How long, is long enough?

[BigStar]

Yes.

Have you seen Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn play football?

Alex Smith is nothing. Doesn't have the ability to be a premier passer. Stop gap til AR can get a real QB to work his "real" offense. This conservative reliance on the D will be one season...

 

[lostar2009]

look around the league. the "process" of "getting your guys/philosophy implemented" is taking half the time to complete with other teams....why are things moving so slow in dallas? if he doesn't at least win one playoff game then you cut ties with garrett.

Because we are scared to let players go or to step on other players feet until it is too late.

 

[BigStar]

That's actually a very poignant question.

I can't say for certain who I'd take, but I admit I'm leaning towards Reid.

Just being honest... Not hating our football coach.

Reid has confidence, JG has no direction or conviction. Reid could and may still win a SB resulting from blind luck and his offensive intuitiveness although not always in the right playcalling manner. Passing does win, and with a good D, he could vey well win a SB in KC when eventually finds a QB throwing to receivers consistently instead of predetermined check downs as a result of the QB's inability to read a secondary and the stones to throw when wr's ARE open.

 

[john van brocklin]

Dude, it aint happening. I'm not arguing whether it SHOULD happen....of course I think it should happen....but we are not gonna get rid of JG that fast. 7-9 and no playoffs and I think he is back. Only way I see him fired this year is if the team loses like their last 5 games and there are reports the team tuned him out. Other than that, he is your head coach.

Unfortunity I think you are spot on

 

[kramskoi]

Huh? TTexas, do you just make this stuff up and hope nobody fact checks you?

49ers: 2004-2010 records

2010: 6-10
2009: 8-8
2008: 7-9
2007: 5-11
2006: 7-9
2005: 4-12
2004: 2-14

Those are terrible examples? All of those teams went (or will go in the case of Chiefs) from the dumpster the year before to the playoffs with their new coach.

Isn't that what Cowboy's fans want?

[/quote]

The heck with that. I want to experience what happens when a perrenial 8-8 club gets an infusion of head coaching talent...Superbowl maybe?

Again, as I've said in many posts over the years, I'm not happy with the current situation and I'm not certain Garrett is the guy to lead us to the promised land. I've gone from I'm not sure I like what I'm seeing to I'm on the fence to I'm starting to really like some of the things I see. What I'm seeing is a team that is tough and plays hard thru the whistle not ever giving up. That's character and comes from acquiring the right guys, getting rid of the wrong ones and leading with character which Garrett has in spades. I see us rising out of a huge talent deficit hole despite having cap problems. I see much better drafting. So some of the best things a coach can do is recognize talent, get it on the field, coach it properly and weed out the detrimental element. I definitely see the team heading in the right direction although you're not seeing it in the record yet. BTW, I've never forgotten how a guy took a 1-7 team and turned it into a 5-3 team that could've had even a better record and did it with a backup QB. Those guys didn't quit either and they had quit on Wade. Having the respect of your players is vital esp with a professional team.

You can throw the record out on this team this and last year. So you just can't look at that and properly evaluate Garrett and his staff.

I like the fact he ditched Ryan and went to Marinelli and Kiffin. The reasoning for that was just as he said, we weren't getting any turnovers. I like the toughness of the team, how hard they play, the swarming to the ball, playing thru the whistle, working for turnovers, the chemistry on the team, how well they've done with Dez and taking talent deficit teams (mostly due to injury the last two years) and still competed for a shot at the playoffs.

I'm sure there is more I'm leaving off but the team is on the upswing. I'd give him another two years before making any tough decisions.

Well, there's plenty that Garrett has done that there is to like and compare to Lovie. You guys just want to look at someone's won/loss record, SB rings, yada and refuse to look at what the guy has done for this team to date. You can't evaluate a young coach who has no skins on the wall the same way you do someone who's been around awhile.

One reason I used Landry was not just to refute someone's argument about time singularly as a judgment. Everyone wanted Landry run out of town because he just couldn't win. Clint knew better because he saw what it takes even though Landry had yet to do it. Well, maybe Garrett has 'it' and maybe not. But you can't evaluate the guy over the last year and a half because he's not had a decent defense to put on the field. That's why I say he gets another two years as long as I'm seeing progress in enough areas.

Someone asked what do I see.

OL rebuilt to the point its pretty good. Free is now one of the better tackles in the league and Smith ain't bad. We have a C. There is some depth there although I still nervous about that.

