How long until Belichick is considered the greatest ever?

[burmafrd]

There were also a lot fewer teams back then. Almost a completely different league. That's why its so hard to compare from different era's. Otto Graham won more Championships than Montana. But for my money, Montana is the greatest QB of all time.

In two separate leagues, Otto Graham led his team to the Championship game every year he played. Won 4 in the AAFL and 3 in the NFL. 7 Titles in all

 

[DeaconBlues]

Curly Lambeau? Really? I mean, unless you're the only person in the rest home to have wifi, you've never seen him coach a game. Same goes for the others on your list. You can't compare Belichick coaching professional athletes (and working 24 hours a day) to Curly Lambeau coaching part time players.

But to put Sid Gillman, John Madden and George Allen above Belichick is laughable. Just because they coached a long time ago and Belichick coaches now, doesn't mean they're automatically better. Belichick has more Super Bowl wins as a head coach than all of them combined, plus two as an assistant. He's one of the best of all time. Put down the haterade.

Ah, the foibles of youth.

Never mind looking up the stats, which would show why Lambeau et. al. are all better coaches than Bellichick. Lets go with the stupidity that "you've never seen him coach a game." So, in your warped mind, nothing exists unless you've personally viewed it?

So, the first 39-odd Presidents don't count? Revolutionary War? Civil War?
WWI or WWII?

In a modern parlance you may understand: "C'mon man!!"

I get it. Nothing happened before 1991. If it hasn't replayed on NFL network, it doesn't count.

Sometimes I really fear for this country. :bang2:

 

[KJJ]

Belichick is a great coach but he didn't become a great coach until Tom Brady became his QB. If you look at Belichick's career head coaching record before Brady and with Brady it's night and day. With the Browns from 91 to 95 Belichick had only one winning season and one playoff win. His record was 36-44 with the Browns which got him fired. His first season as the Pats HC in 2000 with Bledsoe at QB Belichick was 5-11. In 2001 Belichick started off 0-2 with Bledsoe then like magic it all changed for Belichick when Bledsoe was injured and Tom Brady came trotting in to take over.

With Brady as his QB Belichick's record is 134-42 and 3 SB wins. Before Brady Belichick was just another head coach who would have probably ended up being fired again and been back as a coordinator had Brady not come along. Every HC is a product of their players primarily their QB. Most "great" head coaches had a great QB with the exception of Parcells, Gibbs and maybe a few others.

 

[JoeCorrado]

He's top 5, but not greatest ever and never will be considered that unless he wins like 5 or 6 Super Bowls.

Then so is Jimmy Johnson.

Don't know why BB would crack top 5 in any list unless it is most over-rated, most-dis liked, most devious. And I actually like the guy. He is aggressive and confident- it spreads to his players and coaches, it rattles the other teams, it works.

BUT, just imagine, what if the recording and use of opponents play calls were ever "proven" instead of simply suspected? What if it were shown that his perceived "greatness" were in any way, great or small- a result of cheating?

An asterisk will always be by his name in my book... UNTIL he shows the same success that led to this thread occurring AFTER the cameras were turned off. To date, no such thing has happened. Leads me to believe that the two were related to some degree.

Imagine if it were the Cowboys accused of such under the table handicapping? Of course, good old genius Bill, he gets a pass... just sweep it under the rug and hang the "Top 5 Greatest Ever" tag on him. I'm sure it can be made to fit if we forget the baggage.

 

[cowboys2233]

Now I know many of you will go crazy praising Landry but Belichick's accomplishments are becoming undeniable, he he continually built good teams for over a decade now. He has replaced great players time and time again with ease with the prowess in the draft room. He has shown on the field that he is unparalleled and he has shown that he can replace a key player, no matter who they are, without trouble.


I truly believe that it is just a matter of a few years until he is unanimously viewed as the greatest coach of all time. So when does he officially become the greatest coach of all time in the minds of fans? or if he even will. He's already top 3 and if you try to deny that you really are just being ignorant.

I find it interesting that most of these potential greatest coaches of all time also tended to have one of the greatest QBs of all time on their roster. Yes, he is a good coach, but when you've got Tom Brady, you've got major flexibility and leeway. But it is pretty impressive that they made two big-name "splashes" in FA this year, Haynesworth and Ochocinco, both have been big-time busts, and the team is STILL the #1 seed in the AFC.

 

[nathanlt]

Bill Belicheck will never be mentioned among the great coaches in the NFL.

Unless your definition of greatness includes cheating and dishonesty.

*

 

[TNCowboy]

I think he's a good coach but I also think Brady may make him look better than he is.

If he can win big without Brady I'd put him right up there with anyone. Until he does, he's a good coach who won with the greatest QB and didn't do anything without him.

Did Roger Staubach make Landry look great? Landry won a lot of games before and after Roger, but only with Roger did he win championships. Did Walsh win anything without Montana? Would Jimmy Johnson have won anything without Aikman? Lombardi without Starr? Noll without Bradshaw?

You could put this qualifier on almost any coach. Siefert won with 2 different QBs, yet he wasn't worthy of carrying Walsh's clipboard.

Don Shula is unquestionably one of the greatest ever, but he won SBs with Griese, then couldn't win with Marino, easily the greatest QB he would ever have.

Colin Cowherd said that of all the players, ex-coaches, etc that come on his show, there's almost uniform agreement that Belichick is the best coach in the NFL and no one is a close second.

It would be hard for me to make a list of the 5 greatest coaches of the SB era without including Belichick. Yeah, he had Brady, but he also often had teams that didn't have a dominant player apart from Brady. Yet he's won 3 SBs, and won more games over the last decade than anyone every has over a similar timeframe. And unlike most of the other guys, Belichick did all this in a league more set up for parity and in the era of free agency and the salary cap.

