I’d trade for Stafford in a heart beat

[KJJ]

I was wrong. I said a team would give up a first round pick, well how about 2 first round picks and third and their QB?

Crazy trade for a 33-year-old QB who’s never won a playoff game and is 20 games below 500. I could see a trade like that for Deshaun Watson but not Matthew Stafford.

 

[RichmondFan]

LOL.

so with 30M you want to get a Saftey, CB, DT, RG and DT.....LOL, didn't we do that this past year, signing 4 defensive players that didn't make it to mid season....half you all complain about bargain basement shopping, the other half thinks the good players will just sign in Dallas, because well we are the cowboys...too funny

and when was the last time a team signed bunch of FAs and succeeded defensively? when was the last time a team built through FA?

and then, then you want to keep Dalton...the guys who couldn't beat or even compete or keep the team close while playing against other teams starting QBs and was only able to beat the other teams that had their back up QBs, with the help of 9 turnovers...I guess all those stars you are planning to sign with 30M is going to make this an all time best defense to over come Dalton's incompetence.....LOL

gawd oh mighty

Well, maybe only 3 defensive players. You can sign high quality f/a safeties, CB, DT with 35 million. No bargain basement FAs. That goes a long way to improve the roster into a contender. Currently they're just not gonna be able to field a good team after signing Dak because they will be in salary cap hell.. The defense is just too awful. And the draft ain't gonna solve the problem! If they want to contend for a super bowl they have to improve that defense and the only way to do it is to jettison Dak. Sad but true!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Well, maybe only 3 defensive players. You can sign high quality f/a safeties, CB, DT with 35 million. No bargain basement FAs. That goes a long way to improve the roster into a contender. Currently they're just not gonna be able to field a good team after signing Dak because they will be in salary cap hell.. The defense is just too awful. And the draft ain't gonna solve the problem! If they want to contend for a super bowl they have to improve that defense and the only way to do it is to jettison Dak. Sad but true!

10M per player your are still looking at average players not bargain basement. and you are not going to build a formidable defense with a bunch of average players, while your QB play will drop to the bottom of the barrell. so your offense will struggle and your defense will be average and results will be the same. the only teams that really found success through their defense were perhaps Bears with Grossman, they had a great defense, Ravens with Flacco, and Dilfer and they had all time best defenses and perhaps 2018 SF that was loaded defensively and Denver with an almost washed up manning. but they all did it through draft not FA... Denver sign Ware, one key player, but they drafted miller, Jackson and few of their other players and signed Ware as a key FA and couple of mid level players...the other 51 superbowl teams, did it via average type defenses and great QB play (even if they caught lightening in the bottle).

if we don't fix our defensive drafts. we can have 100M on the cap and still not be able to build a formidable defense that would be needed with bargain basement QB

 

[RichmondFan]

10M per player your are still looking at average players not bargain basement. and you are not going to build a formidable defense with a bunch of average players, while your QB play will drop to the bottom of the barrell. so your offense will struggle and your defense will be average and results will be the same. the only teams that really found success through their defense were perhaps Bears with Grossman, they had a great defense, Ravens with Flacco, and Dilfer and they had all time best defenses and perhaps 2018 SF that was loaded defensively and Denver with an almost washed up manning. but they all did it through draft not FA... Denver sign Ware, one key player, but they drafted miller, Jackson and few of their other players and signed Ware as a key FA and couple of mid level players...the other 51 superbowl teams, did it via average type defenses and great QB play (even if they caught lightening in the bottle).

if we don't fix our defensive drafts. we can have 100M on the cap and still not be able to build a formidable defense that would be needed with bargain basement QB

$30 million CAN get you quality players. You don't do 10 million apiece. You can get a top safety for $14, a good corner for $8 (there's a lot of CB's on the market this year) and a good f/a DT for $8, especially if the DT is a run stuffer. Rankins is a good run stuffing 3 technique who you could get for $8. Signing Dak at $35 leaves you with almost no cap room. You're not gonna get well in 1 draft!