Romo is continuing to develop as a QB. Sure he had a down year last year stat wise but that can happen when you're asked to carry the team. Dez has become a force in the league. WR is a strength now instead of a joke and that's without Austin on the field. TE continues to be a strength and although a lot don't like Escobar he has talent and so does Hanna. RB looks better although Murray can't stay healthy. Dunbar and Randle are players although still young, unproven and with some warts.

LB is a strength instead of a running joke. Huge. DL looks like crap but you can't hang Ratliff on Garrett. Ware or Spencer either. You can credit Garrett with Hatcher though. There weren't many here who saw how good Hatcher was but the coaches did and have since Wade early on. And Garrett brought Marinelli here and he's been DL coach of the year AFAIC. You can laugh at Kiffin but we went from one of the worse teams in the league in TO to one of the best. While S is still a concern it is better with Church and the coaches did see that potential. And Wilcox is going to be a player. You can't fault the coach for not having more resources to work with. I'd say they've done as good as they can with what they have which isn't much on D right now. Can't blame Garrett for Claiborne unless you know he drove that pick which AFAIK he didn't. He didn't drive the Carr pick either although that was ok talent wise just not money wise.

Overall talent and depth have steadily risen since Parcells got here and has accelerated since Garrett has been head coach. Esp at the bottom of the roster but at the top as well.

You can find fault in Garrett with the in game decisions and all know that. Are you going to fire him over that? And ignore the rest of the good things.

The Cowboys don't really have much "real" depth at all. Not on either line or the secondary. They will continue to suffer until that changes. Injuries happen every year to every team yet still the team must soldier on. You saw a complete defensive collapse in Detroit on the back end. The key to the season might boil down to the health of "hamstrung" Claiborne and creaky "hinge" Wilcox. Waters to IR could be fatal to Romo as well. Too many bad drafts. 3 current contributors over 34 picks is rather dismal.

"We're seeing the sad results of the meager '06-'09 draft harvests. These drafts should have provided the veteran core of this team, the 5-8 year veteran base. Anthony Spencer's quiet end means that Dallas has only three contributors from the 34 picks it expended in those drafts, which coincide with the Wade Phillips' arrival and Jerry's "fun again" return. Only Jason Hatcher, Doug Free and Orlando Scandrick soldier on in blue and silver. A 3rd rounder, a 4th rounder and 5th rounder, respectively. Let's not forget that Dallas released Hatcher after the 2010 season and came very close to cutting Free. How dire would this team's outlook be today without those two?"

http://www.cowboyszone.com/2013/10/the-cowboys-at-midway-point-reaping.html

 

[Alexander]

This is a win now league. Most coaches get three years. He needs to win a playoff game or he'll be gone. Jerry wont be able to justify his return any other way.

His contract runs through 2014. Unless things completely collapse this season, I think he will be back.

And no, I am not making a prediction based on anything else other than the fact Jerry Jones hates to pay coaches who are no longer around.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Because usually scrub teams don't have QB, we do. When it comes to competing against equal or better teams, where scheme, play calling, game management, execution and adjustments come into play, the odds are against us.

Excellent point.

 

[Beast_from_East]

There are some posters on this board who proclaimed Garrett as the savior as soon as he was hired without waiting for any evidence to suggest that he could even be a halfway decent HC

These posters' self esteem is tied to Garrett being a success because their wagons are hitched to Garrett not just the cowboys

If Garrett fails but the cowboys go on to find success with another HC they would have to admit that all their "believe" and "faith" stuff was just rubbish and they would not be able the bear it

These same posters will come to rub everyone's faces in the mud if this team makes the playoffs at 8-8 in a horrible division and are one and done in the playoffs and will crow to no end ....touting it as a success... Ignoring the obvious problems on the team

Of course they want the cowboys to win but For them It is not enough that the cowboys win, it has to be Garrett that leads us there otherwise they will have to admit they were wrong in anointing Garrett

It is no different than Jerry
Of course he wants the cowboys to win but he wants it to be with him as GM
that is why he does not get another GM, because if he does and the cowboys succeed, he would have to admit he was incompetent as a GM and wasted years and his ego can't take it

In both these examples people are putting their ego before the team

These are the most strident Garrett supporters on the board and they will find an excuse to explain away every problem the team faces

These are the Garrett groupies

One of the best post on this board.

 

[Alexander]

Yea but we already had a good QB when Garrett took over. It shouldn't be this difficult.

He has been working with this QB as long as he has been employed as an offensive coordinator.

