How is Greg Ellis a great pass rusher?

[Chuck 54]

Tolbert had Haley across from him. If you go by stats only then Haley was a horrible pass rusher since he didn't get that many sacks while he was here. Tolbert numbers jumped with the arrival of Haley.

Not at the end of his career...he became Haley.

 

[Chuck 54]

I think you might be overrating Tolbert a tad. I think Ellis could well be deemed a "poor man's" Tony Tolbert when looking at their respective careers.

In nine seasons, Tolbert had 59 sacks (6.5 per year). In seven seasons, Ellis has 43 sacks (6.1 per year). Tolbert was only a one-time Pro Bowler, in 1996 when he exceeded 10 sacks for the only time in his career. In fact, other than that season, 8.5 sacks was Tolbert's career high.

I remember when Haley wasn't getting all the sacks and they started reporting QB pressures...Haley had a ton of QB pressures every year...I'd be willing to bet, without doing the research of course , that Tolbert spent more time in the backfield after Haley was gone than Ellis does.

 

[Sarge]

Who said he was?

That's my question as well. Where is this all coming from??

 

[jterrell]

I would give all the effort in the world it's not gonna make me a great pass rusher

If you happened to be 6'5" and 280 pounds and gave all out effort every play if would do worlds to help.
There are plenty of DE's who take plays off then bust through for a sack and end up looking pretty on the stat sheet.
What sets Ellis apart is the effort play to play.
Fans may marginalize that but coaches and teammates do not.

 

[Tio]

I absolutely think Greg Ellis is a weak pass rusher and if I could get a DE who could rush the passer better than Ellis, I would take him in a heart beat. I think I'm a rational fan just not a homer. I like Ellis. He is a nice guy and he puts forth great effort, but his fine effort and boy scout image don't threaten any offense.



.

I disagree with this. Ellis isn't a great passrusher, but anyone who can get 7+ sacks with no help in this scheme, isn't weak against the pass. He is a very good 2nd de. He is asked to be our premeire pass rusher, thats why you and other fans don't apreciate all the things he does for us.

 

[jterrell]

A few notes.

1st I moved this because James couldn't stick to his initial word and avoid posting beyond the initial question AND more largely because denigrating a Cowboy who has performed well enough to likely be the defensive MVP of the team is innane and self-loathing. No one attacking Cowboys players on a Cowboys board should feel any expectation beyond sharp retorts.

2nd Tony Tolbert was a solid player. A guy who should get more respect. Greg Ellis is a similar player but one who could pass Tolbert easily over the next few seasons. In fact it wouldn't be a stretch to say Ellis is already a better pass rusher statistically. Tolbert played with Jeffcoat and Charles Haley. Ellis has had some verifiable scrubs. Tolbert had 1 season of over 8.5 sacks and that came in his 9th year in the league. I am fairly certian Greg Ellis pass rush totals will be more impressive than Tolbert's when their career is said and done. The 6.1 to 6.5 sacks average is changing right now. Ellis is obviously over that and every sack raises his average. Another 3 sacks would give him that amount on average.

3rd. This nonsense wouldn't even exist if it werent for moronic media perceptions that got passed off to lazy fans. Lazy in the sense they don't watch the player and don't open their minds to changing opinions down the road. Greg Ellis is not a speed rusher so he will never be accepted by some as a pass rusher. If you can't run by the OT in a flash then the sack doesn't count for them. What Ellis does is use good technique and great strength to attack the OT and get to the QB. His sack and pressure totals have been good enough to make him a top 15 pass rusher. That isn't elite but the elite guys don't generally play the run at all. They come off the edge every play.

4th. The media attacks were based on Randy Moss, nothing else. It was easy to write about and talk about. But since 1998 the two teams have about the same number of wins and neither has won a title. The Vikes had better players around Moss for the most part with Culpepper, Carter early, Robert Smith then Michael Bennett/Onterrio Smith. Moss is a 4.2 guy and the ultimate playmaker. So the fantastic argument of the 8th pick should be a "playmaker" gets tossed about. Thats silly. How many 8th picks are actually big time playmakers? There are no where near 8 big time playmakers per season coming out of college and playmaking is quantitative and qualitative thus almost impossible to measure. Are Greg Ellis' batted balls and sacks big plays? If not what is?

Lastly, I have zero respect for the opinion that Greg Ellis is somehow lacking because he actually plays DE as an End should. He isn't a LB just rushing the passer like Terrell Suggs. He is a DE who has to play the run and actually take on an OT. There are clearly people who post more than they watch football and some of the takes make it obvious which are which. The stats seldom back their arguments but some mediot almost always argued their opinion at some point in the past.