How long, is long enough?

[visionary]

I'm saying that is part of the evaluation. I've thrown out the last last year and this year because I can't evaluate how well Garrett can be with the players he has had to put out there on defense. I submit that Garrett hasn't had a chance given all the constraints and now injuries to put a consistent winner on the field.

Wow!!
I think posters need to read this

You are throwing out 2 full seasons from evaluating the performance of the HC because the team had injuries

Wow!

 

[cowboysooner]

I think Garret has some shortcomings as a head coach. That said, continuity is one of the most underrated aspects of successful nfl franchises.

 

[BigStar]

One of the best post on this board.

Like it, balls

 

[fanfromvirginia]

I cut him loose after this season unless he finishes with a winning record, wins the division and then wins a playoff game. If he does that, I fire him after next year if he doesn't improve (at least two playoff wins).

 

[bgolf90]

This process has played at .500 ball for awhile. Time to look elsewhere.

 

[Willywonder1115]

I wanted to get the boards opinions on how long and how many games coached does it take to determine
if you have the right headcoach for your team.
At the end of this season Garrett will have been HC for 3.5 seasons.

In your opinion is that enough time for Jerry to make a quality decision about Garrett ?

One School of thought is that we are improving and that it is a process, and it will take time for Garrett to get his type of players in.

The other School says that Garrett's a terrible clock manager and his offense is outdated.

Just curious how my fellow Cowboy fans feel ?

In my opinion, Jones just wants a guy he can control. We need a General Manager. Jones needs to bud out. He shouldn't be making the decisions. Granted , he owns the team. We need a better coach. Just my opinion.

 

[jobberone]

Bottom line is wins and losses and anyone claiming that is NOT the most important factor is a fool.

WHAT coaches were in place for 3 years -did not make it to the playoffs and then went on to win a SB?

If we do not make it to the playoffs this year that will be three full seasons that we were at best mediocre and barely a playoff threat.

Anyone using Tom Landry as some kind of comparison is full of crap. The league, situation, EVERYTHING was different 50 years ago. Trying to deflect criticism of a current coach with one of 50 years ago is being a cheap lawyer trying to get the guilty off on a technicality.

Tom Landry started out on an expansion team. JG did not.
Tom Landry had no draft his first season. JG did.
Tom Landry was allowed to pick 3 players not protected from each NFL team. Needless to say they were garbage. JG had a full roster to start out with.
Tom Landry at the same time was competing against another league (AFL). JG is not.
Tom Landry had no QB. JG does.
No team in the history of the NFL started out with less then the Boys and Tom Landry. JG took over a team that was only one year removed from a division championship.

Tom Landry started out on an expansion team. JG did not.

They both had full rosters and both had players who had played in the NFL and some who hadn't.

Tom Landry had no draft his first season. JG did.

See above. He drafted players with NFL experience off other clubs. They got LeBaron whom Marshall forgot to protect and was Pro Bowl when that meant something. He had Meredith who had been signed to a personal services contract before the team ever existed. There were other decent players. But Landry had 5 straight losing seasons before going 7-7 in 65. The point was it took even the great Landry time to put it together.

Tom Landry was allowed to pick 3 players not protected from each NFL team. Needless to say they were garbage. JG had a full roster to start out with.

Landry had a full roster and they were most definitely not all garbage. Again you fail to understand it took 5 years for Landry to even get to break even. And fans and media sounded just like uuuhhh.....YOU!

Tom Landry at the same time was competing against another league (AFL). JG is not.

Irrelevant. Deflection. Who sounds like a lawyer now esp playing loose with facts. No other coach in the NFL played any games against players from the AFL at that time so all the coaches in the NFL had a level playing field against AFL players; i.e. nada.

Tom Landry had no QB. JG does.

Landry had Eddie LeBaron who was a Pro Bowl QB in Washington and also for Dallas in 62. Meredith wasn't so bad either.