By this point, after nearly seven years of continuity, these two should be working seamlessly together.

Are they?

If you believe in statistics, yes. If you believe in results, not really.

 

[loublue22]

should have been fired after the Baltimore game

 

[odog422]

Well, I meant at the present time about the won-loss record. Obviously it doesn't matter in the end about excuses or how wonderful a guy you are if you can't win. OTOH, if you're in charge of putting a team out there then you can't throw your hands up every 2-3 years and rotate another body out there. Maybe you get lucky but for me that's a sure fire way to spend eternity in mediocrity at the best. You can't change coaches, schemes et al constantly and expect your guys to be able to play well immediately.

Jerry sees the organization flowing in the right direction so he needs to stick with that. And again you cannot evaluate the last year and a half on the field with what the defense has had to make do with. No HC is going to do well under those circumstance unless he's already loaded. And I respectfully disagree about the lack of talent on this team when Jason took over. I agree the cupboard was not bare but we've had to find four new OL and basically build a new defense with a few exceptions. Thanks goodness for Romo. Go look at the rosters from 2009-2010 and todays' roster. Look at the injuries and who we've had to play. Sure that's making excuses for the inconsistent play and the defense but then that's the only fair and realistic way to look at the situation if you're without an agenda except to win. You can't fire your employees for failing to do their job when they don't have the tools to do their job.

I'm not sure how you're trying to differentiate about the timing of the won-loss record. I think my initial point remains valid - wins and losses always matter. I agree with you about the futility of changing coaches every three years, however, again its about W's and L's. Not advocating fire Garrett midseason either. I think that's an absolute no-win. Admittedly, not a fan of the Garrett hire, because I thought my Boys deserved better, i.e., someone with experience and a successful coaching track record. But I understand the parameters that affect prospects for consideration and what almost any new hire would have to endure - Jerry - so it nothing else, I was willing to give Garrett a chance. What is most distressing, is in the arena that is most important, the direct actions that influence winning and losing a football game, I have seen no improvement and the same mistakes repeated. I don't think the guy is dumb, I just dont think he is HC material based on what I've seen, or haven't seen to more accurate.

I think Jerry sees that Jerry sees the natives are getting restless at the results on the field and he is doing what he can to not get the national talk started on "fire Garrett" so he comes out and offers the positive eval now. IMO he also understands firing Garrett midseason is a no-win. As for scheme, the major scheme changes have been on defense. We have been running the same offense since Garrett was OC and have had the same inconsistencies that have plauged the defense. So then its personnel and not scheme? As I said before, I'm pretty simple in my evaluation - did we win or lose? If we win, I don't take credit away from Garrett because the other team sucked or we got great calls from the refs, so conversely, we lose and he receives the blame IMO. Injuries are huge issue for all teams because depth is so hard to maintain in today's NFL. I agree, thank goodness for Romo, but I also think he has been done a disservice by this staff, but that's another story. That said, we can agree to disagree on the talent question.

 

[kevm3]

Garrett won't be fired after this year. We already have the built in excuses lined up. Kiffen will be fired first. We'll get another DC and have the same problems next year as this year.

 

[jobberone]

I'm not sure how you're trying to differentiate about the timing of the won-loss record. I think my initial point remains valid - wins and losses always matter. I agree with you about the futility of changing coaches every three years, however, again its about W's and L's. Not advocating fire Garrett midseason either. I think that's an absolute no-win. Admittedly, not a fan of the Garrett hire, because I thought my Boys deserved better, i.e., someone with experience and a successful coaching track record. But I understand the parameters that affect prospects for consideration and what almost any new hire would have to endure - Jerry - so it nothing else, I was willing to give Garrett a chance. What is most distressing, is in the arena that is most important, the direct actions that influence winning and losing a football game, I have seen no improvement and the same mistakes repeated. I don't think the guy is dumb, I just dont think he is HC material based on what I've seen, or haven't seen to more accurate.

I think Jerry sees that Jerry sees the natives are getting restless at the results on the field and he is doing what he can to not get the national talk started on "fire Garrett" so he comes out and offers the positive eval now. IMO he also understands firing Garrett midseason is a no-win. As for scheme, the major scheme changes have been on defense. We have been running the same offense since Garrett was OC and have had the same inconsistencies that have plauged the defense. So then its personnel and not scheme? As I said before, I'm pretty simple in my evaluation - did we win or lose? If we win, I don't take credit away from Garrett because the other team sucked or we got great calls from the refs, so conversely, we lose and he receives the blame IMO. Injuries are huge issue for all teams because depth is so hard to maintain in today's NFL. I agree, thank goodness for Romo, but I also think he has been done a disservice by this staff, but that's another story. That said, we can agree to disagree on the talent question.