 

[TNCowboy]

Bill Belicheck will never be mentioned among the great coaches in the NFL.

Unless your definition of greatness includes cheating and dishonesty.

*

Jimmy Johnson said he did it as well, and so did everyone else. I guess we should give those 3 Lombardis from the 90s back.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

You didn't say Landry failed, that was someone else making that case my bad, but you're part of the group telling us all great coaches are tied to one great QB.

But if you take the Staubach years away from Landry he still enjoyed years of success. If you take the Brady years away from Belichick, he's Dave Campo in a cutoff sweatshirt.

Ahhhh my bad.

I miss understood your position here.

For some reason I thought you were saying that a coach had to win multiple championships and do it with different QBs and such for it to be as impressive. I guess I took your stance on this wrong.


Landry had some great success, just never Championship success without Roger.


And like i said Gibbs is the only Coach that I can think of whose taken multiple QBs to Superbowl championships.


The only other would be Parcells who won 2 with 2 different QBs and appeared in a 3rd with yet another one.

 

[Dfense94]

Did Roger Staubach make Landry look great? Landry won a lot of games before and after Roger, but only with Roger did he win championships. Did Walsh win anything without Montana? Would Jimmy Johnson have won anything without Aikman? Lombardi without Starr? Noll without Bradshaw?

You could put this qualifier on almost any coach. Siefert won with 2 different QBs, yet he wasn't worthy of carrying Walsh's clipboard.

Don Shula is unquestionably one of the greatest ever, but he won SBs with Griese, then couldn't win with Marino, easily the greatest QB he would ever have.

Colin Cowherd said that of all the players, ex-coaches, etc that come on his show, there's almost uniform agreement that Belichick is the best coach in the NFL and no one is a close second.

It would be hard for me to make a list of the 5 greatest coaches of the SB era without including Belichick. Yeah, he had Brady, but he also often had teams that didn't have a dominant player apart from Brady. Yet he's won 3 SBs, and won more games over the last decade than anyone every has over a similar timeframe. And unlike most of the other guys, Belichick did all this in a league more set up for parity and in the era of free agency and the salary cap.

Boom. Headshot.

 

[TNCowboy]

Ahhhh my bad.

I miss understood your position here.

For some reason I thought you were saying that a coach had to win multiple championships and do it with different QBs and such for it to be as impressive. I guess I took your stance on this wrong.


Landry had some great success, just never Championship success without Roger.


And like i said Gibbs is the only Coach that I can think of whose taken multiple QBs to Superbowl championships.


The only other would be Parcells who won 2 with 2 different QBs and appeared in a 3rd with yet another one.

George Siefert.

 

[nathanlt]

Jimmy Johnson said he did it as well, and so did everyone else. I guess we should give those 3 Lombardis from the 90s back.

Who said anything about giving Lombardi trophies back? Don't distract from the topic, greatness in head coaching.

Greatness does not include cheating and dishonesty, no matter who does it.

 

[Zaxor]

Plus got to NFL Championship games with Meredith...

Thank you CL ...yes he did

 

[Dfense94]

Bill Belicheck will never be mentioned among the great coaches in the NFL.

Unless your definition of greatness includes cheating and dishonesty.

*

I guess youre just oblivious to the fact that he already is widely regarded as being the best head coach in football, and one of the best of all times.

 

[burmafrd]

Best in the NFL right now is not exactly a huge bar to jump over.

 

[nathanlt]

I guess youre just oblivious to the fact that he already is widely regarded as being the best head coach in football, and one of the best of all times.

Again, do you include cheating and dishonesty in your definition of best head coach?

It doesn't matter if many people "widely regard" him as the best if they are using a horrible definition.

Who cares if someone wins the popular vote for best head coach, if most people don't respect his character?

 

[Risen Star]

Ahhhh my bad.

I miss understood your position here.

For some reason I thought you were saying that a coach had to win multiple championships and do it with different QBs and such for it to be as impressive. I guess I took your stance on this wrong.

You must have. I'm just saying when you want to have the discussion of the greatest coach of all time, the main knock against Belichick would be his performance without Brady.

Now he could go on to coach another 10-15 years and erase all that. I'll tip my cap to him if he does.

I'd love to see him leave New England and take over a team in need of rebuilding. It'd be interesting to see how he'd do.

 

[JoeCorrado]

Jimmy Johnson said he did it as well, and so did everyone else. I guess we should give those 3 Lombardis from the 90s back.

Don't recall that interview, and I don't recall the similarities if any, or in fact that he says he violated league rules in any way, now that you mention it.

Care to provide a link? Particularly interested in the fines and declaration by the league that Landry or Johnson ever, ever, ever did things that could be construed as cheating- even if they were allowed several days to remove any evidence at the crime scene.

Back in the day, accusations flew between Landry and Allen, part of the original Commanders / Cowboy rivalry. Spies in motel rooms over looking practice fields and such. Those accusations actually were one way, Landry accusing Allen.

Who said anything about giving Lombardi trophies back? Don't distract from the topic, greatness in head coaching.

Greatness does not include cheating and dishonesty, no matter who does it.

And as I mentioned; If Bill is top five, then so is Johnson. Since Johnson is not, and should not be considered top 5 ever, not sure that argument this valid. In fact, I know it isn't. The poster who interjects the argument, is out of bounds as regards this thread.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

There have been a few great head coaches in the NFL. However, the line starts behind Paul Brown IMO.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

no surprise the youngest posters here are in agreement


and lol at R2A calling anyone ignorant

Well you certainly have proved you are.