No team in the history of the NFL started out with less then the Boys and Tom Landry. JG took over a team that was only one year removed from a division championship

And said team had to be dismantled and rebuilt because of the bad actors, bad players, aging players, and those who didn't fit or left the team for 'greener' pastures. You're still missing the point which was not comparing Landry and Garrett but only refuting a single point about it taking time to build a team and even great coaches didn't do it overnight. Some 'great' coaches went to other teams and didn't do so well quickly either. BUT it's been fun refuting your 'argument'.
=================================================================================

Btw, MN started out with much less. They had no previous players on their team. They had one winning season in their first six seasons and didn't win a playoff game until 68.

Atlanta started in 65 and had their first winning season in 71. They started with less than the Cowboys as well having no players on the team with any experience. They didn't go to the playoffs until 78 and had a one playoff win then.

Here are the starters for the 2010 season for the Cowboys:

OFFENSE
Position Names
WR Miles Austin
LT Doug Free
LG Kyle Kosier
C Andre Gurode
RG Leonard Davis
RT Marc Colombo
TE Jason Witten
WR Roy Williams
QB Tony Romo (6)
Jon Kitna (9)
FB Chris Gronkowski
RB Marion Barber (10)
Felix Jones (6)

DEFENSE
Position Names
LE Marcus Spears (7)
Stephen Bowen (7)
NT Jay Ratliff
RE Igor Olshansky
SLB Anthony Spencer
MILB Bradie James
MOLB Keith Brooking
WLB DeMarcus Ware
LCB Terence Newman
RCB Mike Jenkins
FS Alan Ball
SS Gerald Sensabaugh

Looking back at that team you have Austin the oft injured, Free the maligned but pretty good player after all, Witten the future HOFer, Romo the maligned but very good QB, Ratliff the oft injured, Spencer the maligned but very good now injured player, and the departed Newman who was very good but oft injured and unappreciated here. After that not so much. Gurode had been a good player but was declining as well as Kosier, Davis, and Colombo who all had to be replaced. Williams was marginal at best, Gronk a JAG, Barber on the decline and Jones a decent but oft injured RB.