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

$30 million CAN get you quality players. You don't do 10 million apiece. You can get a top safety for $14, a good corner for $8 (there's a lot of CB's on the market this year) and a good f/a DT for $8, especially if the DT is a run stuffer. Rankins is a good run stuffing 3 technique who you could get for $8. Signing Dak at $35 leaves you with almost no cap room. You're not gonna get well in 1 draft!

but what do you do with the QB position? get Gilbert to play the position? and you know in FA you over pay, all FAs are over paid....so you are OK to over pay for a saftey, btw, top safeties cost around 20M these days. good CBs cost 16M (if you consider Byron Jones good)....and we got two cheap DT in Poe and McCoy, both over the hill, just working on their last contract and one injury prone.....so you say we should over pay for a bunch of middle of the pack (not elite) defensive players and that's OK, "hey, lets over spend by 5,6 M for these FAs, that are not elite...I am ok with it...." and then go cheap at QB position and that over all is going to make the team better?..... how exactly?

the problem isn't we didn't have money, we did. we spent mid level money on 4 players, but we just signed all the wrong ones, seemingly other teams signed mid level players that produce. Damien Wilson and Hitchens and Ward were on the cowboys and now playing at KC for similar contracts.....they are producing and playing well. we on the other hand, signed 4, and by mid season let all of them go. we on the other hand sign a DC that came from MIT and wanted to implement a defensive scheme only he understood. we have 7 of the largest NFL positional contracts on the team. Jaylon is not producing. Lawrence is not producing. we have handed out large contracts to players like them and they dont' produce and in some way, Jaylon is actually a liability. KC signs Mathieu and Jones and look at what they do for their team....we decide to pay average of 14M to a RG....I love Martin. I really do, I think he is great and a future HOFer, but he counts 7% of the cap....which team ever won a superbowl when their gaurd counted 7% of the cap? and without googling, can you tell me the starting guards for the CG teams? again, I really like Martin, but was that a wise signing? was that money well spent!!!

so we hand out extra money to Zeke, with two years on his contract. pay cooper 20M. over pay for Lawrence and Jaylon. pay a RG 14M a year and now want to just go cheap on QB, because its 3M more than I like....does that sound like a wise approach to managing a cap?

 

[RichmondFan]

but what do you do with the QB position? get Gilbert to play the position? and you know in FA you over pay, all FAs are over paid....so you are OK to over pay for a saftey, btw, top safeties cost around 20M these days. good CBs cost 16M (if you consider Byron Jones good)....and we got two cheap DT in Poe and McCoy, both over the hill, just working on their last contract and one injury prone.....so you say we should over pay for a bunch of middle of the pack (not elite) defensive players and that's OK, "hey, lets over spend by 5,6 M for these FAs, that are not elite...I am ok with it...." and then go cheap at QB position and that over all is going to make the team better?..... how exactly?

the problem isn't we didn't have money, we did. we spent mid level money on 4 players, but we just signed all the wrong ones, seemingly other teams signed mid level players that produce. Damien Wilson and Hitchens and Ward were on the cowboys and now playing at KC for similar contracts.....they are producing and playing well. we on the other hand, signed 4, and by mid season let all of them go. we on the other hand sign a DC that came from MIT and wanted to implement a defensive scheme only he understood. we have 7 of the largest NFL positional contracts on the team. Jaylon is not producing. Lawrence is not producing. we have handed out large contracts to players like them and they dont' produce and in some way, Jaylon is actually a liability. KC signs Mathieu and Jones and look at what they do for their team....we decide to pay average of 14M to a RG....I love Martin. I really do, I think he is great and a future HOFer, but he counts 7% of the cap....which team ever won a superbowl when their gaurd counted 7% of the cap? and without googling, can you tell me the starting guards for the CG teams? again, I really like Martin, but was that a wise signing? was that money well spent!!!

so we hand out extra money to Zeke, with two years on his contract. pay cooper 20M. over pay for Lawrence and Jaylon. pay a RG 14M a year and now want to just go cheap on QB, because its 3M more than I like....does that sound like a wise approach to managing a cap?

