I don't understand how anyone could scam people

Sarek

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as I stated before it starts with self accountability, actually having decent human morals (having faith is typically helpful but in extreme cases there are those who abuse a system of whatever religion), and good parental (mother and a father) guidance. That will trickle down to everything this world has tI offer.

My other argument presented things we can do now to help with those effects that can happen down the line.
Now that you have no more to go on you wish to go back to the beginning and start over. I read what you had to say and i found it insufficient, there is no need for me to repeat this exercise. I only hope you never have the oppurtunity to judge another in a critical situation, for that person could end up who knows where and for who knows what.
 

DallasEast

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There is no complete deterrent. However, harsh punishment severely curtails criminal activity. I know people in this country like to argue against that, but history says otherwise. An example would be the Saudi Arabia, where they take hands for stealing. You can leave stuff laying out in the open and no one will touch it.
Your criminal deterrent example is based on a severely conservative culture. My further elaborating on cultural differences would most likely violate site rule #6, so I will refrain.

Needless to say, a radical (I am using the literal sense) change in American societal norms would be required before adoption of such deterrents would ever materialize. Excluding psychologically related criminal activity, most (not all) crimes are committed due to societal inequities. Logically, the improvement of societal disparities would decrease criminal activity. It is a realistic concept but it is also one that has never been universally accepted.
 

DallasEast

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BTW, I got another "PayPal" email this morning. I went to PayPal's website and forwarded the email to them. I don't know what good it'll do, but maybe it will prompt them to issue a warning to their customers.
Hopefully, you did not forward a virus-infected email, that will infiltrate PayPal's intranet and blow the whole thing up into smithereens! :laugh:
 

Sarek

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Your criminal deterrent example is based on a severely conservative culture. My further elaborating on cultural differences would most likely violate site rule #6, so I will refrain.

Needless to say, a radical (I am using the literal sense) change in American societal norms would be required before adoption of such deterrents would ever materialize. Excluding psychologically related criminal activity, most (not all) crimes are committed due to societal inequities. Logically, the improvement of societal disparities would decrease criminal activity. It is a realistic concept but it is also one that has never been universally accepted.
I believe that in time it will be universally accepted, and i believe automation will speed up that process.
 

InTheZone

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Now that you have no more to go on you wish to go back to the beginning and start over. I read what you had to say and i found it insufficient, there is no need for me to repeat this exercise. I only hope you never have the oppurtunity to judge another in a critical situation, for that person could end up who knows where and for who knows what.
If you dont believe the issue starts and end with each individual I'm not sure how you expect society to better themselves.
 

CouchCoach

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Caveat emptor applies to law, not evil or greed. He was using words like evil and greed which are not as easily understood and are of a very complicated nature.

As far as what world exists, well we are only discussing this world and in this world there are many views as to what is evil and or greedy. I was simply stating that if someone wishes to state someone/something is evil or greedy, well by what means did they come to that conclusion. To me evil and or greedy is anything that looks to take advantage of another whether it is legal or not, or whether it is accepted by this culture or not.

The fact that a statement like one must "read the fine print" exists is a clear indication that evil exists in things that are lawful, but he started heading in a direction that if it's lawful it's not as bad as if it's unlawful, and that is where i dissagreed with him and anyone who agrees with him.
It means "let the buyer beware", which isn't the same as the buyer be aware. It is a warning to the buyer to remain on the skeptical side and if it looks too good to be true, chances are it is.

Greed and evil are not synonymous, neither is an admirable trait but evil is different. Evil is it's own intent and often can be the only gain of it.

I do think you'd get a lot of disagreement on that taking advantage of people is in itself evil, especially if it isn't illegal. That's like discussing the concept of ethics with a lawyer. Ethical and legal have fuzzy lines with some of them, particularly the corporate lawyers I know.

The thread is about how people who scam people, which I consider illegal just by the use of that word, can live with themselves. And I don't understand it either because I have that gene that tells me that's wrong but as we know some don't have that gene in any form. How can some become serial killers?

This thread speaks to a much deeper discussion about the existence of a conscience in some people. Wanna get deeper, the existence of the most mysterious part of human beings, the soul. Does every human being have one? Are there evil souls? How do we explain the heinous acts carried out throughout history against our fellow humans? Hell of a lot more than scamming them.
 

DallasEast

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People who steal are simply greedy. Lets not make it more difficult to understand. For clarification, Im not talking about the most unfortunate underprivileged 3rd world people that steal food.
41 million Americans deal with hunger every day. Even though third world countries are equally important, it is my personal hope America will one day address its own issue. I have zero statistics to back it up but I am almost certain there is a notable percentage of hungry Americans stealing for the simple reward of negating their hunger.
 

Sarek

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If you dont believe the issue starts and end with each individual I'm not sure how you expect society to better themselves.
I expect society to take care of each other as a whole, then and only then do i believe many of these crimes will go away. Will all crime go away, probably not but i am expecting it to go away by 90% or more, and i think thats a pretty good start.
 