2011 Dallas Cowboys Roster
#PlayerPosGGSBirthdateCollege
55 Alex AlbrightLB16001/29/1988Boston College
62 David ArkinOG0010/07/1987Missouri State
19 Miles AustinWR101006/30/1984Monmouth
5 Dan BaileyK16001/26/1988Oklahoma State
20 Alan BallDB16203/29/1985Illinois
80 Martellus BennettTE14703/10/1987Texas A&M
92 Josh BrentDE11001/30/1988Illinois
51 Keith BrookingLB16310/30/1975Georgia Tech
88 Dez BryantWR151311/04/1988Oklahoma State
18 David BuehlerK4002/05/1987Southern California
57 Victor ButlerLB16007/29/1987Oregon State
54 Bruce CarterLB10002/19/1988North Carolina
45 Shaun ChapasRB3005/02/1988Georgia
23 Tashard ChoiceRB6105/07/1986Georgia Tech
42 Barry ChurchDB13102/11/1988Toledo
99 Kenyon ColemanDE161504/10/1979UCLA
67 Phil CostaOG161607/11/1987Maryland
75 Derrick DockeryOG9209/07/1980Texas
26 Abram ElamDB161610/15/1981Kent State
24 Tony FiammettaRB10608/22/1986Syracuse
68 Doug FreeOT161601/16/1984Northern Illinois
96 Clifton GeathersDE5012/11/1987South Carolina
17 Dwayne HarrisWR7009/16/1987East Carolina
97 Jason HatcherDE131007/13/1982Grambling
64 Montrae HollandOG101005/21/1980Florida State
16 Jesse HolleyWR16001/08/1984North Carolina
15 Andre HolmesWR0006/16/1988Hillsdale
56 Bradie JamesLB161301/17/1981Louisiana State
21 Mike JenkinsDB121203/22/1985South Florida
6 Chris JonesP2007/21/1989Carson-Newman
28 Felix JonesRB12805/08/1987Arkansas
3 Jon KitnaQB3009/21/1972Central Washington
63 Kyle KosierOT161601/27/1978Arizona State
60 Kevin KowalskiC11001/02/1989Toledo
91 L.P. LadouceurLS16003/13/1981California
50 Sean LeeLB151507/22/1986Penn State
95 Sean LissemoreDT16009/11/1987William & Mary
70 Daniel LoperOT0001/15/1982Texas Tech
1 Mat McBriarP14007/08/1979Hawaii
37 Bryan McCannDB2009/29/1987Southern Methodist
40 Danny McCrayDB14003/10/1988Louisiana State
7 Stephen McGeeQB1009/27/1985Texas A&M
23 Sammy MorrisRB3003/23/1977Texas Tech
29 Demarco MurrayRB13702/12/1988Oklahoma
61 Bill NagyOG4410/26/1987Wisconsin
41 Terence NewmanDB141409/04/1978Kansas State
85 Kevin OgletreeWR14108/05/1987Virginia
11 Akwasi Owusu-AnsahDB3004/10/1988Indiana (PA)
78 Jermey ParnellDE6007/20/1986Mississippi
89 John PhillipsTE16706/11/1987Virginia
86 Raymond RadwayWR0007/05/1987Abilene Christian
90 Jay RatliffDE161608/29/1981Auburn
81 Laurent RobinsonWR14405/20/1985Illinois State
9 Tony RomoQB161604/21/1980Eastern Illinois
83 Martin RuckerTE1005/04/1985Missouri
32 Orlando ScandrickDB13711/04/1984Boise State
43 Gerald SensabaughDB161606/13/1983North Carolina
36 Mana SilvaDB2008/17/1988Hawaii
77 Tyron SmithOT161612/12/1990Southern California
98 Marcus SpearsDE16503/08/1983Louisiana State
93 Anthony SpencerDE161501/23/1984Purdue
34 Phillip TannerRB9008/08/1988Middle Tennessee State
25 Frank WalkerDB14008/06/1980Tuskegee
94 Demarcus WareDE161607/31/1982Troy State
30 Chauncey WashingtonRB2004/29/1985Southern California
82 Jason WittenTE161605/06/1982Tennessee

2012 Dallas Cowboys roster

Quarterback (3): Tony Romo, Kyle Orton, Stephen McGee
Running Back (3): DeMarco Murray, Felix Jones, Phillip Tanner
Fullback (1): Lawrence Vickers
Tight End (3): Jason Witten, John Phillips, James Hanna
Wide Receiver (6): Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, Kevin Ogletree, Dwayne Harris, Cole Beasley, Andre Holmes
Offensive Line (9): Tyron Smith, Doug Free, Nate Livings, Mackenzy Bernadeau, Phil Costa, Ryan Cook, Jermey Parnell, David Arkin, Derrick Dockery

Defensive Line (7): Jay Ratliff, Jason Hatcher, Kenyon Coleman, Sean Lissemore,Marcus Spears, Tyrone Crawford, Josh Brent
Inside Linebacker (4): Sean Lee, Bruce Carter, Dan Connor, Alex Albright
Outside Linebacker (4): DeMarcus Ware, Anthony Spencer, Victor Butler, Kyle Wilber
Cornerback (5): Brandon Carr, Morris Claiborne, Orlando Scandrick, Mike Jenkins,Mario Butler
Safety (5): Gerald Sensabaugh, Barry Church, Danny McCray, Matt Johnson, Mana Silva

Special Teams (3): Dan Bailey, Chris Jones, L.P. Ladouceur
PUP/IR (3): Kevin Kowalski, Donavon Kemp, Caleb McSurdy

It is worth pointing out that where the Cowboys had four undrafted free agents make the team straight out of college in each of the last two years, there's only one college free agent on this year's roster: WR Cole Beasley.
=================================================================

The avg retention rate per year for starters is almost 19 of 22 and for all about 49 of 53 with lows of 16/22 and 39/53; the latter recently. Since 2010 we have six starters left and one of those is on IR and another 2 injured and missing games. So over 4 years we have 5 starters from the 2010 team and 3 playing. That's and overall retention rate of 9%. We should have 22% of the team still playing for us with a retention rate of 80% each year which is avg.