Good points but the bottom line is the team simply is not gonna get much better by forking out $35MM to a good but not great QB. They have too many needs on defense. Quality and quantity on defense is the only way now and you can't get there in one Draft. Dalton is adequate and Zach Wilson may turn out to be even better than Dak because he has all the same skill sets except much better accuracy on the deep ball and the crossing routes. And infinitely more affordable

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Good points but the bottom line is the team simply is not gonna get much better by forking out $35MM to a good but not great QB. They have too many needs on defense. Quality and quantity on defense is the only way now and you can't get there in one Draft. Dalton is adequate and Zach Wilson may turn out to be even better than Dak because he has all the same skill sets except much better accuracy on the deep ball and the crossing routes. And infinitely more affordable

I am worried about the money too, but you have to assess where the team is and what needs to be done to improve it. given its a QB driven league and understanding that Dak is not elite, I never said he was, but defintley top 10, then that's the market value. we are not going to fix this defense by over paying for mid level defensive players and throwing numbers at the problem, while going cheap at QB. over all that's going to back fire and end up a 6-10 team. I disagree that quantity is the way to go, quality is and you will pay for quality and there is only so many quality players available and you will over pay. we tried quantity this past year, throw 4 players at it and it back fired badly. and for the same price we could have kept Jones!!!

and I seriously don't like Dalton, he is not adequte, he sucks, plain and simple, to support him we would need to build a ravenesque defense given that Dalton is worse than Dilfer and there isn't enough talent or money to do that.

I am not opposed to drafting a QB, but if you take one in the first round, you are ready to move on from your current QB and go into a rebuilding mode. if you want to argue, that we should just rebuild, then fine, we can have that discussion, but 4 out of 5 QBs in the first round fail. chances of wilson turning out to be good is low and he does need a few seasons to develop, so then we will be right back where we are now, do we pay wilson 50M (five years from now) or do we go draft the next guy. at some point, you have to put all your eggs in the basket and make a go of it, and if it doesn't work out, you shed and try again. this one foot on one side of the fence and the other on the other side isnt' going to work. if we go with wilson, then signing high priced FAs for defense is futile, given by the time he is ready, they are older and cost more, etc.

and btw, every year, I hear this fan and that fan swear by this QB and that QB and 95% of the time they are wrong, but they will never mention it, until after 20 years, 20 drafts, they guess on one and then they will post and gloat....

Wilson is not the sure thing you are saying that he is....and if there is an 80% chance that he fails (history), then what do you do? you already have the sure thing at hand, make a go of it.

 

[DFWJC]

I was wrong. I said a team would give up a first round pick, well how about 2 first round picks and third and their QB?

No, you were right in the first place if you meant a 1st in this year's draft.
Draft capital-wise, Detroit gave up the equivalent of the 20th-23rd pick in this year's draft.

 

[RichmondFan]

I am worried about the money too, but you have to assess where the team is and what needs to be done to improve it. given its a QB driven league and understanding that Dak is not elite, I never said he was, but defintley top 10, then that's the market value. we are not going to fix this defense by over paying for mid level defensive players and throwing numbers at the problem, while going cheap at QB. over all that's going to back fire and end up a 6-10 team. I disagree that quantity is the way to go, quality is and you will pay for quality and there is only so many quality players available and you will over pay. we tried quantity this past year, throw 4 players at it and it back fired badly. and for the same price we could have kept Jones!!!

and I seriously don't like Dalton, he is not adequte, he sucks, plain and simple, to support him we would need to build a ravenesque defense given that Dalton is worse than Dilfer and there isn't enough talent or money to do that.

I am not opposed to drafting a QB, but if you take one in the first round, you are ready to move on from your current QB and go into a rebuilding mode. if you want to argue, that we should just rebuild, then fine, we can have that discussion, but 4 out of 5 QBs in the first round fail. chances of wilson turning out to be good is low and he does need a few seasons to develop, so then we will be right back where we are now, do we pay wilson 50M (five years from now) or do we go draft the next guy. at some point, you have to put all your eggs in the basket and make a go of it, and if it doesn't work out, you shed and try again. this one foot on one side of the fence and the other on the other side isnt' going to work. if we go with wilson, then signing high priced FAs for defense is futile, given by the time he is ready, they are older and cost more, etc.

and btw, every year, I hear this fan and that fan swear by this QB and that QB and 95% of the time they are wrong, but they will never mention it, until after 20 years, 20 drafts, they guess on one and then they will post and gloat....

Wilson is not the sure thing you are saying that he is....and if there is an 80% chance that he fails (history), then what do you do? you already have the sure thing at hand, make a go of it.

