I don't understand this logic regarding the Jaylon Smith pick

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My argument from the beginning was that your assertion of 50-50 chance to play this year was based on hot air as are your usual attempts to categorically opine on stuff you clearly know nothing about. Reading Wikipedia and copying and pasting stuff from the Internet does not give any weight to your opinion, though it does continue to make your desperate attempts comical

I've said from the beginning that "we don't know" is the correct approach and that is clearly not fear mongering

So researching facts that are relevant is irrelevant?

Speak for yourself. There is no 'we.'

If there is no setback then the nerve will start firing this summer. Google is better than nothing and that is what you have.

 

[ChooChoo73]

The Zeke pick smells of best player on their board. So does the Jaylon Smith pick. Seems consistent and smart if that's the philosophy in my opinion. I think If they were concerned about the defense so much and someone contributing at a high level day one then they should have used the top pick on a defender.

 

[Echo9]

So the Cowboys got a lot of heat for taking Jaylon Smith, a guy who likely won't be able to contribute this coming season, in the second round. They also got heat for the Zeke pick but let's not get into that. The biggest argument about taking Jaylon Smith is that he won't be able to contribute this coming season, and that we need defensive help now. So am I supposed to believe that a guy like Kevin Dodd for example was gonna be the difference between us winning the Super Bowl, or hell even just the division next season? I don't buy that for a second. He'd probably get like 2-3 sacks and play half the snaps. But I tell you what... a healthy Jaylon Smith very well could make that difference the following season. The guy is essentially a 2017 top 5 pick for us. I personally love the pick and just don't understand the folks complaining about not getting immediate help. The draft is for the FUTURE. And Jaylon could and should be a huge part of our defense moving forward once he gets healthy.

The reason I mention this is because I was listening to 105.3 The Fan in the car and on The Ben & Skin show they were trying to make this argument... saying we should've got the immediate help. Anyone agree with them and if so, why? Just curious

I disagree that the biggest argument was what I bolded above. If it was ONLY about him not playing is 2016, then I understand the risk and I'm ok with the pick. My big problem with it when it happened was the very widespread and overall consensus belief that there was a very good chance that he will NEVER play football again. A different team's medical staff was cited as giving him a 20% chance that he would EVER play again. Twenty percent! Those are kinds of reports that were everywhere leading up to the draft. Spending the 34th pick in the draft on someone who would end up nothing more than an injury settlement 4 out 5 times is a bad choice.

After the draft, the whole story line changes. Although having the doctor who did the surgery be the Cowboys doctor is comforting, I find that I'm a little skeptical of the sudden change in direction of the overall story of Jaylon Smith. Now he's ahead of schedule and could even play this year. If I believed these stores in 100% recovery on the horizon, I'd be doing backflips over this pick. But there was just too much doom and gloom pre-draft for me to buy into the cheese they're selling.

I'm hopeful that the good news is true, but not confident in it. It could be that the Cowboys really knew more than anyone, and really pulled one over. It could also be that someone just couldn't fight back the urge to roll the dice despite the 4-1 odds against and they are now spinning the overly optimistic PR after the fact.

So that's the biggest argument to me.

 

[Kaiser]

A different team's medical staff was cited as giving him a 20% chance that he would EVER play again. Twenty percent! Those are kinds of reports that were everywhere leading up to the draft.

But something you have to consider is that NFL teams have no reason to talk Smith up and every reason to talk him down. If it was a lock that Smith would only miss one year and then be completely healthy he would have been taken in the middle of the first round. Dane Brugler's first draft guide had him listed as the 12th overall prospect before the stories came out that "he may never play again".

NFL teams could have been hoping Smith drops to the 3rd round or later and they would benefit from creating that kind of doubt about him. Given that Dallas has better insight into his medical condition and his brother on the team giving first hand reports, I would go with their opinion. Those kind of whisper campaigns happen every year and are usually the worst case scenario - like Jay Ajayi last year and Ron Leary before that.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Researching something is fine but making self important statements when you don't have the training to interpret that research or the context to know what it means in that specific case, is not. You are basically trying desperately to find any shred that supports your uninformed pre conceived bias.

When this is done to make it sound as if you know what you are talking about (when in fact you are ignorant) and to try and put down another poster (as you were attempting to do in your original post) then that is reprehensible and deserves rebuke. This is your usual schtick. When you don't know what is being discussed, just stay out of it.

In future I would recommend posting about stuff you actually know which I assume will severely curtail your posts to pretty much zero

What have I said that is self-important? The arguments I have made are independent of me and stand on their own. You are tnow trying to make it all about me as if denigrating me somehow invalidates those arguments. I have stated repeatedly I am not an expert.

What is interesting here is that you are making claims of right and wrong about something that you admit you are ignorant towards. What makes you qualified to judge in the first place. Talk of self importance.