So yes we have had to dramatically overhaul the team.

 

[xwalker]

Reid has confidence, JG has no direction or conviction. Reid could and may still win a SB resulting from blind luck and his offensive intuitiveness although not always in the right playcalling manner. Passing does win, and with a good D, he could vey well win a SB in KC when eventually finds a QB throwing to receivers consistently instead of predetermined check downs as a result of the QB's inability to read a secondary and the stones to throw when wr's ARE open.

KC had 6 Players that went the the Pro Bowl before Reid got there. Considering that voting tends to lean towards players on good team, it's somewhat amazing that a 2-14 team could have that many players voted to the Pro Bowl.

Pioli had 4 years to assemble the talent for KC. His only failure was at QB.

There's a big difference in inheriting a Jerry/Wade roster than inheriting a Scot Pioli built roster.

SF was similar. They accumulated excellent talent and Mike Singletary did instill discipline in the team. Although he was a bit crazy, it is much better to inherit a team that from an over-bearing coach like Singletary than to inherit a team coached by Wade Phillips that was allowed to do whatever they wanted. Jay Ratliff developed his attitude while Wade was the HC. Once players get that sense of entitlement, there's no going back. By the time Garrett was HC, it was too late for salvage The Rat.

By my count only 14 of 53 players on the current roster were coached by Wade. Garrett had to replace 39 players and deal with massive dead-money from the cuts in the process.

Garrett might never win a SB but if he is ever replaced, then the new HC would inherit a drastically better situation than the one Garrett inherited from Wade.

 

[CaptainMorgan]

I accept the "Mediocrity" because it's a process

If only I could buy into that nonsense.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Wow!!
I think posters need to read this

You are throwing out 2 full seasons from evaluating the performance of the HC because the team had injuries

Wow!

There is a lot of truth to what jobberone said.

 

[CaptainMorgan]

Garrett might never win a SB but if he is ever replaced, then the new HC would inherit a drastically better situation than the one Garrett inherited from Wade.

really? 31 million over the cap in 2014 for a team that can barely pull off a .500 record? That is drastically better?

Not to mention the core players on this team, Romo, Ware, Witten are all on the downside of their careers and are not playing worth their contracts.

 

[Fredd]

IMO, I saw the 3-year plan that JG started and I was pretty enthused to see it put in place with the OL being the last major piece of the puzzle...no one expected the HUGE number of injuries to the DL...but, while the defense has failed the team, what really bugs me is how lame the offense is...it is on the HC to make sure the team is functioning to the best of it's ability...if they are playing to the best of their ability, then Garrett is failing with a lackluster performance...if they aren't playing up to their abilities, then Garrett is failing...either way you slice the pie, Garrett is failing

I am hopeful that they can get out of their consistent mediocrity, but I just don't see it...the only thing that the Vikings game will tell me is if the season is over (if they lose)...a win tells me nothing...string a few together and you have my interest again...but I fear the roller-coaster of win-loss-etc continues at least for the next two weeks...at 5-5 we then get the giants and raiders within 5 days the team needs to be 7-5 after 12 games (minimally) for me to want Garrett to be here longer

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Darn, you're a good poster, Toruk.

Whether I agree with your posts or not- I like what you bring.

Good show.

Much obliged.

 

[mitchell2254]

Like it, balls

thats what she said

 

[jobberone]

Wow!!
I think posters need to read this

You are throwing out 2 full seasons from evaluating the performance of the HC because the team had injuries

Wow!

Not exactly what I said. I didn't say throw it out. I said I don't know how to properly evaluate the coach with the amount of injuries we've had on defense the last year and a half. Again you can't reasonably evaluate an employee when they don't have the resources to do their job. But you can just say I don't care. I want results. Who cares if you only have six starters playing.