 

[RichmondFan]

I said quality AND quantity. 3 D vs 1 O who could be replaced in the draft. Circle back to me on Wilson in 2 years. I think I am right about him being good.. You can do both if you're smart. Look at the Eagles SB year. Lot's of defensive fa's. Look at the Rams when they went. Ton's of fa's. Look at KC now. Lot's of defensive fa's. Two of whom are Cowboys.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I said quality AND quantity. 3 D vs 1 O who could be replaced in the draft. Circle back to me on Wilson in 2 years. I think I am right about him being good.. You can do both if you're smart. Look at the Eagles SB year. Lot's of defensive fa's. Look at the Rams when they went. Ton's of fa's. Look at KC now. Lot's of defensive fa's. Two of whom are Cowboys.

I think the quantity has to come over several years, you complement your draft picks.....see what you picked right. what you didn't and you fill in the gap. no team is able to sign several high priced FAs in the market in one year or even several years in a row. it has too be done through draft.

and we will see about wilson in a few years.....what if he is not elite and he is a top 10ish QB and that's what you already have....and like I said, by the time he is ready, you have to renegotiate and he may cost 50-60M a year given the expected jump in salary cap in 2024. is a top 10 QB worth the market value of QBs of the time?

and its not just signing FAs with names we know, its signing the right FAs, that can produce and fit the scheme at the right price, which we haven't done, so what makes you trust the FO to pick the right FAs to sign?

Rams signed a few mid level FA and made trades for Talib and Peters (ala cooper), but core of their defense was from Draft and trades. like I said, you don't BUILD through FA. you build your core through draft and then complement with FAs if necessary
Eagles drafted their core as well, ala Cox, Graham, and made a trade or two and signed a couple of key mid level FAs (ala Long).....so again, not built through FA, but complemented through FA

and KC has their core in Jones, Thornhill, sneed, and signed a few mid level FAs like Hitchens and Ward and a high end FA in Mathieu. they didn't go hog wild signing FAs left and right and they didn't do it in one year, it happened over time...you draft, you figure out who stays who goes and then you complement and close the gap.

 

[RichmondFan]

I think the quantity has to come over several years, you complement your draft picks.....see what you picked right. what you didn't and you fill in the gap. no team is able to sign several high priced FAs in the market in one year or even several years in a row. it has too be done through draft.

and we will see about wilson in a few years.....what if he is not elite and he is a top 10ish QB and that's what you already have....and like I said, by the time he is ready, you have to renegotiate and he may cost 50-60M a year given the expected jump in salary cap in 2024. is a top 10 QB worth the market value of QBs of the time?

and its not just signing FAs with names we know, its signing the right FAs, that can produce and fit the scheme at the right price, which we haven't done, so what makes you trust the FO to pick the right FAs to sign?

Rams signed a few mid level FA and made trades for Talib and Peters (ala cooper), but core of their defense was from Draft and trades. like I said, you don't BUILD through FA. you build your core through draft and then complement with FAs if necessary
Eagles drafted their core as well, ala Cox, Graham, and made a trade or two and signed a couple of key mid level FAs (ala Long).....so again, not built through FA, but complemented through FA

and KC has their core in Jones, Thornhill, sneed, and signed a few mid level FAs like Hitchens and Ward and a high end FA in Mathieu. they didn't go hog wild signing FAs left and right and they didn't do it in one year, it happened over time...you draft, you figure out who stays who goes and then you complement and close the gap.

Well, yes your core is your draft. That has always been the case, but you need to fill several spots with F/As . Granted the Cowboys are pretty bad at getting good f/a's, but Jerry needs a better pro scouting department and he should listen to them and get out of the way.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Well, yes your core is your draft. That has always been the case, but you need to fill several spots with F/As . Granted the Cowboys are pretty bad at getting good f/a's, but Jerry needs a better pro scouting department and he should listen to them and get out of the way.

the problem has been we are good at drafting offense, but really bad on defense. since 2005, past 15 years, we have drafted Dak, Zeke, tyron, Martin, fredrick, CD, pollard, biasazs, schultz, gallup and found jarwin and collins.....all big contributors and core of the team, we also traded for cooper.

defensively, 44 picks, same period the impact players are Lawrence and Jones (and we let him go). not exactly a ringing endorsement of our defensive drafting prowess....

not sure why, but we just suck at defensive drafts and have had a few complete misses ala Claiborne and Taco. two first round picks that should have been corner stones of the team.

we need to fix that.....