

Unless one safety is playing near the LOS then only the OLB, CB, ILB, and DE can really defend it. The latter two aren't the usual ones.

ILBs and MLBs often have to cover the flats. That's in the 3-4 or the 4-3.

One way is to put a spy on the FB using the ILB

If we ever have someone "Spy" a FB, I'll break Zimmer's legs. There isn't a FB in the NFL dangerous enough to warrant being "Spied" on.

The best way to cover it is for the players to do their jobs.

And to GROZ.

If it's not Ware someone correct me

It's not Ware.

You are corrected.

 

[CooterBrown]

I don't know how to fix it because I don't know what the problem is. It isn't anything that just happened with the switch to the 3-4. The Cowboys have had no answer to Tiki Barber or Westbrook catching passes out of the backfield for years, now it's the fullback too. The problem can't be just Bradie James, because the problem was there before he was a starter. I'm not necessarily a GROZ member, but he is the only constant in this equation.

 

[Rack]

Ehh....if Ware is rushing the QB, then it's clearly the ILB's (if not a safety's) duty.

Unless the ILB in blitzing.


Sometimes - and I'm not saying this has been the case for ANY of the TDs we've given up at all this season - it is the safety's responsibility. Depends on the coverage/play called.

 

[jobberone]

Unless one safety is playing near the LOS then only the OLB, CB, ILB, and DE can really defend it. The latter two aren't the usual ones. The CB is usually deeper so that leaves one position or in this case the OLB or Ware to cover it.

They are backing the CB up some then sending RB(s) to that side on many of those plays. Ware is getting caught inside and at times is completely out of the play.

One way is to put a spy on the FB using the ILB (one that can cover the FB well enough). That takes care of delays, some traps, draws, and mobile running QBs as well. It takes away from run blitzes, maybe run defense and pass rush.

The usual way is for the OLB to make sure the FB is not moving into the space he just vacated by rushing upfield. Ware has just got to make sure he defends properly.

There are other ways to do it like CHANGING your pass protection schemes, blowing the FB up if he so much as looks that way, playing the nickel and dime more, and I know there are coaches and smarter people than me to amend and correct this post.

I'd like to see more technical explanations.

If it's not Ware someone correct me.

 

[theogt]

Unless one safety is playing near the LOS then only the OLB, CB, ILB, and DE can really defend it. The latter two aren't the usual ones. The CB is usually deeper so that leaves one position or in this case the OLB or Ware to cover it.

They are backing the CB up some then sending RB(s) to that side on many of those plays. Ware is getting caught inside and at times is completely out of the play.

One way is to put a spy on the FB using the ILB (one that can cover the FB well enough). That takes care of delays, some traps, draws, and mobile running QBs as well. It takes away from run blitzes, maybe run defense and pass rush.

The usual way is for the OLB to make sure the FB is not moving into the space he just vacated by rushing upfield. Ware has just got to make sure he defends properly.

There are other ways to do it like CHANGING your pass protection schemes, blowing the FB up if he so much as looks that way, playing the nickel and dime more, and I know there are coaches and smarter people than me to amend and correct this post.

I'd like to see more technical explanations.

If it's not Ware someone correct me.

Now that you've said it again, it all makes sense.

 

[smarta5150]

Unless the ILB in blitzing.


Sometimes - and I'm not saying this has been the case for ANY of the TDs we've given up at all this season - it is the safety's responsibility. Depends on the coverage/play called.

It usually is the safety's responsibility.

Now I dont wanna turn this into a RW thread but this is part of the reason why he has been getting beat and criticize.

How many STRONG safeties in the league do you see covering 1 on 1?

THe answer is pretty much just 1... that being RW.

Most teams allow their FS to man up against a TE or RB.

RW has been doing this since we dont really have an answer at FS, YET (watkins will one day be it).

Dawkins who is a FS is always man to man with a TE. This is what a FS is suppose to be able to do.

Instead, we need RW there who obviously lacks the coverage ability.

 

[Rack]

It usually is the safety's responsibility.

Now I dont wanna turn this into a RW thread but this is part of the reason why he has been getting beat and criticize.

How many STRONG safeties in the league do you see covering 1 on 1?

THe answer is pretty much just 1... that being RW.

Most teams allow their FS to man up against a TE or RB.

RW has been doing this since we dont really have an answer at FS, YET (watkins will one day be it).

Dawkins who is a FS is always man to man with a TE. This is what a FS is suppose to be able to do.

Instead, we need RW there who obviously lacks the coverage ability.

It's not "usually" the safetys job to cover the flats. Especially in our cover 2 scheme.

 

[theogt]

It's not "usually" the safetys job to cover the flats. Especially in our cover 2 scheme.

I think he meant when the ILB is blitzing. Even in that case I'm not sure if it's "usually" the safeties responsbility, though it certainly can be.

 

[smarta5150]

Unless the ILB in blitzing.


Sometimes - and I'm not saying this has been the case for ANY of the TDs we've given up at all this season - it is the safety's responsibility. Depends on the coverage/play called.

You said it.

I was agreeing with you.

 

[TobiasEagle77]

You play too much madden. A CBs job in cover 2 zone isn't just to cover the flats (unless it's in madden).


If the WR runs deep the CB has too stay with him UNTIL someone goes to the flats, not sit there and wait in the flats (like in Madden).

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that the corner stays in the flats. I understand that the corner covers the wide reciever until a certain depth and then releases him to the safety if someone else enters his zone.

 

[Rack]

You said it.

I was agreeing with you.

My bad.


Misread your post.