Either what I say is right or wrong. Argue the points and not the man. All you do is come across as insecure. Frankly with my misspellings, sentence fragments and the like, what I think of what I write is opposite of what you claim.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

But something you have to consider is that NFL teams have no reason to talk Smith up and every reason to talk him down. If it was a lock that Smith would only miss one year and then be completely healthy he would have been taken in the middle of the first round. Dane Brugler's first draft guide had him listed as the 12th overall prospect before the stories came out that "he may never play again".

NFL teams could have been hoping Smith drops to the 3rd round or later and they would benefit from creating that kind of doubt about him. Given that Dallas has better insight into his medical condition and his brother on the team giving first hand reports, I would go with their opinion. Those kind of whisper campaigns happen every year and are usually the worst case scenario - like Jay Ajayi last year and Ron Leary before that.

I'm a fan of the Jaylon Smith pick, but if they went to his brother, a clearly unbiased source for any information, then they are doing it wrong

 

[visionary]

What have I said that is self-important? The arguments I have made are independent of me and stand on their own. You are tnow trying to make it all about me as if denigrating me somehow invalidates those arguments. I have stated repeatedly I am not an expert.

What is interesting here is that you are making claims of right and wrong about something that you admit you are ignorant towards. What makes you qualified to judge in the first place. Talk of self importance.

Either what I say is right or wrong. Argue the points and not the man. All you do is come across as insecure. Frankly with my misspellings, sentence fragments and the like, what I think of what I write is opposite of what you claim.

Ok, then let's end on a note that both of us can agree on
Hopefully Jaylon heals completely and helps us to win a SB

 

[dallasdave]

That Sir Jones needs a caretaker/advisor.

Blimey

 

[Scandri100]

This guy was the 2nd best player in the draft after Bosa.

 

[Echo9]

But something you have to consider is that NFL teams have no reason to talk Smith up and every reason to talk him down. If it was a lock that Smith would only miss one year and then be completely healthy he would have been taken in the middle of the first round. Dane Brugler's first draft guide had him listed as the 12th overall prospect before the stories came out that "he may never play again".

NFL teams could have been hoping Smith drops to the 3rd round or later and they would benefit from creating that kind of doubt about him. Given that Dallas has better insight into his medical condition and his brother on the team giving first hand reports, I would go with their opinion. Those kind of whisper campaigns happen every year and are usually the worst case scenario - like Jay Ajayi last year and Ron Leary before that.

If it was an intentional whisper campaign and the worst case scenario only, then I'll be thrilled. But at the moment that pick was made, I was stunned based on the information that was out there. It was more than the Jay Ajayi and Ron Leary stories. Neither guy had the "never play a down of football" attached to them. I'd equate the Myles Jack situation to them. This story was one that basically gave the only realistic silver lining as an insurance policy so his life wasn't ruined. I can't remember that last time a such a bad forecast was made.

It could still be BS, it could absolutely be that the Cowboys had the information they needed to know better. My point was that the OP said that the reason people are against the pick is because he won't play in 2016. That is a strawman. The reason people are against the pick is because the pre-draft consensus was that it was more likely that he will never play than it was that he will.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ok, then let's end on a note that both of us can agree on
Hopefully Jaylon heals completely and helps us to win a SB

Once again you abandon your previous arguments. My opinion is not based on hope and I found my takes so self important that when questioned I went to the NIH and doctors for verification instead of grandstanding on myself.

You can give up and pretend that we ended in agreement on something but that is not the case.

 

[Craig]

If there were going bpa, they would have taken jack. The only explanation fir smith is that they think he'll contribute more over 4 year than jack, which i can buy as an argument and am fine with.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If there were going bpa, they would have taken jack. The only explanation fir smith is that they think he'll contribute more over 4 year than jack, which i can buy as an argument and am fine with.

I actually preferred Smith as a LBer. Jack is not that much better in coverage and Smith is the better tackler, at taking on blocks, and as a blitzer.

 

[Craig]

Ill take the athlete with room to learn rather than the guy who already "smarts" his way to success and yet still takes bad angles on guys with college level speed.

 

[visionary]

Once again you abandon your previous arguments. My opinion is not based on hope and I found my takes so self important that when questioned I went to the NIH and doctors for verification instead of grandstanding on myself.

You can give up and pretend that we ended in agreement on something but that is not the case.

Lol, you're a piece of work
I abandoned nothing
That you are "not an expert " does not need to be stated, it is abundantly evident from your opinions

Once again, you have neither the training nor the information (in this case) to interpret the so called "research" you did. So your research and anything based on it is so much flotsam

In your response please answer my 2 earlier questions:

1. Which part of your "research" states that Jaylon Smith has a 50-50 chance of playing for the Cowboys this year? And how exactly was that number derived?

2. Please tell us how you were able to examine Jaylon Smith and get access to his medical records which clearly must have formed the basis for your "opinion"

If you cannot answer these then you are nothing more than a gas bag spouting uninformed opinions looking for approval on an Internet forum to make up for god knows what

 

[dallasdave]

But something you have to consider is that NFL teams have no reason to talk Smith up and every reason to talk him down. If it was a lock that Smith would only miss one year and then be completely healthy he would have been taken in the middle of the first round. Dane Brugler's first draft guide had him listed as the 12th overall prospect before the stories came out that "he may never play again".