 

[Doomsay]

Jerry doesnt make quality decisions. But, his decision nonetheless has been made. Garrett is his man to keep this team hovering around .500 for years to come. This allows Jason to "evolve and mature as a head coach" while he continues to stack practices and engineer the process.

And Wit Ware and Tony are ground into dust.

 

[jobberone]

IMO, I saw the 3-year plan that JG started and I was pretty enthused to see it put in place with the OL being the last major piece of the puzzle...no one expected the HUGE number of injuries to the DL...but, while the defense has failed the team, what really bugs me is how lame the offense is...it is on the HC to make sure the team is functioning to the best of it's ability...if they are playing to the best of their ability, then Garrett is failing with a lackluster performance...if they aren't playing up to their abilities, then Garrett is failing...either way you slice the pie, Garrett is failing

I am hopeful that they can get out of their consistent mediocrity, but I just don't see it...the only thing that the Vikings game will tell me is if the season is over (if they lose)...a win tells me nothing...string a few together and you have my interest again...but I fear the roller-coaster of win-loss-etc continues at least for the next two weeks...at 5-5 we then get the giants and raiders within 5 days the team needs to be 7-5 after 12 games (minimally) for me to want Garrett to be here longer

I agree the offense has been a problem at times but they are scoring 30 or so a game.

 

[dropdeadfred5]

Tom Landry started out on an expansion team. JG did not.
They both had full rosters and both had players who had played in the NFL and some who hadn't.

Tom Landry had no draft his first season. JG did.
See above. He drafted players with NFL experience off other clubs. They got LeBaron whom Marshall forgot to protect and was Pro Bowl when that meant something. He had Meredith who had been signed to a personal services contract before the team ever existed. There were other decent players. But Landry had 5 straight losing seasons before going 7-7 in 65. The point was it took even the great Landry time to put it together.

Tom Landry was allowed to pick 3 players not protected from each NFL team. Needless to say they were garbage. JG had a full roster to start out with.
Landry had a full roster and they were most definitely not all garbage. Again you fail to understand it took 5 years for Landry to even get to break even. And fans and media sounded just like uuuhhh.....YOU!

Tom Landry at the same time was competing against another league (AFL). JG is not.
Irrelevant. Deflection. Who sounds like a lawyer now esp playing loose with facts. No other coach in the NFL played any games against players from the AFL at that time so all the coaches in the NFL had a level playing field against AFL players; i.e. nada.

Tom Landry had no QB. JG does.
Landry had Eddie LeBaron who was a Pro Bowl QB in Washington and also for Dallas in 62. Meredith wasn't so bad either.

No team in the history of the NFL started out with less then the Boys and Tom Landry. JG took over a team that was only one year removed from a division championship
And said team had to be dismantled and rebuilt because of the bad actors, bad players, aging players, and those who didn't fit or left the team for 'greener' pastures. You're still missing the point which was not comparing Landry and Garrett but only refuting a single point about it taking time to build a team and even great coaches didn't do it overnight. Some 'great' coaches went to other teams and didn't do so well quickly either. BUT it's been fun refuting your 'argument'.
=================================================================================

Btw, MN started out with much less. They had no previous players on their team. They had one winning season in their first six seasons and didn't win a playoff game until 68.

Atlanta started in 65 and had their first winning season in 71. They started with less than the Cowboys as well having no players on the team with any experience. They didn't go to the playoffs until 78 and had a one playoff win then.

Here are the starters for the 2010 season for the Cowboys:

OFFENSE
Position Names
WR Miles Austin
LT Doug Free
LG Kyle Kosier
C Andre Gurode
RG Leonard Davis
RT Marc Colombo
TE Jason Witten
WR Roy Williams
QB Tony Romo (6)
Jon Kitna (9)
FB Chris Gronkowski
RB Marion Barber (10)
Felix Jones (6)

DEFENSE
Position Names
LE Marcus Spears (7)
Stephen Bowen (7)
NT Jay Ratliff
RE Igor Olshansky
SLB Anthony Spencer
MILB Bradie James
MOLB Keith Brooking
WLB DeMarcus Ware
LCB Terence Newman
RCB Mike Jenkins
FS Alan Ball
SS Gerald Sensabaugh