DallasEast

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I believe that in time it will be universally accepted, and i believe automation will speed up that process.
Hopefully, we will respect the technology to accomplish that goal. The last thing anyone needs is for SkyNet to become self-aware one day lol.
 

InTheZone

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41 million Americans deal with hunger every day. Even though third world countries are equally important, it is my personal hope America will one day address its own issue. I have zero statistics to back it up but I am almost certain there is a notable percentage of hungry Americans stealing for the simple reward of negating their hunger.
I get that, wasn't saying those people are evil. I left that out since we're comparing needs to wants and this need can be broken down into further discussion on people that decide to live that lifestyle or how they ended up like this. To prevent sidetracking from what we can mostly agree on what's evil vs greedy I didn't want to talk about people who are starving.
 

Sarek

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It means "let the buyer beware", which isn't the same as the buyer be aware. It is a warning to the buyer to remain on the skeptical side and if it looks too good to be true, chances are it is.

Greed and evil are not synonymous, neither is an admirable trait but evil is different. Evil is it's own intent and often can be the only gain of it.

I do think you'd get a lot of disagreement on that taking advantage of people is in itself evil, especially if it isn't illegal. That's like discussing the concept of ethics with a lawyer. Ethical and legal have fuzzy lines with some of them, particularly the corporate lawyers I know.

The thread is about how people who scam people, which I consider illegal just by the use of that word, can live with themselves. And I don't understand it either because I have that gene that tells me that's wrong but as we know some don't have that gene in any form. How can some become serial killers?

This thread speaks to a much deeper discussion about the existence of a conscience in some people. Wanna get deeper, the existence of the most mysterious part of human beings, the soul. Does every human being have one? Are there evil souls? How do we explain the heinous acts carried out throughout history against our fellow humans? Hell of a lot more than scamming them.
This thread is indeed about people who scam other people, and that action is wrong. Why is it happening and how it should be dealt with is the aftermath of the scam and what some here are trying to discuss and fiqure out. I will leve the soul out of it because it will only further complicate a already complicated issue. These crimes were/are commited because of either need or want and that's where the solutions can be found.
 

InTheZone

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I believe that in time it will be universally accepted, and i believe automation will speed up that process.
Are you referring to I,robot, surrogates, or elysium lifestyle? Theres good and bad to take from that. People as a whole will get lazier, large corporations will run the world like none of us can imagine, and instead of people being able to live their life they'd adhere to a new set of rules. We'd be forcing people to live a certain lifestyle rather than giving them a choice to live how they want.
 

Sarek

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Are you referring to I,robot, surrogates, or elysium lifestyle? Theres good and bad to take from that. People as a whole will get lazier, large corporations will run the world like none of us can imagine, and instead of people being able to live their life they'd adhere to a new set of rules. We'd be forcing people to live a certain lifestyle rather than giving them a choice to live how they want.
I'm referring to a world where nothing is expected from you and that which you need and want will be given without any trade or purchase. If certian people wish to become lazy well they will be throwing away a great life for no reason, if they chose that road they will suffer from there own choice and not a choice someone else imposed onto them like the current civilzation we have now.
 

InTheZone

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I expect society to take care of each other as a whole, then and only then do i believe many of these crimes will go away. Will all crime go away, probably not but i am expecting it to go away by 90% or more, and i think thats a pretty good start.
It starts with society only when people correct themselves first. People should strive to better themselves rather than wait for someone to hold their hand.
 

InTheZone

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I'm referring to a world where nothing is expected from you and that which you need and want will be given without any trade or purchase. If certian people wish to become lazy well they will be throwing away a great life for no reason, if they chose that road they will suffer from there own choice and not a choice someone else imposed onto them like the current civilzation we have now.
That utopia you speak of is very dangerous to society and has never worked.
 

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We can start by not teaching children lies like "crime doesn't pay". It only doesn't pay if you get caught and even then the punishment weighed against the commission of the crime might be well worth it. Ask Madoff or Epstein or Putin if crime pays.

In this country, until they develop suitable punishment for crime, not considered crimes of passion, and don't have a different standard for the wealthy, this doesn't get fixed and only worsens. Our system doesn't work and we defend it by saying it's better than others instead of fixing it.

We have the same problem in this country that the Joneses have with the team, it's good enough.
 

Sarek

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It starts with society only when people correct themselves first. People should strive to better themselves rather than wait for someone to hold their hand.
I strive to better myself everyday, for some reason you seem intent on this idea that if things are free that people will not better themselves anymore. Some humans might take that road and they will eventually die off, the rest of us will evolve into greater minds and bodies. Which road will you take is the only question you should be asking.
 

InTheZone

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What i speak of is beyond utopia, and the only danger is the fear you bring into with you.
Its not fear and its proven throughout history to fail. Feel free to keep basing my response as emotion
 
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