CFZ I am flummoxed as to what to think about our draft

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Sure..he had more sacks with nfl talent all around him.

If you watched Mazi, you would see guys getting rid of the ball as they are hit. Also, his scheme did not call for him to be a penetrating DT...played a true nose in a 3-4.

Yet still managed to rack up 48 tackles while Jordan had his career high of 32.

You point out the rotation that Davis was in...if they didn't, he would have passed out on the field.

Mazi doesn't come off.

Doesn’t make your original comment any less incorrect. Davis was an NT too, and not in the big10. He was playing against NFL talent on a weekly basis

 

[bayeslife]

The draft was fine. The only thing I didn’t like was prioritizing the TE over the G, but Schoonmaker will double as a blocker and receiver so I can live with it.

 

[Ken]

Doesn’t make your original comment any less incorrect. Davis was an NT too, and not in the big10. He was playing against NFL talent on a weekly basis

13th pick in the draft vs 26th.

The production us the same at worst.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

13th pick in the draft vs 26th.

The production us the same at worst.

Pick spot doesn’t show anything. If Dallas moved up to top 10 and picked him there you could claim he was a top 10 guy. That doesn’t change the player he was. Jordan was a consensus top 15 pick. Mazi was expected by most to be a second rounder.

As for their stats, Do you think every player who didn’t produce with inferior teammates should get bonus points for things they didn’t do?

 

[VaqueroTD]

We put nearly all our draft capital into outliers.

Mazi has the worst college production you'll ever see for a 1st round DT. Schoonmaker will be a 25yo rookie in September - I can't remember an older rookie since Hayden Hurst or some BYU guys. Fehoko has the lowest broad jump of any defensive end in a decade, and that's an edge rusher's single most predictive drill.

We are betting heavily against the odds this year, and this draft has a lot of flameout potential.

I think that’s in the back of everyone’s head who remembers what happened in past drafts that were mostly need-based. When you’re picking late in a draft with less talent than usual and no one really dropping (other than Kentucky’s QB) it’s tough to look good though with your picks.

 

[Sydla]

Even less production? Jordan Davis had 5 tackles for loss his last season at Georgia even with their heavy Dline rotation and his limited number of snaps. Mazi had six his entire collegiate career. As in all years combined. Jordan had 7.5 sacks at Georgia playing only NT against SEC Olines. Mazi had 0.5, again his entire collegiate career.

I’m all for being excited for the guy, you should be as it’s a dire need you’ve wanted for 10+ years. But you don’t have to make stuff up to try and get people pumped.

True but Smith played in 11 less games so the gap ain't that great between the two.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

At this juncture nobody knows what the truth is. We need to see these guys on the field before we truly know. Sometimes we are super optimistic and are proven wrong , other times we are super pessimistic and we are proven wrong. Time well tell.

100%..

 

[jaythecowboy]

I doubt he was BPA there.

It was pretty obvious they wanted a TE leading up to the draft and probably would have taken Kincaid.

The Cowboys wanted a blocking TE who can play inline. Kincaid doesn't fit that mold at all. Schoonmaker is arguably the best blocking tight end in the draft (expecially with Washington medical issues). What that is worth is going to be different for different teams. People need to understand that teams don't all grade these players the same. The teams are looking at how the player fits what they want to do.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

True but Smith played in 11 less games so the gap ain't that great between the two.

Though due to the heavy rotational schemes he was in as well as the talent Jordan had ahead of him when he was younger, Smith had 1227 college snaps to Jordan’s 873.

I’m not trying to poo poo Smith, I think it was a good pick for you. but to even imply he’s a similar (or outright more productive) prospect is just… ignorant.

 

[Ken]

Pick spot doesn’t show anything. If Dallas moved up to top 10 and picked him there you could claim he was a top 10 guy. That doesn’t change the player he was. Jordan was a consensus top 15 pick. Mazi was expected by most to be a second rounder.

As for their stats, Do you think every player who didn’t produce with inferior teammates should get bonus points for things they didn’t do?

Consensus means nothing. Draft niks prove every year they are clueless.

Mazi is one of the most slept on players in this draft. Just like Tyler was last year.

Watch.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Consensus means nothing. Draft niks prove every year they are clueless.

Mazi is one of the most slept on players in this draft. Just like Tyler was last year.

Watch.

Would you feel exactly the same if he was a Philadelphia Eagle right now?

 

[Ken]

If I had a reason to watch Mazi I might. I only glanced at mazi bc I expected us to go all offense early.

Last year I deep dived Davis after we took White Gorrilla and my takeaway was he was better than Davis lol. He was last year too inspite of our stupidity in trying to get him on the PS.

Last year I looked at all the DE and said Sam was the best one and Travon was not even close to #1 overall...was right about that.

This year...the Giants got one in Hyatt...imo

I don't love either of Philly 1st round picks...sorry

 

[DallasEast]

These discussions make me REALLY miss Rick Gosselin. He put together draft lists from information relayed to him from ACTUAL front offices. Gosselin's lists were the closest representation to true consensus opinions about players, especially the most highly regarded players, among the people handing in their cards.

Player evaluation consensus is essentially flawed among draft gurus. That truth is repeatedly exhibited every single year. Very few receive any input whatsoever of what player a team wants at any stage of a draft. The overwhelming number are exactly the same as Mel Kiper, despite his fame. And observers should feel the same about all of them as this guy did of Kiper:

 

[Proof]

We put nearly all our draft capital into outliers.