Looking back at that team you have Austin the oft injured, Free the maligned but pretty good player after all, Witten the future HOFer, Romo the maligned but very good QB, Ratliff the oft injured, Spencer the maligned but very good now injured player, and the departed Newman who was very good but oft injured and unappreciated here. After that not so much. Gurode had been a good player but was declining as well as Kosier, Davis, and Colombo who all had to be replaced. Williams was marginal at best, Gronk a JAG, Barber on the decline and Jones a decent but oft injured RB.

2011 Dallas Cowboys Roster
#PlayerPosGGSBirthdateCollege
55 Alex AlbrightLB16001/29/1988Boston College
62 David ArkinOG0010/07/1987Missouri State
19 Miles AustinWR101006/30/1984Monmouth
5 Dan BaileyK16001/26/1988Oklahoma State
20 Alan BallDB16203/29/1985Illinois
80 Martellus BennettTE14703/10/1987Texas A&M
92 Josh BrentDE11001/30/1988Illinois
51 Keith BrookingLB16310/30/1975Georgia Tech
88 Dez BryantWR151311/04/1988Oklahoma State
18 David BuehlerK4002/05/1987Southern California
57 Victor ButlerLB16007/29/1987Oregon State
54 Bruce CarterLB10002/19/1988North Carolina
45 Shaun ChapasRB3005/02/1988Georgia
23 Tashard ChoiceRB6105/07/1986Georgia Tech
42 Barry ChurchDB13102/11/1988Toledo
99 Kenyon ColemanDE161504/10/1979UCLA
67 Phil CostaOG161607/11/1987Maryland
75 Derrick DockeryOG9209/07/1980Texas
26 Abram ElamDB161610/15/1981Kent State
24 Tony FiammettaRB10608/22/1986Syracuse
68 Doug FreeOT161601/16/1984Northern Illinois
96 Clifton GeathersDE5012/11/1987South Carolina
17 Dwayne HarrisWR7009/16/1987East Carolina
97 Jason HatcherDE131007/13/1982Grambling
64 Montrae HollandOG101005/21/1980Florida State
16 Jesse HolleyWR16001/08/1984North Carolina
15 Andre HolmesWR0006/16/1988Hillsdale
56 Bradie JamesLB161301/17/1981Louisiana State
21 Mike JenkinsDB121203/22/1985South Florida
6 Chris JonesP2007/21/1989Carson-Newman
28 Felix JonesRB12805/08/1987Arkansas
3 Jon KitnaQB3009/21/1972Central Washington
63 Kyle KosierOT161601/27/1978Arizona State
60 Kevin KowalskiC11001/02/1989Toledo
91 L.P. LadouceurLS16003/13/1981California
50 Sean LeeLB151507/22/1986Penn State
95 Sean LissemoreDT16009/11/1987William & Mary
70 Daniel LoperOT0001/15/1982Texas Tech
1 Mat McBriarP14007/08/1979Hawaii
37 Bryan McCannDB2009/29/1987Southern Methodist
40 Danny McCrayDB14003/10/1988Louisiana State
7 Stephen McGeeQB1009/27/1985Texas A&M
23 Sammy MorrisRB3003/23/1977Texas Tech
29 Demarco MurrayRB13702/12/1988Oklahoma
61 Bill NagyOG4410/26/1987Wisconsin
41 Terence NewmanDB141409/04/1978Kansas State
85 Kevin OgletreeWR14108/05/1987Virginia
11 Akwasi Owusu-AnsahDB3004/10/1988Indiana (PA)
78 Jermey ParnellDE6007/20/1986Mississippi
89 John PhillipsTE16706/11/1987Virginia
86 Raymond RadwayWR0007/05/1987Abilene Christian
90 Jay RatliffDE161608/29/1981Auburn
81 Laurent RobinsonWR14405/20/1985Illinois State
9 Tony RomoQB161604/21/1980Eastern Illinois
83 Martin RuckerTE1005/04/1985Missouri
32 Orlando ScandrickDB13711/04/1984Boise State
43 Gerald SensabaughDB161606/13/1983North Carolina
36 Mana SilvaDB2008/17/1988Hawaii
77 Tyron SmithOT161612/12/1990Southern California
98 Marcus SpearsDE16503/08/1983Louisiana State
93 Anthony SpencerDE161501/23/1984Purdue
34 Phillip TannerRB9008/08/1988Middle Tennessee State
25 Frank WalkerDB14008/06/1980Tuskegee
94 Demarcus WareDE161607/31/1982Troy State
30 Chauncey WashingtonRB2004/29/1985Southern California
82 Jason WittenTE161605/06/1982Tennessee