Well, we differ in our assessment of the ability of the coach to be successful. I've not been saying winning and losing is not a component in evaluating the coach. I'm saying that is part of the evaluation. I've thrown out the last last year and this year because I can't evaluate how well Garrett can be with the players he has had to put out there on defense. In the end you have to use winning and losing but we're not at the end IMO. You can't give someone a jeweler's hammer and tell them to build a house with it. And you must have reasonable expectations about how to build a winning team. I submit that Garrett hasn't had a chance given all the constraints and now injuries to put a consistent winner on the field. I don't think anyone could have repaired this mess by now given the same problems. And none of what I'm saying really has anything to do with Garrett specifically nor do I care who the coach is as long as he's doing his job. It will take another two years to finish evaluating Garrett assuming we can put a reasonable amount of starters on the field. What I do hold Garrett responsible for is doing what he can. He's not always doing that but then no one does. Limiting failure and make wise decisions to not repeat it as well as adjusting to the situation is all you can ask. Given some problems that are well documented right now Garrett has us on the road.

 

[Tommy]

i'm not going to cry about anything, i'm going to laugh in your face when he's fired after next year.

You have already guaranteed he will be fired this year.

 

[dropdeadfred5]

Bottom line is wins and losses and anyone claiming that is NOT the most important factor is a fool.

WHAT coaches were in place for 3 years -did not make it to the playoffs and then went on to win a SB?

If we do not make it to the playoffs this year that will be three full seasons that we were at best mediocre and barely a playoff threat.

Anyone using Tom Landry as some kind of comparison is full of crap. The league, situation, EVERYTHING was different 50 years ago. Trying to deflect criticism of a current coach with one of 50 years ago is being a cheap lawyer trying to get the guilty off on a technicality.

Tom Landry started out on an expansion team. JG did not.
Tom Landry had no draft his first season. JG did.
Tom Landry was allowed to pick 3 players not protected from each NFL team. Needless to say they were garbage. JG had a full roster to start out with.
Tom Landry at the same time was competing against another league (AFL). JG is not.
Tom Landry had no QB. JG does.
No team in the history of the NFL started out with less then the Boys and Tom Landry. JG took over a team that was only one year removed from a division championship.

 

[waving monkey]

Jerry and quality decision?

Garrett is the worst head coach in the league. How many more seasons does he need to prove it?

Garrett id a fine coach and will get two more years .After 2015 though the "W's" have to start turning into play off wins

No, they wouldn't.

What's really weird is fans accepting this type of mediocrity, year after year after, and continue to make the same excuses. It's like some of you guys are paid by Jerry to post his propaganda around here.

I accept the "Mediocrity" because it's a process

 

[Sarge]

I've seen enough of Garrett to formulate my opinion that he is not a quality head coach. Frankly, he' pretty average, thus the .500 record. It took me 2 years to come to that conclusion.

Having said that - it has taken me 8 games to know that Kiffen needs to be fired like.............yesterday.

 

[noshame]

Garrett did his best work when he took over the team from Wade, suddenly they were prepared, showed up ready to play, and were focused. I thought he was all that. Since then we've had false starts every season, that's a simple fix. Some games we seem flat out of the gate.

If we lose this game today, Jerry will begin making plans for life after Garrett.

 

[Zordon]

You have already guaranteed he will be fired this year.

yep you are right.

 

[Dodger12]

I've seen enough of Garrett to formulate my opinion that he is not a quality head coach. Frankly, he' pretty average, thus the .500 record. It took me 2 years to come to that conclusion.

Having said that - it has taken me 8 games to know that Kiffen needs to be fired like.............yesterday.

I had high hopes when JG got promoted. I hated Phillips and hated the day he was hired by Jerry. I bought into the hype that Garrett was a bright, up and coming, offensive mind. I also figured since he played under Jimmy that he saw first hand how a well run program functioned, at least on the football field. It became apparent in his first full season that he was in way over his head. There's just no substitute for experience and working your way up the ranks. I was dead wrong on JG but that's how bad I wanted Phillips gone.

JG is one of the worst HC's in this franchise's history. He ranks right up there with Campo, except he's missing the field trip to Sea World and the punch clock.