Mazi has the worst college production you'll ever see for a 1st round DT. Schoonmaker will be a 25yo rookie in September - I can't remember an older rookie since Hayden Hurst or some BYU guys. Fehoko has the lowest broad jump of any defensive end in a decade, and that's an edge rusher's single most predictive drill.

We are betting heavily against the odds this year, and this draft has a lot of flameout potential.

damn

 

[CouchCoach]

When you have clubs having as few as 9 1st round rated players and the most I saw was 13, sticking with the pick at 26 is not going grab a wow player.

Teams that needed rookies to shine early in the season that were picking in the bottom half of that 1st round might find it tough going.

The fact that two RB's were taken in the top 12 isn't about them, it is about the lack of great talent available in the draft.

This is going to be one of the more interesting rookie classes in a long time and will have some pleasant surprises for some and bitter disappointments for others.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Good draft? Bad draft? Mediocre draft? I have no idea.

The confusion came right from the start when we took a DT. We haven't invested a big asset in the DT position in years. I like the pick. He can stop the run and has enough athleticism that with some coaching and refinement he might developed into a decent pass rusher from the inside.

They talked about the run game in the offseason so I figured OL and TB would be prime targets. Nope. The 2nd round pick was a pure need pick. Don't try to convince me otherwise. When LaPorta and Mayer went off the board at the top of the 2nd, I think they worried no TE would get to them in the 3rd so they grabbed Schoonmaker. Who does little for me. Not impressed, nor do I think it's a terrible pick. Odds are it's another questionable 2nd rounder from this franchise that really has some bad 2nd round picks.

Overshown is an athletic freak. And he makes plays. I have no issues with the pick. Will be interesting to see Quinn use him and Parsons together.

Fehoko? Decent player, not sure we needed him. DE is one place we have bodies. Maybe they envision him as a Tyrone Crawford type that they can use as a 3T?

The trade up for a big, tall but slow DB was peculiar. But Quinn has his mold for DBs and this kid seems to fit. Whatever. Doubt he's anything more than a special teams guy.

I like the kid from UNC and when you read his scouting report, he really seems like a guy that could end up at OG.

The TB? Great story. But he's likely a situational guy, which is fine, especially at that spot in the draft. I think Evans was still on the board, right? I would have taken him. I am not impressed with a top 3 TB depth chart of Pollard, Jones, Davis and this kid sprinkled in.

What to think?

No need to think - this was 100% a needs draft. Not one position wasn't a need, bpa entered into it only to a slight amount on any pick:
Smith? 3 years in a row (at least by NFL ratings) the run defense has been poor to mediocre. Even Jerry knew it had to be addressed.

Schoonmaker? Only 3 TEs on the roster, only 1 was a draftee. McKeon has been a 4th string player, 3rd string and sent to the practice squad. He's a major project player, not somebody you think you can count on to be a starter. Ferguson gets hurt, he's a starter, not good.

Overshown? LVE's had injury problems and is on a 2 year deal now, Parsons is used for pass rushing mostly, they lost Gifford and Cox is a bust. He's got talent, no doubt, but there were other talented LBs available. Pure need.

Fehoko? Lawrence is getting on in age, Fowler is a stop-gap player on a 1 year contract, Gholston is average to a bit better than average, Armstong is on a 2 year deal, if he plays better the next two years he's probably gone to another team, Williams has had his moments but is as yet not an established top player, might not get to a higher level, even if he does, you need depth at the DE spot since it's so critical a position.

Richards? Of course it's a need, essentially if Dallas leaves Smith at LT they don't have a bonafide starting LG. Richards has too many physical shortcomings to be an NFL OT, he'll be moved to guard most likely, so there's your need - LG.

Scott? After Diggs and Gilmore (who'd old for a CB, and not at the same level he has been in the past), you have Lewis coming off a major injury, career dime CB Goodwin and bust Wright. Surprised they waited this long to get a CB, but again, pure need player.

Vaughn? Come on, list the 5-5 NFL running backs who've been successful. Short list. Think he can fill Zeke's blocking shoes or short yardage banging? at 179 lbs? Seems to be he was picked because he's an anomoly, hard to see when he runs behind the line, very quick, but he's not going to ever be a starter. As a short reliever for Pollard, that's about it, but that's a need.

Brooks? Camp body, could be a sleeper due to his limited college production, has size. Ever hear of 4 WR sets? Gotta have the bodies. By the 7th round everyone has lots of negatives, pick 'em, what do you have to lose?

I can hear the teeth gnashing from the "Always pick the bpa" advocates now, sorry guys, they didn't listen to you at all this draft.

But we'll see, maybe it'll work out for the best...

 

[erod]

I'm flummoxed that you're flummoxed. I think we're all flummoxed.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

@Sydla That is a good place to be in terms of coming to an informed conclusion as more information becomes available.

Keep an open mind and see what happens. Cowboys do draft better than most historically.

 

[jaythecowboy]

We put nearly all our draft capital into outliers.

Mazi has the worst college production you'll ever see for a 1st round DT. Schoonmaker will be a 25yo rookie in September - I can't remember an older rookie since Hayden Hurst or some BYU guys. Fehoko has the lowest broad jump of any defensive end in a decade, and that's an edge rusher's single most predictive drill.

We are betting heavily against the odds this year, and this draft has a lot of flameout potential.

They plan for Fehoko to play idl, not edge.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Wonder if Gallimore or Bohanna or both are on the hot seat then.

A couple more names you can add to the list: Dante Fowler Jr. and Chauncey Golston.

They all won't make the 53. Better bring it this summer or you are gone.

I love the competition.