2012 Dallas Cowboys roster

Quarterback (3): Tony Romo, Kyle Orton, Stephen McGee
Running Back (3): DeMarco Murray, Felix Jones, Phillip Tanner
Fullback (1): Lawrence Vickers
Tight End (3): Jason Witten, John Phillips, James Hanna
Wide Receiver (6): Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, Kevin Ogletree, Dwayne Harris, Cole Beasley, Andre Holmes
Offensive Line (9): Tyron Smith, Doug Free, Nate Livings, Mackenzy Bernadeau, Phil Costa, Ryan Cook, Jermey Parnell, David Arkin, Derrick Dockery

Defensive Line (7): Jay Ratliff, Jason Hatcher, Kenyon Coleman, Sean Lissemore,Marcus Spears, Tyrone Crawford, Josh Brent
Inside Linebacker (4): Sean Lee, Bruce Carter, Dan Connor, Alex Albright
Outside Linebacker (4): DeMarcus Ware, Anthony Spencer, Victor Butler, Kyle Wilber
Cornerback (5): Brandon Carr, Morris Claiborne, Orlando Scandrick, Mike Jenkins,Mario Butler
Safety (5): Gerald Sensabaugh, Barry Church, Danny McCray, Matt Johnson, Mana Silva

Special Teams (3): Dan Bailey, Chris Jones, L.P. Ladouceur
PUP/IR (3): Kevin Kowalski, Donavon Kemp, Caleb McSurdy

It is worth pointing out that where the Cowboys had four undrafted free agents make the team straight out of college in each of the last two years, there's only one college free agent on this year's roster: WR Cole Beasley.
=================================================================

The avg retention rate per year for starters is almost 19 of 22 and for all about 49 of 53 with lows of 16/22 and 39/53; the latter recently. Since 2010 we have six starters left and one of those is on IR and another 2 injured and missing games. So over 4 years we have 5 starters from the 2010 team and 3 playing. That's and overall retention rate of 9%. We should have 22% of the team still playing for us with a retention rate of 80% each year which is avg.

So yes we have had to dramatically overhaul the team.

you must be a lawyer. No other explanation.

1) trying to claim Tom had a full roster is hilarious- yeah they were warm bodies but only YOU could try and claim some kind of equivalency.
2) YOU are trying to claim some kind of equal status for your homeboy JG- no one else with any honesty would.
3) Just proved the lawyering when you bleated deflection. Only YOU would claim no impact from the AFL as regards acquiring talent. Maybe you ought to look up what Gil Brandt had to say about that. But then you would claim it was irrelevant.
4) Eddie Lebaron was about done and frankly was not as good As Romo was while JG was starting out. Once again you trying to claim equivalency is hilarious. Meredith - once he started he was quite good. As good comparatively as Romo? No. But go ahead with your fantasy.
5) YOU were the one bringing up Tom Landry/ Then got called on your BS and now you try and lawyer your way out of it. Gil Brandt once again pees all over your so called argument. He flat out said that the Boys started with more handicaps then any expansion team ever has. And once again you ignore the FACT that JG took over a team that was one year removed from a division championship. He clearly had much more talent then Tom did at least his first two years and probably into his third at least. And guess what- JG has not had to contend with Lombardi, and at that time one of the best Giant teams they ever had in the early 60's. JG has been competing in a weak division. That could not be said anywhere near as much for Tom Landry first few years. Even this year when the division is putrid what do we see?