NFL teams could have been hoping Smith drops to the 3rd round or later and they would benefit from creating that kind of doubt about him. Given that Dallas has better insight into his medical condition and his brother on the team giving first hand reports, I would go with their opinion. Those kind of whisper campaigns happen every year and are usually the worst case scenario - like Jay Ajayi last year and Ron Leary before that.

Well said

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lol, you're a piece of work
I abandoned nothing
That you are "not an expert " does not need to be stated, it is abundantly evident from your opinions

Once again, you have neither the training nor the information (in this case) to interpret the so called "research" you did. So your research and anything based on it is so much flotsam

In your response please answer my 2 earlier questions:

1. Which part of your "research" states that Jaylon Smith has a 50-50 chance of playing for the Cowboys this year? And how exactly was that number derived?

2. Please tell us how you were able to examine Jaylon Smith and get access to his medical records which clearly must have formed the basis for your "opinion"

If you cannot answer these then you are nothing more than a gas bag spouting uninformed opinions looking for approval on an Internet forum to make up for god knows what

Your insults are tiresome. Gas bag? You have no basis but incredulity and repeating the same nonsense over and again despite rebuttal. Gas bag indeed.

My research indicates that barring a setback, his knee will start firing this summer. I listed the facts that drew me to that conclusion which you have never argued beyond to attack my character which is irrelevant particularly after I quoted experts who say the same thing. That is the basis for the 50-50 chance which as I stated was my opinion. All you do is repeat over and over again that we cannot know as if my facts don't invalidate that. Just because you cannot figure it out is not limiting to everyone else.

I am not appealing to authority so your parroting over and over again that I am not an expert is gratuitous nonsense. My arguments stand on their own merit and are corroborated by doctors and the National Institute of Health.

You are not the arbiter of the truth, chachi. Just because you ask questions does not mean that I don't have a point. Again, barring a setback his nerve which we know to already be regening will be finished with it by July. Deal with it.

 

[Kaiser]

If it was an intentional whisper campaign and the worst case scenario only, then I'll be thrilled. But at the moment that pick was made, I was stunned based on the information that was out there. It was more than the Jay Ajayi and Ron Leary stories. Neither guy had the "never play a down of football" attached to them.

I was stunned by the pick too, I had been calling DE at that spot for a long time and the team said they would take one of the two that went in the two picks before them except both were gone. They have said publicly they wanted a DE at 34 and then wanted to trade back up in the late 2nd to pick Jaylon Smith. When both DEs were gone, they just took Smith.

Also a nitpick but Ron Leary had a 3rd round grade by the Cowboys but also had a "never play a down" if his knee went out (its more of a degenerative condition). That is he was generally rated as a 4th or 5th round pick but went undrafted.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ill take the athlete with room to learn rather than the guy who already "smarts" his way to success and yet still takes bad angles on guys with college level speed.

That's not what I saw but whatever.

 

[jterrell]

So the Cowboys got a lot of heat for taking Jaylon Smith, a guy who likely won't be able to contribute this coming season, in the second round. They also got heat for the Zeke pick but let's not get into that. The biggest argument about taking Jaylon Smith is that he won't be able to contribute this coming season, and that we need defensive help now. So am I supposed to believe that a guy like Kevin Dodd for example was gonna be the difference between us winning the Super Bowl, or hell even just the division next season? I don't buy that for a second. He'd probably get like 2-3 sacks and play half the snaps. But I tell you what... a healthy Jaylon Smith very well could make that difference the following season. The guy is essentially a 2017 top 5 pick for us. I personally love the pick and just don't understand the folks complaining about not getting immediate help. The draft is for the FUTURE. And Jaylon could and should be a huge part of our defense moving forward once he gets healthy.

The reason I mention this is because I was listening to 105.3 The Fan in the car and on The Ben & Skin show they were trying to make this argument... saying we should've got the immediate help. Anyone agree with them and if so, why? Just curious

My favorite pick was Jaylon Smith.
To me he was easily a better player than Myles Jack.
Far more physical and with actual tackles. Better going forward after the QB.
Jack was a special athlete that stayed over top of everything but he played like a safety.
Smith was a true linebacker that ran through guys.

Smith is very much like Sean Lee who was also an injury risk guy.
And possibly his heir apparent.

Dallas loves getting the best player at a positional group. Love it or hate it, its become a big part of what they do.
Zeke was clearly the best RB, Smith the best LB. And you got him at 34.

Anyone who drafts to win this year is going to spend a lot of time losing.
You draft for 4-5 year cycles.
I hated the Zeke pick but he'll help this year unless injured.
Smith may not help at all or may help later as the playoffs approach but in either case he looks like a guy in year 2 who could be your best LB if Sean Lee is not 100%.