 

[kevinhickey]

you must be a lawyer. No other explanation.

1) trying to claim Tom had a full roster is hilarious- yeah they were warm bodies but only YOU could try and claim some kind of equivalency.
2) YOU are trying to claim some kind of equal status for your homeboy JG- no one else with any honesty would.
3) Just proved the lawyering when you bleated deflection. Only YOU would claim no impact from the AFL as regards acquiring talent. Maybe you ought to look up what Gil Brandt had to say about that. But then you would claim it was irrelevant.
4) Eddie Lebaron was about done and frankly was not as good As Romo was while JG was starting out. Once again you trying to claim equivalency is hilarious. Meredith - once he started he was quite good. As good comparatively as Romo? No. But go ahead with your fantasy.
5) YOU were the one bringing up Tom Landry/ Then got called on your BS and now you try and lawyer your way out of it. Gil Brandt once again pees all over your so called argument. He flat out said that the Boys started with more handicaps then any expansion team ever has. And once again you ignore the FACT that JG took over a team that was one year removed from a division championship. He clearly had much more talent then Tom did at least his first two years and probably into his third at least. And guess what- JG has not had to contend with Lombardi, and at that time one of the best Giant teams they ever had in the early 60's. JG has been competing in a weak division. That could not be said anywhere near as much for Tom Landry first few years. Even this year when the division is putrid what do we see?

I blame JJ for the mess this team is in. We suck! JJ wanted Callahan to call the plays not Garrett, so he needs to be fired. The window is closed folks. Stop dreaming nobody can fix this mess until JJ is gone.

 

[odog422]

Well, we differ in our assessment of the ability of the coach to be successful. I've not been saying winning and losing is not a component in evaluating the coach. I'm saying that is part of the evaluation. I've thrown out the last last year and this year because I can't evaluate how well Garrett can be with the players he has had to put out there on defense. In the end you have to use winning and losing but we're not at the end IMO. You can't give someone a jeweler's hammer and tell them to build a house with it. And you must have reasonable expectations about how to build a winning team. I submit that Garrett hasn't had a chance given all the constraints and now injuries to put a consistent winner on the field. I don't think anyone could have repaired this mess by now given the same problems. And none of what I'm saying really has anything to do with Garrett specifically nor do I care who the coach is as long as he's doing his job. It will take another two years to finish evaluating Garrett assuming we can put a reasonable amount of starters on the field. What I do hold Garrett responsible for is doing what he can. He's not always doing that but then no one does. Limiting failure and make wise decisions to not repeat it as well as adjusting to the situation is all you can ask. Given some problems that are well documented right now Garrett has us on the road.

How else can you evaluate? If you're starting premise is "well, first he should have X,Y, Z player" there is really no need to evaluate. With respect, your grounds for evaluation are completely unrealistic and leaves no room for further discussion. 3.5 years yet and the last year and half is thrown out? Yet, the winning record with the talent deficient squad (you argue) he took over counts.

Constraints and injuries? Since he has been here, and especially since he was promoted to coach, he has been given every single thing with the exception of complete autonomy to do what he wants (not in Dallas-not him anyway, or almost anyone else). You can't argue he is/has remade the team into an RKG deal and then on the other hand talk about constraints. Injuries, etc., are part of the game. I watched today's game and at one point in the 4th quarter, didn't know who 3 of the 4 starters were. Yet, they produced. They played and no one is saying "poor Monte" or "poor Marinelli." Two years form now Romo is gone and then it will be we have no QB. It's cool. I say he's head coach, its about wins and losses and the product on the field. I have not seen improvement in these areas and I hold him entirely responsible. In that vein, and in my mind, he has failed. Today's game only reinforced for me the man is truly not HC material. Point blank, period. IMO opinion, everything else, is, just that, excuses.